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| Version | User | Scope of changes |
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| Sep 27 2008, 1:13 PM EDT | Martyrdom | 35 words added, 32 words deleted |
| Aug 23 2008, 1:35 PM EDT | woody100 | 181 words added |
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How do you plan to deal with the inevitable friendly-fire injury or broken limbs in your group? Non-fatal but movement impairing injuries within your survivor network will challenge your morality and ingenuity.
Tell us how you would cope ------
Hillbilly909: I personally have medical traningtraining and suggest a field surgery kit even if it is a home kit it still is better than nothing it should have at least a needle, string, neosporin, hydroginhydrogen peroxide, bandages, and forceps. That could all be included in a pocket kit for immeadiateimmediate treatment and a larger kit could be kept at your base.
lordofwar1: You could always adopt the old soviet policy of "shoot the wounded". Its not nice, but if that horde is catching up...
PercerveringGenocide: Being as I have no medical background, i would hope to find a survivor to join my group that does. Though, I've always thought having an ample supply of bandages/gauze/medical tape/penicillin, etc would be vital to long-term survival. As for the immobile, safety in numbers still applies. A broken leg could at least be put into a splint or some sort of acting brace. An arm could be hoisted upright toward the chest with a bag of almost any kind. The healing process would be slow, and not very efficient, but you'll have to deal. I have a friend paralyzed from the waist down, and if not already undead, I'd figure out a way to keep him with our group. I know it might slow us down, but in extreme situations one will find any way of surviving, that's what I love most about zombie theories. It puts mankind's ultimate one, universal trait: survival.
TonyPro: I am formally trained and licensed in CPR and first aid. I would carry a mouth shield at all times, as if I had to resuscitate someone, I wouldn't want to risk infection by putting my mouth all over people. Tourniquets, splints, antiseptics and bandages would be the only other supplies I would carry.
If someone in my group became physically incapacitated, I would break both their legs...off. That way, if they became infected, they could not become a threat. Unless we were traveling by vehicle, like hell am I going to carry their crippled ass. If I was feeling particularly generous, I'd give them a choice--remove their legs and barricade them well in a room with generous rations and maybe some ammo, or spare them one of my bullets.
AngelaB: I fear losing all humanity to raw survival since it's so hard to get back. Frankly, this is a tough one. So much is situational. For instance, If we have any hope of moving them while they heal, we'll take em. If we can't move them, I'd vote for setting them up in a upper story of a building, barricading it in, and leaving food and water for 3 days plus an attendant/bodyguard. Frequent return visits to see if mobility is possible. If it's beyond our ability to heal, we'll leave it up to the person. Do they want to risk the Z lifestyle or go out with a bang?
roxas33: I pretty much agree with AngelaB
vanrulzz:
Well, for immobile injuries, such as a broken leg, we will hole him/her in a car and drive to the nearest building where it would be barricaded enough to last for the healing process (which is probably already where we are staying) As for gunshot wounds, that's why first aid kits and good mobility are ABSOLUTELY VITAL. If you do not have these you can just say bye-bye to your friend that you accidentally shot.
McSkullcracken: As I have no real experience dealing with any sort of serious injury, I do not know offhand how I would deal with such things; and I fully admit that this leaves me unprepared. Yet another reason to consider possible group mates carefully.
However, in this situation, non-fatal becomes an elastic term. Are any hospitals functioning nearby? Anywhere? If not, what levels of experience, knowledge, and available medical technology and supplies does your group possess or have access to? Simply being punctured by a rusty nail could be considered a fatal injury if you have no way to prevent infection. So for those who contribute to this page after me, please make your hypothetical situation apparent (what level of outbreak, status of medical facilities, know-how of group).
crashdown48: non-movement/immobilizing injuries are a dicey area- would the injury otherwise heal? how could you even tell? what we consider classic sports related knee and lower leg injuries (torn ligaments, sprains, etc) will heal on their own, given enough time and rest, and while they may not make you immobile, they will most certainly reduce your agility, speed, and endurance, providing a potentially more dangerous situation, in which you feel you may be able to move, and thus do not alter your routine or plans to compensate for your injuries. as for injuries in which mobility is not an option, you would have to take into consideration the situation and/or the stronghold you are in, if any. if you find yourself hurt in a fortified area, there is no reason to not hold up and wait for the injury to heal. other members of your party can handle your expeditionary duties (ie- food and resource scavenging, or hunting), while you take over their domestic duties (ie- weapons and equipment maintenance or cooking, anything which you could do in the fortress). If you re on the run, thatsthat's another matter. While it isn't always advisable to use mechanized transportation, you may have no other option, and if you have already worked it into your evacuation plan, it will most likely make no difference if you are hurt or healthy. However, if you are moving under human power, be it walking, biking, or other anything else involving your body and fitness level you are pretty much screwed, and the course of action you take will become very dependant on the size and type of the party you are in, as well as your environment. Unless you have taken the time to fully fortify and secure resources, it is inadvisable to sit-tight. Even if it means carrying less resources and moving slower you must press on until such a time where you can be in a secured, safer area. That being said, you cannot just leave a member of your party behind, unless they really, really deserve it.
Bundy747: AngelaB said it best "I fear losing all humanity to raw survival." When confronted with the issues of trying to save a friend or team member one must keep their cool. Dealing with these situations depends on the injury. First off if any of the injuries involve zombie bites there is only one answer…a shot to the head! Friendly fire is a concern which could best be avoided with a proper attack plan, but as we all know sometimes plans don’t always go…well...as planned. First aid rations such as bandages, gauze, and medical alcohol should be ready at hand if your defense location is a store front. Other than cleaning and dressing the wound and keeping the injured person comfortable would be about all you could do. As far as broken bones go, homemade splints would have to do. Survival is the key here, if a friend/team member breaks their leg in the middle of a parking lot while fighting off a zombie horde and they can’t be reached then unfortunately you’ll just have to do the inevitable…leave them. I hate to say it but it’s true…you can’t sacrifice your entire team for one member, nor would I expect anyone to do it for me. However if a rescue is possible make it happen! Remember keep the wounded comfortable, check their condition, and keep your cool. Also it wouldn’t be a good idea traipsing about in a zombie infested city looking for a hospital. It’s just not feasible, the life you save might just be your own!
Crashdown48: Let's also not forget that in the event of a zombie outbreak, the absolute last place anyone would want to be is near a hospital, as infections tend to radiate out of them (although more so at the onset then the later stages).
NMMZKI-If one of my team members got bit or scratched i would have no can but to finish him that would be the only way to unless he got shot by a bullet or cut by a knife or machete would keep him with our trained medical doctors and a squad.Now hereshere's something different like if he fell out of a helicopter or fell when we would were driving fast and the door came open and he fell and got crippled there really nothing to do expect again finish him off the burn his body.So if he got killed by nature or zombies i would burn his body.
twinsword- the only medical experience I have is from playing dark cut and watching world war 2 films, so if I fall on a wooden pole I know how to treat it but if I suffer from any other injuries I'm pretty dead like if i fell out of a chopper i wood probably crawl in to a dark corner and cry ( yeah, I know its pathetic but thatsthat's me)
Rage1Bravo - I have only a small amount of medical training. I have never had to use any of that training in a real world situation, thankfully, however, this is what I think about this topic. Some injured can heal on their own with a little assistance, such as: dislocated joints, some broken bones, cuts , if dressed properly, etc. Other injuries such as badly broken, dis-formed bones, severe hemorraging,hemorrhaging, both internal and external, head injury, etc, unfortunately, need more care and bring up more issues. The best thing to do would be to grab medical books, easy to read lamenslayman terms type stuff, and learn about first aid and immediate trauma care. Think about this, tourniquets save lives, but sometime lose limbs. How far will you go to save life, but at the same time slow mobility and functionality? I am combat lifesaver qualified. It is a one week Army class. It taught me a lot about how to keep someone from bleeding out, or prepare a limb to transport the casualty, and how to keep people breathing and such. However, I know, without a trained and skilled surgeon, even a non-life threatening injury can claim the life of someone. Maybe not immediately, but in the long run, in a survival situation, could someone with one leg do anything? Sure, but not if all hell breaks loose. Lose one to save many, or try to save one and risk losing many? We all have a natural survival instinct built into our brains, however, everyone'severyone is different. Where I am now, save one risk many. Zombie survival situation, I don't know, but if it ever happened, I would know then exactly what to do when it happened.
Residentmagnum.
bullets are an odd thing some say leave it in while others say remove the bullet. this could kill a Friend so I would recommend asking your friend what they want, the wound can be cauterized with a hot metal item to stop the bleeding.
Ladders, wheel barrels, bikes pull trailers, large piece of wood all can become stretchers or operating tables. In all hopes maybe you and your wounded friend found a doctor to help you.
Not all bites are fatal; snake bite carry anti-venom
Fall down and need stitches then a lighter, needle and thread to sow it up along with iodine to keep the wound clean
A machete / hack saw should be carried at all if a limb has gang-green then it must be cut off to save the life of a friend
If bitten or mortally wounded it will only be a matter of time. there are three choices. kill your friend, leave him/her for them to change and become an undead, restrain them and hope someone has invented a cure. the best choice would be to kill your friend then to cut off the head.
Update hope it helps
Dmurl5:
Since I am licenced to perform basic first aid (training course), this would not be a problem. My group has already designated people's jobs, and I am the medic/leader. Injuries such as minor-moderate scrapes and gashes could be treated easily, hold it above the head to lessen the blood flow until you can treat it with bandages and tape. Major wounds would require a quick stitch job, nothing to bad. Broken limbs would require someone to carry them or "acquire" a vehicle, as I would never abandon a friend. Unless, of course, this wound involved a zombie bite or other type of infection. We've agreed that the only cure is a shot to the head.
The_Professional
Since I am in college for Medical Assisting I have received training in how to treat broken bones, lacerations, hemorrhages and such. Part of my education required that I became certified in First Aid/CPR through the Red Cross which I did with flying colors. I also received first aid training in harsh conditions through the Boy Scouts, splinting with two sticks and what plants act as healing remedies. In the vent of an outbreak I am confident that I could keep a person mobile long enough to find medical attention or proper supplies. But also I suggest keeping a "Field Kit" ready in your B.O.B. Consisting of ace bandages, splints, gauze wraps and squares, plenty of tape antiseptics and antibiotics, pain medication, blood clotting medicine, forceps and scalpels, sutures, itch/burn relief, etc. Also working in a medical office I know that they have on hand an MEE or Medical Emergency Equipment. This contains everything you would need in almost any emergency and by raiding any hospital you could find the means to replenish your supplies and possibly find more.
Spraymachine: If you want some good informational videos, military manuals, and other stuff about first aid/child birthing/surgery/3rd degree burns (basically past how to apply a band-aid), check out this site Operational Medicine. Be sure to check out the videos, and remember, don't preform any of these things if you are not professionally trained to/Z-day has occurred. My favorite one is how to suture a wound!
Mastermind22: I may not have medical training, but I have read some medical books on diseases, so at least I could diagnose you. In the case of when a friend is injured severely, the only solution would be to end them. Its dark sure, but you need to survive in a zombie apocalypse and a crippled friend would only burden the group. But in the case of minor-medium injuries, I would try to help him/her. Alas, there is no cure for being a zombie. (other than complete death) There is no way in heck I am going to carry someone either, so they carry themselves, someone else who has more compassion carries them, or they stay and turn into a zombie. (or agree to let me or someone else end them)
Hell_Razor: I'm a Combat Lifesaver, so while I can't do open heart surgery I can do basic assessment and treatment of many combat related injuries. Best thing for anybody to do is remember the ABC rule when dealing with a casualty. A - First and foremost is to keep the Airway clear. If the subject is unconscious, his or her tongue may have rolled back and blocked the airway. Tilt the head to prevent this. Be advised that the person may have a spinal injury, so take care when attempting this. B - Breathing, ensure that the airway is clear and the person is breathing normally. C - Circulation. Check for shock by examining capillary refill. Simplest way to do this is to press down on the victims hand and see how long it takes the white spot you left to turn to the natural skin color again. Check for normal pupil dilation as well. Should the victim appear to be going into shock, loosen clothing around the extremities and place them in a cool, dry place. Do not give them food and only small amounts of water. If the victim has a bleeding wound, your first priority is to halt the bleeding. Take a bandage and place direct pressure on the wound. If blood soaks through, place another bandage on top of the original and continue. The vast majority of combat related deaths occur from heavy bleeding, so by keeping that in mind, along with the other basic principles, you should be in half-way decent shape.
Stui: Survival First aid Backpack
1.Band aids, gauze, tape, Ace bandage.
2.Large cotton sheet.
3.Hemostats, penicillin, Morphine.
4.Scalpel. Needle & thread.
5.Rope/cord.
6.Saw, knife ,axe. (amputation)
7.blow torch. (Cauterize)
8.5th of Jack Daniels.
Thrawn5:
I am well trained in first aid (Life guarding, Boy scouting, basic skills of an outdoorsman, equivalent of EMT training) and can apply medical knowledge that you wouldn't have to go to a doctor to find. I will do anything to help a wounded person (as long as they are not Solanum or Rage bite victims). If I had to abandon a wounded person I would leave them with a guide on what to do in their situation, gun, ammo, first aid supplies, and a bit of good luck (I hope).
Biohazardouswithin: Non-fatal injuries is a thin threshold. Every party member that you leave with should be trusted with a firearm. If you're not capable of keeping them with you, or the hordes are too close behind either you can take the responsibility of shooting your counterpart, or he/she can do it themselves. However; if you have enough time, it's always better to not leave a man/woman behind. Preparing the wounds, on the other hand, can be extremely difficult. I would suggest that EVERYONE have some sort of medical training. I've a small amount of training, but one of my planned party is an EMT. So we're prepared.
sweetmarie9: I think some of the ideas for medical backpacks/supplies that have been listed thus far are good. I would add benadrylBenadryl to any medical supply. If a person has an allergic reaction to anything you give them, this may help. If they have a strong allergic reaction, it probably won't do any good, but it's better than nothing. Also, I believe benadrylBenadryl is sometimes used to amplify the effects of painkillers. You should also keep in mind that not all breaks are created equal. A broken wrist or forearm means the limb is useless for a while. A broken bone in the elbow, while it won't heal faster, will often be able to do many normal activities after a couple of weeks. Not all breaks need to be casted, just immobilized. A friend once broke her foot and the doctor said all she needed was a good shoe and to wrap well with bandages. But then, none of this has answered the original question. If I were in a situation where a person was injured by friendly fire, the most important question I think I should be asking is, "Can I safely move this person?" and if I can't, "Are we in a location where we could be attacked?" If the answer to the second question is yes, leaving the person may be the only option. If the injured person is conscious, I'd fill them in on everything and see what they think. The situation is key. It can make the difference between a person being cared for or being left behind.
Tell us how you would cope ------
Hillbilly909: I personally have medical traningtraining and suggest a field surgery kit even if it is a home kit it still is better than nothing it should have at least a needle, string, neosporin, hydroginhydrogen peroxide, bandages, and forceps. That could all be included in a pocket kit for immeadiateimmediate treatment and a larger kit could be kept at your base.
If someone in my group became physically incapacitated, I would break both their legs...off. That way, if they became infected, they could not become a threat. Unless we were traveling by vehicle, like hell am I going to carry their crippled ass. If I was feeling particularly generous, I'd give them a choice--remove their legs and barricade them well in a room with generous rations and maybe some ammo, or spare them one of my bullets.
Well, for immobile injuries, such as a broken leg, we will hole him/her in a car and drive to the nearest building where it would be barricaded enough to last for the healing process (which is probably already where we are staying) As for gunshot wounds, that's why first aid kits and good mobility are ABSOLUTELY VITAL. If you do not have these you can just say bye-bye to your friend that you accidentally shot.
However, in this situation, non-fatal becomes an elastic term. Are any hospitals functioning nearby? Anywhere? If not, what levels of experience, knowledge, and available medical technology and supplies does your group possess or have access to? Simply being punctured by a rusty nail could be considered a fatal injury if you have no way to prevent infection. So for those who contribute to this page after me, please make your hypothetical situation apparent (what level of outbreak, status of medical facilities, know-how of group).
bullets are an odd thing some say leave it in while others say remove the bullet. this could kill a Friend so I would recommend asking your friend what they want, the wound can be cauterized with a hot metal item to stop the bleeding.
Ladders, wheel barrels, bikes pull trailers, large piece of wood all can become stretchers or operating tables. In all hopes maybe you and your wounded friend found a doctor to help you.
Not all bites are fatal; snake bite carry anti-venom
Fall down and need stitches then a lighter, needle and thread to sow it up along with iodine to keep the wound clean
A machete / hack saw should be carried at all if a limb has gang-green then it must be cut off to save the life of a friend
If bitten or mortally wounded it will only be a matter of time. there are three choices. kill your friend, leave him/her for them to change and become an undead, restrain them and hope someone has invented a cure. the best choice would be to kill your friend then to cut off the head.
Update hope it helps
Since I am licenced to perform basic first aid (training course), this would not be a problem. My group has already designated people's jobs, and I am the medic/leader. Injuries such as minor-moderate scrapes and gashes could be treated easily, hold it above the head to lessen the blood flow until you can treat it with bandages and tape. Major wounds would require a quick stitch job, nothing to bad. Broken limbs would require someone to carry them or "acquire" a vehicle, as I would never abandon a friend. Unless, of course, this wound involved a zombie bite or other type of infection. We've agreed that the only cure is a shot to the head.
Since I am in college for Medical Assisting I have received training in how to treat broken bones, lacerations, hemorrhages and such. Part of my education required that I became certified in First Aid/CPR through the Red Cross which I did with flying colors. I also received first aid training in harsh conditions through the Boy Scouts, splinting with two sticks and what plants act as healing remedies. In the vent of an outbreak I am confident that I could keep a person mobile long enough to find medical attention or proper supplies. But also I suggest keeping a "Field Kit" ready in your B.O.B. Consisting of ace bandages, splints, gauze wraps and squares, plenty of tape antiseptics and antibiotics, pain medication, blood clotting medicine, forceps and scalpels, sutures, itch/burn relief, etc. Also working in a medical office I know that they have on hand an MEE or Medical Emergency Equipment. This contains everything you would need in almost any emergency and by raiding any hospital you could find the means to replenish your supplies and possibly find more.
Spraymachine: If you want some good informational videos, military manuals, and other stuff about first aid/child birthing/surgery/3rd degree burns (basically past how to apply a band-aid), check out this site Operational Medicine. Be sure to check out the videos, and remember, don't preform any of these things if you are not professionally trained to/Z-day has occurred. My favorite one is how to suture a wound!
1.Band aids, gauze, tape, Ace bandage.
2.Large cotton sheet.
3.Hemostats, penicillin, Morphine.
4.Scalpel. Needle & thread.
5.Rope/cord.
6.Saw, knife ,axe. (amputation)
7.blow torch. (Cauterize)
8.5th of Jack Daniels.
I am well trained in first aid (Life guarding, Boy scouting, basic skills of an outdoorsman, equivalent of EMT training) and can apply medical knowledge that you wouldn't have to go to a doctor to find. I will do anything to help a wounded person (as long as they are not Solanum or Rage bite victims). If I had to abandon a wounded person I would leave them with a guide on what to do in their situation, gun, ammo, first aid supplies, and a bit of good luck (I hope).
~Jack~:
There are a series of scenarios possible:
Alright, it would depend on the wound. Are they bleeding? Standard first aid should stop the bleeding and once patched up just keep of whatever it was that was bleeding. This can be done as long as we are in a safe place and out of any zombie's reach. If we are in a vulnerable area, move the wounded as quickly as possible and relocate to a safer, defendabledefensible area.
-----
Did they break something? If it is a leg, we can try to hold up for a while in a safe place, put on a splint or two, and give him a crutch or walking stick to lean on. once the pain subsides for the most part. If we are being chased by zombies, we can try to move him to a safe place, that is assuming we can get to him on time.
If it an arm, splint and sling it. a pistol is a good weapon for a one-armed person.
-----
If the person or a limb of a person pinned under something? can we move that something? Are we being followed by zombies?
1) Try to save the person/limb by moving the object.
2) If not able to move the object without mechanical advantage, look for something that will help.
3) if moving is impossible, consider amputation.
4) if zombies are really really close, assume team member dead and ask the following question:
"You want us to kill you now, or do you want to fight it out?"
-----
Now, is the team member unconcious?unconscious? If so, I would try to carry them to a safer location and attend them until they regain conciousness.consciousness. Killing them is out of the question for me.
-----
If the injury is serious enough that the person cannot move or be moved for a long time, try to treat the injury the best you can and stay put. If zombies are near, assume the team member already dead and ask the following question:
"Should we kill you now, or do you want to try and fight it out?"
Conclusion: I would try and help the team member the best I can until they heal, or until I have no choice but to leave. If they want to fight it out when I am forced to leave them, I will try to leave something that they can use (Pistol, ammo, and medical supplies if they live through it they can treat themselves.
woody100:
i agree that this cant always be looked at as help or put down. there is always something better than that.
incaseIn case of a injury that would stop them from keeping up, me us down gretlygreatly i would, and i know this sounds stupid, but i would quickly treat the wound, then use the rope to hoist them to the top of a tree in some big branches, out of reach and most visibility, then either take out the mob from far distance then comeback to my team mate or distract the z'szombies, run off and comebakcomeback for my freindfriend tomorowtomorrow
ifIf theyrethey're bleeding or cutcut, they just have to keep running like hell,hell. idI would pump painkillers into them so they can keep up.
ifIf its really impossible to save them before zombies arrive i would shove some strong liqourliquor down there throats (id(I would have a bottle of firewater in my makeshift medkit)med-kit) and maybe try and fight it out with the zombies. whileWhile the teammate is either uncoincousunconscious or so out of it that the z'szombies look attractive.
There are a series of scenarios possible:
Alright, it would depend on the wound. Are they bleeding? Standard first aid should stop the bleeding and once patched up just keep of whatever it was that was bleeding. This can be done as long as we are in a safe place and out of any zombie's reach. If we are in a vulnerable area, move the wounded as quickly as possible and relocate to a safer, defendabledefensible area.
-----
Did they break something? If it is a leg, we can try to hold up for a while in a safe place, put on a splint or two, and give him a crutch or walking stick to lean on. once the pain subsides for the most part. If we are being chased by zombies, we can try to move him to a safe place, that is assuming we can get to him on time.
If it an arm, splint and sling it. a pistol is a good weapon for a one-armed person.
-----
If the person or a limb of a person pinned under something? can we move that something? Are we being followed by zombies?
1) Try to save the person/limb by moving the object.
2) If not able to move the object without mechanical advantage, look for something that will help.
3) if moving is impossible, consider amputation.
4) if zombies are really really close, assume team member dead and ask the following question:
"You want us to kill you now, or do you want to fight it out?"
-----
Now, is the team member unconcious?unconscious? If so, I would try to carry them to a safer location and attend them until they regain conciousness.consciousness. Killing them is out of the question for me.
-----
If the injury is serious enough that the person cannot move or be moved for a long time, try to treat the injury the best you can and stay put. If zombies are near, assume the team member already dead and ask the following question:
"Should we kill you now, or do you want to try and fight it out?"
Conclusion: I would try and help the team member the best I can until they heal, or until I have no choice but to leave. If they want to fight it out when I am forced to leave them, I will try to leave something that they can use (Pistol, ammo, and medical supplies if they live through it they can treat themselves.
i agree that this cant always be looked at as help or put down. there is always something better than that.
incaseIn case of a injury that would stop them from keeping up, me us down gretlygreatly i would, and i know this sounds stupid, but i would quickly treat the wound, then use the rope to hoist them to the top of a tree in some big branches, out of reach and most visibility, then either take out the mob from far distance then comeback to my team mate or distract the z'szombies, run off and comebakcomeback for my freindfriend tomorowtomorrow
ifIf theyrethey're bleeding or cutcut, they just have to keep running like hell,hell. idI would pump painkillers into them so they can keep up.
ifIf its really impossible to save them before zombies arrive i would shove some strong liqourliquor down there throats (id(I would have a bottle of firewater in my makeshift medkit)med-kit) and maybe try and fight it out with the zombies. whileWhile the teammate is either uncoincousunconscious or so out of it that the z'szombies look attractive.
