Encon speaking here, I've made quite a few contributions to this topic over the last year, but I think this has just become a repository of empty ideas. I think it would benefit everyone if we could actually begin work on the game. There are many free engines available, and it would benefit everyone if we could start soon. We'll need to decide on a engine to use, a theme of the game, and just what kind of game it would be.

I had imagined a MMO, in a 3rd or 1st person mode, in a world perhaps 15-30 years ahead of our own time. It could take place on the east or west coast of America, and in the game the coastlines had become a gigantic urban sprawl of skyscrapers, slums, and industrial zones. I live in Brooklyn, NYC, and I have a image of the game being set in a Manhattan-like world, with skyscrapers containing vital living space, protection, technology, and food. You see, food can be grown in hydroponics, and a large (perhaps 20-story) building could form a enormous farm, while not taking up much space at all, having plants grown in rows vertically. It wouldn't be as clean as normal food ( the city would have air pollution, but the food would be quite edible). The metropolis-es(metropolii?) would have done this in order to reduce costs of shipping, as well as eliminate the carbon emissions of trucks carrying food from rural areas, as said rural areas would have receded deep into the heat of America, making shipping even more costly. The survivors would attempt to hold these buildings, which would than be looted and harvested, with the office buildings providing computers and building materials, as well as housing for survivors(said survivors would live as a group, each receiving a cubicle to live in), you could claim any empty area as your home, buy homes from NPCs or other players, or kill the owner of something and take all their stuff. With the rapid miniaturization of technology, people would be able to communicate over short range wireless networks, receiving charge from solar panels built into carts, backpacks, and even hats. Solar-cars could survive in the outlets of civilization, while the roads in zombie filled areas would need older, gasoline powered cars, to withstand the bumps, rough roads, and to be able to move at night, when the zombies are at their strongest.(Solar cars will slow down as the sun sets, before turning off at dusk. They must be parked before than).

But I digress. We need a consistent set of people, with a few hours a week to work on this. Before someone shuffles my comment to the bottom, I placed it here as the pages and pages of "oh this would be cool" had bogged down the page. We need to get to work.



















We've talked about wanting to get in the Top Ten a fair bit, and I've figured out a way we could do it.

Everyone loves a computer game, especially if it's free. It never gets old.

If we made a free FPS (or RPG) zombie game, including realistic combat based on what we've found on the wiki, and acceptable graphics, we could attract a lot of people to the wiki as registered members. Even if it becomes more than a zombie game and becomes an apocalyptic ruined city game, it'll still attract people.

Halflife 2's Source engine is very modable, and we could possibly (with help from those of us who know programming languages, including myself) make a free game that requires a free account with the wiki, with a section for the game. This could very well power our wiki into the Top Ten.

If you have any brainwaves, or you think the idea is ****, then let me know.

It's going to take lots of work, so here's my basic models for what we could do. If you really want to be active in this, then play (or research) the games Oblivion, Hellgate: London, World of Warcraft and Halflife 2, as I plan to draw from some of their ideas. If you want to add to any dot points, put it in a different colour and put your name down.

--Alternative engine (Existence 2 -Free!)--

"Hey guys,

I stumbled across the wiki earlier and noticed you were busy working on a game. I myself and a my team members are making a game of our own aswell and are also building an engine. Since you didn't have one yet I thought I'd make a post. The engine is still in development and really is W.I.P. (not even sure if we'll be able to support MMO's but seeing how MMO development is extremely tough, I'm not sure if you guys are going for this or just want to do a singleplayer FPS or possibly Co-Op). Having someone else work with the engine would be very refreshing for us as it hopefully gives us a lot of new feedback and such to work with. Anyway, take a look at our website and think about it if you'd like :) The URL is: www.phenomenagames.com

Dean."

---

Gameplay Zombies: Because the Max Brooks zombies are very slow and dimwitted, they don't allow for very exciting gameplay. So we will create our own type of zombie, which poses a challenge to players.

Storyline idea: Massive comet hits Sun, stuffs it up, Sun stops lighting + starts putting out massive radiation. Company on Earth saw comet, creates satellites that imitate sun, makes UV, does Sun's job. Powered by the massive radiation that the Sun puts out. Radiation screws up artificial sun, super freaky radiation kills some people + turns them into Gameplay Zombies. Some people are immune (you!). Maybe try to find a cure?

Storyline idea: Because the Max Brooks 'Solanum' idea creates slow zombies, it doesn't allow for particularly exciting gameplay. Some normal zombies reproduce, 2nd generation zombies are gameplay zombies. Overall task is to find out a cure?

MMOFPSRPG:

• Setting - Large city, based on London, New York, or Tokyo. Needs to be an endless city, as the majority of the game will be set there.
• Classes - Scientist, Mercenary, Survivalist. Scientists are the squishy class, they can utilize technology against the zombie threat, and they could learn to use military vehicles. Mercenaries are the blunt fighting class of the game, they are the most proficient class with guns and vehicles. Survivalists have some knowledge of guns, and they can fortify buildings, or even build new ones, however they are useless with technology.
• Night - This will set our game apart; for one hour, there are zombies in the street, but it's safe (relatively) to leave the settlement if you're armed. Next hour, zombie numbers go up, and they attack settlements in waves. It's possible to go out in these times, but it's very dangerous. Backstory could be that global warming has darkened the skies so much, we don't really know if it's day or not, and some variable makes the zombie hour happen. Maybe sun is gone, world is light by another source, world is in a fast spin. (maybe this set off virus?)
• ---Hillbilly909--- I'm not sure about this idea of the zombies just attacking in waves i think that we should have something like a detection factor that leads to how many zombies attack and how many waves such as the number of people in your group noise and vicinity to a crowded area. Sorry about putting this in the middle of the article but i wasent sure where to put it. 0-0
• Levels - To start with, Level 30 can be the top, which we will expand if necessary.
• Zones - To start with, we can have around 10 'districts', of increasing difficulty for higher levels. Suburbia x 4, CBD x 3, Industrial x 2, Outskirts x 1
• Factions - A few main factions, namely hospitals, mercenary factions, and science labs. Perhaps people can make their own factions?
• Professions - Crafting your own items always makes things more fun, and gives players a sense of belonging. Look at WoW - people depend on enchanters, blacksmiths and leatherworkers to make armor for them at high levels and enhance their items. For the ZSW RPG, I'm thinking of covering armor-crafting, gun-crafting, armor-upgrading, gun-upgrading, accessories (other items), vehicle modification (and at the top, maaaaybe making vehicles), and fortifying buildings.

FPS:

Music: Music in the game will have a dark horror theme and will be composed by Marsden and Quickrace89. More info on this later.


Copy of a letter (well, half of it is) that I sent to jack_of_blades. It's different to the above plan, and it's another proposal that I think would be more fun, and more realistic. *NOTE: I'm trying to organize this into separate pages, so it's easier on the brain. Forgive the messiness.*

Well, most of these MMO's are ill-thought out. Have you ever played EVE Online? If not, I'll outline what's different about it.

As you probably know, most MMO's place players into 'shards' - a copy of the gameworld where up to 2000 players can interact with each other. So, although they say over 10,000,000 people play WoW, you only deal with 400.

EVE is unique in the fact that there are no shards - all players play in the one world simultaneously. However, the game world is absoloutely massive, with over 5,000,000 star systems. Only 2,000,000 are accessible to the public ATM, and with more players, they open up more of the universe.

The trick is that the systems are very easy to create - they are simply just a random number of randomly placed planets, moons and asteroids, of random size, and random appearance (there's 5 or 6 variations on the colours and such). Most of the time there's a random number of enemies, too.

Now, if we used that principal in creating an endless city, we have our game.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Encon- I hate to interject here, but while we have lots of concepts, we still need to actually do this. Is anyone here skilled in coding, artwork, or can afford a server? I am still in junior high school, so I can't help out with much more than basics(I do have some ability with scripting, tho). These are the questions:
Who is funding this? We need members with the money to pay for all this.
Who can work on it? Our members with time do not generally have the skill, and those with the skill do not have the time.
What system are we using? I suggest Gamebryo

Your concepts and ideas are greatly welcomed, but this has been in concept for years. Let's get to work before this turns into vaporware.
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here's my plan: (Thanks for your letter - it cleared my designer's block! =D)

The game will be sorted into zones - to start with, there'll be 10 zones we pay lots of attention to, and countless others that we simply generate and leave. Player will start in one of the important zones, where she will get the gist of the game. Part of this newbie-zone will be where the tutorials happen, and the rest of the zone will have beginner zombies. After this first zone, she gets to a big fort, run by a computer faction.

Player also has the choice of raiding other camps/forts, which will be the major PvP element of the game. So, not only does she have to keep all the zombies out, she has to worry about ******** attacking her.

Player will also be able to use existing buildings to make their fortress - this is most effective. The best existing buildings for forts will be warehouses
in industrial zones, however these will be in limited number (2 per zone, compared to 20 houses in a suburban area). The next down will be suburban
areas, with the occasional house that does a superb job of a fort. There will also be a lot of flora in these areas, so camoflagued forts and camps will
be an option. The worst buildings of all are in commercial areas - these have the most zombies, and most of the buildings are very difficult to defend.
Player can also enter deserted shops, and loot them (however, without a vehicle they can carry very little). This is how Player will get her supplies.
Every three months, these shops will refill, for the purposes of gameplay. An alternative to this will be that whenever Player is killed, all the objects and supplies she has looted will return to the store they were taken from. Although this isn't realistic, unfortunately it's one of the only ways new players can always have access to shops.

Player, if she is advanced enough and has the knowledge (discussed later), can build concrete structures, which can be the best forts in the game, as Player has control over the layout of the fort, so she can make it tactically inpenetrable. Seeing concrete is also very strong, at thicknesses of 3 feet or more it can stop most bullets. Industrial areas will occasionally have cement plants and concrete trucks - while those who have their fort in a warehouse won't need them, they might want to make sure nobody else can get them. This will be another element of PvP.

Player can also steal from other forts, without raiding. This will be quite difficult to do, but it can prove very rewarding. To stop this happening, Player can invest in safes and vaults, which can only be opened by its owner, or by someone with the relevant skills (discussed later).

There will also be NPC forts, which we will reduce as we get more players. These forts have the occassional item of contraband (discussed later), as well as the stuff other players would have.

To limit PvP, there will be a legal system of sorts. The really big forts will be owned by NPC factions and function as cities, where you can buy basic vehicles, some building materials, basic ammunition, basic melee weapons, and basic civilian firearms at premium prices. Player, when she is starting out, can get free accomodation and storage for a few items here. However, these forts are run by the police and such, so many items are prohibited, and cannot be brought in. Also, if Player's fort is destroyed by another player, she will survive most of the time, and if she can get to one of these big forts, the attacker is branded as a criminal, and may not enter the city. The materials and manuals (discussed later) required to build a basic fort will also be available for purchase in some of these large forts, and in the storyline Player will meet a smuggler (criminal?) who advises her to leave the place and build her own fort. This is different in the case of the mercenary; mercenaries will begin the game outside these big forts, and are not allowed to enter them. This is why they have more skills than the other classes.

Items not allowed in these big cities are contraband - this consists of military grade weapons, certain manuals (discussed later), certain ammo types, tools used by the military (eg. Grenades), steroids and amphetamines, et cetera. These can be bought off the black market for high prices, or bought privately from other players.

Because there is one big world and we want it to be realistic, whenever Player dies, all the items she personally carries, depending on what they are, are recirculated. The contraband items can be looted by the attacker, as can all the ammo. Most of the city-purchased items will disappear, as they can be bought from the cities at any time. However, if the fort is overrun by zombies, all the loot is spread amongst the NPC forts, bringing them back into the game. Same deal if the player is killed.

To balance the PvP out, most empty zones will have many zombies in them, and if they are killed off, they will return in an hour. However, if Player is able to kill all of them, she gets an hour of time to set up a fort, loot a shop, or whatever she planned to do. If she does set up a fort, then after the hour is up, zombies will attack in greater numbers, as these zombies are drawn to live humans.

There will be a few Army bases around the city - these can only be reached by travelling across zones, and they are very rare. These bases will have military-grade weapons, lots of ammo (including special ammo like tracers, AP, depleted uranium, etc, as well as .50 cal for machine guns), some military vehicles, and certain manuals. They are also guarded by fanatical Army troops - a group of players will have to team up to take the fort down, and split the findings. However, the weapons found on these bases sell quite well on the black market. These forts may regenerate every 3 months if necessary.

Character development will be similar to Diablo attribute-wise. However, all abilities will be learned from manuals, one-time use items that teach an ability. To use these, Player must have a certain amount of attribute to learn it. Here are a few examples.

Basic Firearm Training
Description: Allows the user to fire and clean handguns and bolt-action rifles to a limited proficiency.
Survivalists and Mercenaries begin the game with this skill.

Basic Automatic Rifle Training
Description: Allows the user to fire and clean automatic rifles to a limited proficiency.
Requires: Marksmanship 20, Intelligence 15, Basic Firearm Training
Mercenaries begin the game with this skill.

Basic Vehicle Training
Description: Allows the user to use basic vehicles to a limited proficiency.
All classes begin the game with this skill.

Advanced Vehicle Training
Description: Allows the user to use basic vehicles with better proficiency.
Survivalists and Mercenaries begin the game with this skill.

Basic Vehicle Repair Training
Description: Allows the user to perform basic repairs on basic vehicles.
Survivalists and Scientists begin the game with this skill.
Requires: Intelligence 25

Military Vehicle Training
Description: Allows the user to use most automobile-based military vehicles.
Requires: Mercenary, Intelligence 25, Advanced Vehicle Training

AK Series Rifle Training
Description: Allows the user to assemble, dismantle, perform basic repairs and attach upgrades to AK-47's, AK-74's, and variants. Also increases user's proficiency in cleaning and firing AK Series Rifles.
Requires: Marksmanship 35, Intelligence 25, Basic Automatic Rifle Training

Firearms can be dismantled into components, where they can be reassembled or used in other weapons. If a gun is not cleaned regularly using one-time cleaning packs (bought in cities), then a component of the gun may break, and it must be disassembled and the part repaired. If it cannot be repaired, a replacement is necessary. High-quality individual parts can be made by gunsmiths, which are compatible with a type of rifle. For example, an upgraded AK-47 barrel cannot be used in an AR-15.

Now, an urgent issue is the zombie transformation. Many MMORPG's have ways for Player to come back to life - WoW has the ghost system, EVE has the clone system. However, we want to make this realistic, but at the same time we don't want Player to lose all her hard work that she put into her character. Maybe every 10 levels, Player is saved, so that if Player dies, she can start again at that level, with all the skills she had. It might be a good idea for her to hide her most valuable items in a hidden safe near her old fort, so she can get there later and retrieve them. However, other players might stumble across this safe and take it, or if it's too close to the fort, the attacker will find it. This will be up to Player, and if another player finds this safe, Player is screwed. This forces Player to hide her belongings well. These safes can have the Player's name put on them, so if another player finds the safe and wishes to return it, it is possible to contact the owner of the safe.

This is just spewing out of my imagination, so if you have any problems with it, please let me know.

Copy of a message I sent to AZ-Terminator001, he asked about weapons factories. Welcome to the credits, Terminator!

"Well, weapon factories can be special events, and the most dedicated guilds (or whatever we call them, forts) can launch an assault on a factory owned by the big fort (like, the city faction). If they manage to take it, gunsmiths and mechanics who are high level can operate the factory, at the beginning only producing civilian ammo and weapons, but eventually producing contraband guns. Thanks dude, I'm posting that. You're on the credits."

Also, you asked about districts. If we do that, we're already placing limits on the size of the world, which means we're going to have to go with shards. I'd like to avoid this. Trust me, I did consider it, but the world needs more games like EVE. And no, I wasn't referring to Sydney, it could be any city. I'd like to keep names out of it. Infact, how's this for a storyline!

It is the year 2525. (if humanity is still alive xD) The world's oceans are now reclaimed ground, and the entire planet is a jungle of skyscrapers, orbital shipyard relays, and industrial buildings. The multitude of democratic nations of the Post-9/11 period exist only in digital recordings - Terra is now ruled by a single corporation, ______. *some crap about the zombies coming into play, and instead of current weapons, they're all futuristic versions of today's weapons, eg. AKS-1337 Kinetics Rifle. Actually, on second thoughts, screw it.*

Anyway, I don't think I covered professions. Without further ado...

Player will be able to learn professions through out the course of the game, through the use of manuals. Vendors for these manuals will start out being in the big city forts, but eventually will be found in random loot. These professions will include: gunsmithing, armor crafting, vehicle modding (and construction), and engineering (building stuff). Secondy, with all this stuff about children being bosses, haven't any of you played BioShock?
Also, how about the main character, at some points of the game, is saved by a mysterious person? Could provide another faction?
Also, how about when you enter outside, if you blew up a building because you felt like it, it remain like that? It seems pretty stupid that you blow up a bridge outside a mission, go back to the fort, return and find the bridge intact?

Backlashx:
I have been thinking about the perfect zombie video game for some time now and have played and beaten all of the above games such as Oblivion, Hellgate: London, World of Warcraft, and Halflife 2 as well as S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl, and Crysis and have chosen what I think are the best elements from each game.

1. I believe that an RPG element added to the FPS is a must to make the story and game itself more in depth and give players the initiative to keep playing just to get to a higher level and be able to use more advanced weapons, armor, etc.

2. I don't think that players should be able to become infected. If it's just a survival game i think that when you die you should just respawn at the nearest safehouse or fort. If your able to become infected it completely destroys the survival element of the game.

3. The item system should be very similar to the one from S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl because it brings into account that what your carrying is heavy and that the more you are carrying the slower you move. The item system also has some other more realistic factors such as you need ammunition for weapons you can't just fire forever like in Hellgate: London.

4. I love the idea of being able to build and fortify buildings which really hasn't been done in a game like this before. The more complex and stronger the barrier the higher a level you have to be to build it.

5. There should be more than just three classes Scientist, Mercenary, Survivalist. I think it would be cool to see these classes as well:
Thief - extremely stealthy the fastest class that can only use civilian or light weapons can sneak into strongholds and steal the more valuable loot even though they cant carry as much
Bandit - can carry larger amounts of loot or items than any other class is a hermit and easily able to customize vehicles

It would also be cool if the scientists could use chemicals to turn a couple of zombies on each other.

6. The black market idea should be a sort of underground where there's sex drugs and gambling everywhere. To take an idea from the movie "Land of the Dead" there should be underground zombie fights as well as different games to do with the undead and gamble some of your loot on.

7. Trading is a large aspect of game play but that doesn't mean that we should get rid of a form of currency. Even though it is unrealistic that there would still be currency after an epidemic in gameplay it evens out the trading system so that everything has a price and can be equally traded with something of the same value.

That's all i have for now I just wanted to say I love the EVE online idea of a massive never ending city and that the story about the little girl is awesome. Just try to keep the story in present day I saw you were throwing around the idea of being in the future just don't. I can't wait for the game I hope that you continue to pursue making this and good luck.

Quickrace89: Alright, to AZ first - I am considering using Euphoria or Source for the game - I understand how good the others are, and trust me, I have considered them, but I feel that one of those two would work. And the guys who made Source would be happy - it's more publicity for them... showing we can make MMO's.

The player being saved by a mysterious character is a little cliche, and I was hoping that the storyline is dictated by the players, not NPC's. That way, it's different from other MMO's, which will be a major selling point.

And you're right about a resetting world - however you can't blow up buildings. With the exception of replenishing shops every 3 months (unfortunately it's gonna be necessary), the world will be permanent.

The mind-zombie, little girl option was a good idea - but again, I'd like to keep the game as light on storyline as possible. Because if Player wants a storyline, she may as well go buy a game. Sure, have a little bit of storyline for before the game, but after that, the plot is SURVIVE. The aim of the game is to get to the top level, get as much stuff as possible, and be powerful. Of course, this may seem boring when compared with WoW, but we'll design this game so that it's a lot more exciting to simply survive.

Now, to Backlashx...

The point of this game is to accumulate stuff, get powerful, and survive. We'll have to design it so it's enjoyable, though. Look at games like Habbo Hotel and Puzzle Pirates - there is no plot to them, yet everyone gets a kick out of owning property. Games like WoW have skillfully combined that with a storyline, and produced their game. All these games work by making Player put value in things that she wouldn't normally. The quality and immersiveness of the game makes Player put more value in these items. For example, I could go into Paint, draw a sword, put underneath it "Sword of Ragnarok's Fury", a list of stats, and voila, I own a magical sword. But I wouldn't actually feel like I owned something. The point is, we make the game good enough so that you really like owning these pixels. And the storyline should be player-defined - this sets it apart from other games. Because, let's face it: we can't compete with big corporations who professionally make games. So, we dodge the areas that they're good at, and excel where they don't.

The thing is, when you die and you respawn, it kind of takes away from the realism of the game. But at the same time, it's no fun when you die and lose everything, and it won't work if your character is gone when you die. EVE has the clone system, which places respawning and keeping your character into your hands, instead of simply rezzing you. The idea is, you can buy a clone, and depending on its quality, when you die you come back as that clone with more of your skills. If you don't buy a clone and you die, EVE provides you with a basic clone. We haven't got the storyline to do that (and we shouldn't), so I propose that every 10 levels, Player is saved. If she dies, she comes back at that level, with all the skills she had at that time. It's simple, and only breaks the realism in a small spot, causing minimal disturbance of the 'atmosphere' of the game. We don't bother explaining it realistically, we just say 'Okay, you're back, try again.'

I've never played Stalker, however I'd like to. Ideally, Player's inventory will be tiny, however throughout the game she will have access to a lot of 'bank space'. If Player is playing the game as a nomad (not making a fort, just travelling around), she will have dramatically less bank space, because she carries all the stuff on her back (again, only a tiny bit) or in her vehicle (quite a bit, however it cannot be secured from theft as easily, and is not as much as a static player's bank space). And, unfortunately, we're going to have to detract a little from reality when it comes to ammo - it'll be a bit cheaper than real life. But, ammo will still be valuable, and if we decide not to use a currency, ammo will become a sort of unofficial currency.

The building and fortifying aspect of the game will be very complex and part of the game - with a massive amount of possibilities, if not infinite. Of course, we can't let Player build a skyscraper...

Classes remind you it's a game - while I'm sure we're going to have more than 3 classes, Bandit is a bit too much like Mercenary. We might be able to work Thief into it, though. And yes, I'm sure Scientists will even be able to use chemicals to make zombies break dance... chemicals will be the central part of their class, to compensate for their lack of strength and accuracy with weapons.

As Mercenaries won't be able to enter the big cities, there will be a sort of criminal underground, an alternate faction. You'll be able to buy better weapons and ammo here, but not as good building materials. It's possible we could introduce smugglers into the underground faction, who sell some of the stuff found in the big forts. (I don't know what else to call them!)

How much is that scope? 100 bullets, special price for you... that might not work. If we do end up using a currency, we could simply use the US dollar, or the Euro.

I'm really glad you're thinking about this - thanks a lot!
_______________________________________________________________________________
Encon:

What I believe would be an excellent idea would be to keep the professions low-tech-ex: players would need "manuals" to create items, much like WoW recipes.Players could make simple items without manuals, for example- Slingshot(weak ranged weapon[one or two damage only], used to launch rocks{Round Stone}[bludgeoning], sharp objects{Shard of Glass}[Piercing] , or light sources[for distraction]to make it you would need {Stick} and {Scrap of Cloth})Torch(Light source, weapon that can do a small amount of damage Ex 1-3 bludgeoning damage, and if lit, and extra one FIRE damage.{Stick},{Scrap of Cloth}and one of {Oil}{kerosene}{gasoline}{alcohol} or any other imaginable flammable liquid) and Club( melee attack weapon(1-6 damage{bludgng] {Thick Branch}) Crafting could be done On-The-Go(anywhere),or, for complex items (guns, bows, etc.) at a Workshop table, which could be found in the newbie area, and at safehouses. Better Tables could be made or found, and would have more tools and help more in construction, and would be needed for higher level items. Crafting(one skill) would then specialize at a certain level into sects, and those sects would have exclusive items, you COULD learn more than one, but leveling other sects than your main one would double the time it takes to level for each (lets say, 10 for a main, than 20 for a secondary, 40 for a tertiary, and so on) Combat would be against zombies of different ages ( fresh zombies would be stronger than almost rotted to the bone zombies, and damage types would vary in effectiveness (chopping a head off is easier than breaking a skull) Players could also create "safehouses" or "holdings" where they could build up their fortresses on unclaimed land. they could do various things, like repairing roads to allow use of the cheaper solar-powered cars, adding housing, making gardens or farms, laying fences, traps, and what-have-you. Workshop tables could be placed in here, as well. Scavenging for supplies would be a semi-usefull part of the game, as items found would be extremly valuble, but rare, and hard to find. The trading system would work with the trading of items, or use of C$. C$ would be "City Cash", and would be a mix of the various types of bills that are circulating through the world. Transportation: Use anything and everything you can. Things with engines will be rare indeed. I want to create a game centered on the players producing all that is needed Silencer17 I think that we should wait till Left 4 Dead comes out, and try to us the AI director, along with Euphoria and Digital molecular matter, and base it around the source engine. Now that's one awesome Engine. Onto the story, I think that there should be about 8 classes (Scientist, Engineer, Soldier, Builder, ETC...), and within those classes, about 6 professions, unique to that class, and they can only choose one (Within soldier: Sniper, Demolitions, Commander, Infantry, Heavy infantry, Scout). Quote & reply Post reply out of found this valuable. Do you find this valuable?

Encon Encon

AZ-Terminator001
Okay, so what we are looking for is:

1. A Hellgate-like skill system, where you can be a jack-of-all-trades, or focus on one class to unlock stuff that only masters of that class can.
2. An EVE-like system,where new parts of the city are unlocked(best word I can think of) every time a certain amount of new members come in.
3. Using as little storyline as possible, focusing more on the player.
4. Using the Source engine
5. A type of post Z-day currency
6. Base classes with specalist classes in each of the main ones (Solider can be broken into: Sniper, Spec-Ops etc.)
7. Alliances/ Guilds (The Zombie setting provides a perfect excuse for these)
8. Dividing the city up into districts.

Oh yeah, for those who said slow zombies aren't fun, ever played Doom 3?
Quickrace89:

Well, I don't really like the idea of districts - it places a limit on the size of the game world, and if we're going to have lots of members all in the one world, we want to be able to keep it as big as possible.

At the moment, I'm drawing up some examples of the small zones in Google Sketchup - I'll have it ready in 24 hours or so.

Skills like Gunsmithing and Armorcrafting will require a workbench - these will be found in the big forts, and can be installed in your fortress (eg. You buy a kit, assemble it in your fort.) Vehicle modification will require a garage as well as a workbench.

I'd like to have as few classes as possible, and the Mercenary will be able to specialize in Sniper, Heavy Weapons, Demolitions, Stealth, etc. I'd like each class to have a unique system and skill setup, so they are really different experiences. The scientist will be really frail, and at the most be able to learn to use basic firearms. However, they are very good with skills, and they can specialize in either Offensive Chemistry (attacking, use chemicals to make zombies attack each other, or dance the can can), Medicine (heal gun wounds, if they get a very small zombie bite, they can clean it), or Composite Chemistry (allows learning of the skills necessary to create carbon-fibre plating, bonus to gun and armor crafting).

______

BIA!: I'd just like to make a small note about the workbench Idea, it kind of reminded me of the Carpentry skill in Runescape(Yeah, I just said Runescape). Perhaps working on the fort could be a group effort, where the members of the fort, depending on there rank and skill levels, could construct their own parts. Some aspects, like repairing a damaged wall, could take multiple people, giving the game even more of a team feel.

Quickrace89: Bingo!

Alicestar: I can see where you are coming from with wanting to make the game as real as possible but people dont want to play flight simulators all day, they want to play GTA vice city, and Halo because they can do things in those games that they cant do in real life like steal cars, beat hookers on streat corners with a crowbar or frag eachother with rocketlaunchers. the same goes for GW an WOW, I dont play GW for its realism, I play it because I can res hordes of undead minions from my enemies dead bodies and slaughter countless more! the point is this, if you make the game real, it sucks and people wont play past the intro. I have seen countless zombie games die before release because they wanted to capture all the realizm. and other zombie games make it because of the crazy or stupid unrealistic qualities that they have in them.
SH-MMOFPS/RPG can be done, i know it can but you really need to cross the lines to do so and make it a sucsess.

Quickrace89: And therein lies the challenge. I agree with you - we need to make it fun to play. We are going to have to make it worth playing, fun, and enjoyable, while keeping it real (minus the HORDES OF ZOMBIES). It must be exciting, addictive, and immersive. Now we've got that out of the way, lets see if it's possible! Lol.

Rhenn: That's right. I am a total Rune Scape fan myself. So my idea for the game is this (hope you'll accept it):
Setting: Make it as large as a country, there are bays, beaches, cities (or just one), and forests. That way, the players the explore more places and the game cannot be that boring. Make sure also that there is a time/day setting for each place so it is fun.
Sounds: Make the sounds a Devil May Cry 3 like, rock plus slow can make it scary, and for purchasing weapons, do the Resident Evil 4 backround music for the typewriter(save zone)
Character Creation: Make the creation idealistic, example, if they are done making their character, make them wear, let us say jeans, a shirt, a jacket and shoes. So, if they earn money they can buy BETTER weapons.
Style: Make it a Rune Scape like game wherein you can see the whole body of the character, then the players have options to change the screen type, like example is the character viewing in Gunz, then on Halo, then on Half Life.
Weapons: Do not be too much high tech!! It is ugly to see zombie hunters to use laser weapons, ewwww.
GamePlay: Make the players call themselves Zombie Hunters. Then make guilds, parties or groups. Then, their Zombie Hunter rank can go up if they level up much, like for example: Private to Four Star General. Do it the army like.
And if the people get bored of hunting zeds, make some places as Safe Points, or where people can hang out and chat, do many jobs (that is right, make jobs exclusive)
Plus, as an added bonus, add special costumes when they participate in events, example, Dante's costume, Vergil's costume, Leon (Resident Evil) costume, Jill (also RE) costume and many others.

Guppy_Dawg:
Um i have read through everyones sugestions and i have come up with ideas and critisism for everyone.
1. I think that if players die they should pay a price like in runescape (yes i said runescape) but not as severe as loosing everything.
2. Servers would be a great idea not much but some to help with overcrowding in the future. i think the servers should be like city of heroes where you go onto a server and you can make like 5 different characters all with there played lvl. city of heroes has like 8 servers and it works great!
3. NOT IN THE FUTURE!!! that would be the stupidest thing ever guys going around in supersuits and lazerbeams! Weapons should be made as they are in modern day. also if they gun is simple like a pistol it should be way easy to find ammo in multitudes, but like a grenade launcher would be extremely difficult to find ammo and they is not that much of it in the world. Why carry a rocket launcher when u have no ammo, i think it would also draw players into the game to actualy find that ammo and have fun with it making them stay in the game and have something to go for.
4. I LOVE the safe idea put your stuff into a safe and theives cant steal it and its always there for your access! awesome!! thanks to whoever put that idea in there! also if you have items in a vehicle those items should be "Set" items so theives cant take them as well.
5. The Game would definatly have to be in 3rd person so you could see if zeds were coming up behind u, i think vehicles should be the same way...scratch that i still think 3rd person would be great. a GRAW format for that would do great cuz u cant really see behind u but you still see your whole character
6. Character Creation is KEY!! if you don't have a very wide veriety of clothing and gear for the character people won't want to play. also people would look too much alike. i just love to make a custom character that no one else has it brings me joy in so many different ways :D!!!!
7. Chat Tables would be cool go and get yourself a cup of joe from that old coffee machine that you found and sit down and have a convo with your friend about the day. maybe not but instead you NEED to use the chat from city of heroes, you can chat local, broadcast, supergroup, tell (instant messaging freind), team!, and others cant think of right now.
8. Special costume idea - ya its from city of heroes but i dont think i like it, you dont want 500 jills walkin round it would get confusing to tell whos who. the idea might make but i dont think it will.
9. GTA IV concept would be great the wide free roam environment with a pick up whatever you want scheme. i like the interaction in that game.
10. TEAM PLAY - team play is critical!! team play should be loose and xp available to everyone in your team even if you didn't kill anyone. team play should be a KEY part in the game.

well that's about it i might have some more to put at the bottom of the list so dont say 10 is last quite yet

Cylon1994
Well to cover publication of this game.
To get to the top of the list on Google you have to have as many links as you can pionting toward that game/page. So you will need as many people as you can to blog about it and write things about it. Reviews are also a good way to get publicity. It doesn't really amtter if the reviews are bad or good just as long as there's a tab for your game. I know a lot of people who don't really listen to others opinion and just do it because they want thier own.

Jesden
1. Guilds... Social interaction is a big part of any game. And I think guilds would represent this. Obviously, call them what you want, but it would then bring in a larger PvP/PvE Element to it. Rival gangs battling it out, only for the victor to be set upon by the hordes of the undead.
2. Weapons. You should bring in weapon classes. Rifle, Pistol, Machine Gun, Heavy Machine Gun, Assault Rifle, Explosives... etc. This would help in making each persons character different. As say you have to put in a certain ammount of points into a weapon class to be able to use it With you having to max out your weapon class to use the best one maybe. This enables people to specialise into that favoured play style.
3. Buildings. This is an idea i got from Dark Age of Camelot and the soon-to-be-released Warhammer Age of Reckoning and Age of Conan. Let Guilds claim an area of land/building. This would be realistic as a group of people would defend one piece of land.
4. Mercenary System. This again, affects guilds. If a person/group wants a task done without a trail leading to them, they put up an annonnymous nottice somewhere in the town, and then a mercenary guild takes out a contract. You would have guilds of people specialising in taking out zombies, or other players, or just looting etc.

thats all for now.



Starwars_zombie:
here are some ideas.

When you are creating an account for the game, you can choose a type you want to start out with(Human or Zombie). Once you have decided on that, you can choose a gender. then choose different classes. After that then you get to choose what the person looks like.

Human classes: Scientist,Military,Survivalist and civilian.

Zombie classes: Infector(This class can infect human players and have speed advantages,can not infect computer players and has health disadvantages.)
Flesh eater(this class can not infect, but can eat(kill) human and computer players,This class has health advantages, this class has speed disadvantages)
Genius(this class is balanced in speed and health and can use simple weapons to kill humans and smash through barricades, this class can not infect but can also eat humans.)

also, there can be computer players around the city that are programmed to constantly shoot at other computer zombies and run around randomly and the computer zombies can be programmed to go around and eat human and computer players.All the computer zombies could be just like the romero zombies.


If a human player gets infected then he or she gets to choose what class of zombie they want to be. then they have ten secs before they turn. once they turn they willl get a bloody apperance and loose all weapons and tools they get a fast turtoriol on how to play as a zombie.

If a human gets killed or eaten by a zombie then they will respawn in another part of the city like a hospital or a military base or something.

If a zombie is killed then they respawn at a graveyard. If a zombie has been killed at least 50 times then they will have the choice to restart as a human on the same acount.
__________________


BIA!:
@ Jesden=

The Guild Idea : Since Quickrace was working off a zone-type idea, I figured I'd put this in to go with your input. Like in WoW( Most of my input will be based off of WoW), theres zones like the Plaguelands which have a control system. While this might not work if there ends up being a whole lot of Guilds/Alliances/Whatever there called, but the zones of Eastern and Western Plaguelands are fought over for control by both Alliance and Horde players. Maybe there could be specific zones in the game where the PvP element is brought in by the "Gangs" fighting over the zones. When one group takes a majority of control, the zone is labeled as theres and they can begin to build in it. If another "gang" fights and defeats the original victor "gang", they take control and can either claim the fort as theres or destroy it and leave, or rebuild another fort there. That way, it will almost be impossible for a "gang" to always have control, because each "gang" will be fighting over control of these battle zones.

Weapon Class Idea: I like this one a lot, but I'd hate it if everyone could use each weapon and such. Just like seeing a Scientist wearing full-on kevlar carrying a rocket launcher, I think that would take away from game classes. Maybe if certain player classes could learn the different weapon classes ( Just like in WoW, how mages and warlocks can use wands, but only wear cloth armor), then that would create the difficulty and the "Rock Paper Scissors" concept ( Haha, I just made up that name for it). By that I mean how a Scout* can kill a Scientist* by sneaking up and doing lots of damage, but a Soldier* could defeat the Scout* easily in a melee fight. Even then, from a distance the Scientist* would be able to destroy the Soldier* with a myriad of chemicals before he even got close. This would keep the PvP in an everlasting loop and no one class would be supreme, making it much more fun.

Buildings Idea: As I reread this, I realized that it was the exact same concept I was talking about in in the first paragraph. I love this idea and would love to see it.

Mercencary Idea: Sort of like a Hit List? I think I understand. You mean having a mission that one "gang" doesn't want to do, so they put out a notice that they want it done and another group can complete it for some kind of reward? Please, message me if this is wrong or respond to it on here, it sounds like a cool idea and I'd love to hear more about it. :D
BIA!:
Edit: If I'm understanding it right, there might be something in a zombie-filled zone called a " Word Wall", where people can go and post missions and information, and others can go to grab missions and post there own stuff. When clicked it would pop-up something sort of like a Forum, and it has a version in each of the zombie zones( Zones that cannot be controlled by opposing "gangs") sort of like how the "Auction House" works in WoW, where one is accessible(SP?) in each of the major cities and people can sell and buy items from across the world. Maybe people could even sell stuff there, making it less of a "Word Wall", and more of a small, neutral colony that makes its money by charging for use of the Wall ( it would have to be NPC if its neutral, of course).

@ Starwars_zombie=

Human Class Idea ( I'm going to elaborate on what I'd like to see for each of these): I like the Scientist one, which I would think would be very poor at hand to hand combat and have very low armor capabilites, but be very skilled at long-distance chemical use and maybe small melee weapons that don't require much Hand-to-hand training. The Military one, meaning like a Soldier*, would have skill in all forms of guns, and some training in hand-to-hand ( May not be very realistic compared to Current military because they're trained exstensively in all forms of combat, but keep reading and you'll see why), but not very intelligent and incapable of making chemicals that could aid them in battle. Survivalist I think would be very fun to play, because My idea of it is very skilled in melee combat. Medium intelligence and medium use in forms of guns. Civilian I think would be an almost useless class, unless it had some sort of "Racial Ability" ( Like in WoW for all different races), because most civilians are medium intelligence, medium hand-to-hand combat, almost no gun training. Maybe if Civilians had an increased speed and could do things like create distractions to get away, almost like a "Rogue" in WoW. I think Survivalist is the kind of class that would be reccomended for starters, and for people who have played before or are skilled in MMORPGs(which is what I hope the game will be), then the other classes would fit well.

Zombie Class Idea: I don't think the game is going to have playable zombie classes. While I'm sure there will be multiple types and appearances of zombies, it would cut down on the storyline and gameplay with zombies could think for themselves(as would have to be if the class was playable).

Human Death Idea: I kinda like it, making it not so easy to have someone just die and be safe. Maybe, when they die they don't really die, but just get very low on health and blackout. Then wake-up in a cleared out house(very low on health and ammo, of course), and they find a note from an anonymous person ( I'm thinking of this as I write it, and so far its sounding pretty cool) who says something like " Don't think I saved you cause I'm your friend. I'd just rather have one less zombie to deal with." This anonymous person could become important in the storyline, almost like a non-allied vigilante who watches from rooftops and only interferes in a life or death situation, but otherwise stays in the dark. I can kinda picture shooting zombies, and looking up to see a figure standing on a rooftop a ways away whos watching, but turns and walks away once you look up. Kind of creepy, but kind of cool.

Human Infection Idea: I think what the game is going to end up having ( and don't think any of what I say is law. I'm not even an Admin, just a guy with a lot of ideas) is when a player gets infected, he's going to have some sort of countdown to find a cure, and If he doesn't find it before its finished counting, then he changes and goes on a Z-rampage where the player loses control and can only watch his Ex-toon attempt to infect and kill his friends. If they kill him ( or possibly, once the rampage starts the player could just press a button so they don't have to wait such a long time if his zombie destroys his friends, and then have a maybe 30 second countdown), he spawns in whatever place designated (hopefully in the way above^).

Zombie Death Idea: Once again, I don't think ( And kind of hope not) that zombies will be a playable class. I really believe it will conflict with the storyline and gameplay.

Just some ideas and elaborations, trying to make this game as cool as possible :D.

* = These are the classes I'd like to see in the game, and in NO WAY are the classes that will be in the finale. If any of my ideas make it into the final product, I'll be surprised :D

Quickrace89: Oh lord. I can't keep up with everyone contributing all these good ideas... thanks a lot all!

First, to Rhenn. The city will be endless with infinite amounts of zones. As for music, Marsden and I will write it. It will be very dark, I can tell you now. By default the game will be first-person, however you can swap to third person if you wish. However, there won't be special event costumes and such for Christmas and other important times. Instead, there will be special events in-game where players may be able to acquire specialized guns, or parts for guns. This could also work for vehicles and armor.

Guppy_Dawg. Clearly you haven't read it all, however I like your enthusiasm nonetheless. I'd rather you didn't go calling things 'gay' - homosexuality has nothing to do with this page, and nobody's ideas are 'gay'. You can't just pick up someone's brain in real life, and preferably this game should be realistic as possible, minus all the zombies. I think I have already discussed a respawn system, anyway. I have to stick with the one-world idea, though. That's why the world is endless. You can make more than one character, though! No, I think the wiki agrees that the futuristic idea isn't so great, because it is quite cliche. And, the safes can be broken into, it's just a lot more difficult. I think that's already been discussed, also. To use manuals, you must have a certain level in a stat (eg. Intelligence). To get points to spend on stats, you need to level up. I think we already discussed that, too. And the starter manuals will be shop bought, but the best ones will have to be found. That's the point - you can't see zombies behind you without looking. Zombie sneaks up on you? You have to look out for that kinda stuff. Mind you, they will groan and moan. And don't worry, players will be able to choose how their character looks. Making forts will require skills, and if you just want to shoot zombies, then you won't get too far. Unless you are nomadic. Would you survive in a real life Z-Day without skills? Just shooting zombies? What about cleaning your gun? What about upgrading it? What about repairing it if something stuffs up? Even shooting guns require skills.

I agree entirely with Cylon. On to Jesden... The guilds will be a major part of the game, yes. And guilds can lay claim to pretty much anywhere, but if they don't have the resources to hold it from other players and zombies, then they simply get pushed out. And people will specialize through the use of manuals. Some manuals don't allow other manuals, maybe? And the mercenary idea is very interesting... could be used to start guild wars... Heck, we could be the assassins!

Starwars. I really don't think you should be able to play as a zombie, because zombies do not have free will. And your '50 deaths' idea can be cheated veeeery easily. Please, read the entire article - I think I have an answer to the respawn problem. There will be computer humans, sure, and computer forts, even. They will be one of the ways we recirculate items, if we decide to.

BIA, most factories will be unofficial PvP zones like the Plaguelands, because rival guilds will want to control the factory and create whichever item the factory produces. We could introduce an official interface and system for it. As for building in a zone, I don't think we should label a zone as being in someone's control - if someone decides to build in your zone, you drive over there and mess them up. It should all be unofficial and ruled by the players, not the game mechanics. Maybe it should be all-but-acknowledged by us officially. And you could turn up, drive them out of the fort (using whatever dirty tactics you want to) and steal it, sure. Maybe some players may want to rig their forts to blow, so if someone does take it, it all goes up in smoke, literally. Mwuahahaha. Scientists will not be able to use heavy armor and most weapons. Just like the Clothies idea from WoW.

BIA, the city forts (like the cities in WoW) will have a marketplace system like in WoW, guilds will be able to post missions (unofficially or officially?), and more. Mercenaries (that class) won't be able to enter these forts, and neither will player killers. Instead, they will visit a separate city, where guilds can post missions as well. This will be the criminal city that can be visited by all classes and criminals (or not) alike.
AZ
I feel being rescued by Mystery Man, and him being revealed later in the storyline is a little cliche... preferably there won't be much of a plot or storyline once you're in the game, it all being created by the players themselves. I think I also discussed a respawn idea, too.

Keep it coming guys!

BIA!:
@Quickrace: Yeah, I like the respawn idea you had a lot, I was just providing an alternative. Always good to have options. The mystery man thing might seem a bit too cliche, I agree. I was seeing it in my head a bit different then it really sounded out loud. I don't know whether there's any way to describe the idea any better, and if it sounds cliche it is, so I guess thats a scratch. The rigging the factory idea is b-e-a-utiful. I mean, what better way to screw the other group out of all the time it took to take over the factory, just to watch it explode right before there eyes? Thankfully we'll have the unlimited zones so they'll be more factories, otherwise I wouldn't waste the precious resources. They only thing different is how much the storyline will effect the game. I was really hoping it could be one of the rare MMORPGs that has a valid storyline that aids the game and such. Oh Well, I'll be happy if any of my ideas contribute to the game :D

OH! Almost forgot about the mercenary thing. I like the criminal cities idea, but I'm wondering how different it will end of being from the normal citites. I guess it will have contraband for sale, of course, but not sure what else. Maybe it will be pretty much the same as a normal city, except the excess of criminals? Possible you could discourage low levels from venturing to the criminal cities until they get higher by placing higher level zombies near them, because I figure the criminal cities will be for "quests" and such for higher levels. I still haven't thought of anything about the quest process or the leveling process, but all in do time, I reckon :D

Edit by BIA!: I just thought of one more question I'd stick in before you answered mine, Quick.
Since everyone will be playing on one server, is there going to be multiple starting zones and its just luck of the draw?
Or is every single player gonna start in the same town then work out amongst the endless zones from there?

Quickrace89: I don't know whether I actually wrote this (maybe it didn't make it far enough out of my mind), but this is my idea.

Once you finish the tutorial, you end up in a city, and upon leaving you can travel to a random zone. It's probably very far away, and when one person is sent to a random zone, the next person will be sent to a nearby zone to that, and so on until we feel it's concentrated enough. In this way, you can meet a few players who are nearby. Maybe to start, only a few of the zones (100 to start with) will be accessible, and as player numbers go up, we make more zones available.

Hopefully, people won't rig up FACTORIES to blow. But maybe we should let them... lots of tears and bruises. And the mercenary cities? Maybe you can be attacked in them, if you aren't a mercenary. (by NPC's) And you can't buy from some people if you aren't a mercenary. Who knows...

BIA!: So, the idea is that once the game goes live there would only be like 100 of the random zones, and once you finish the tutorial (which is interactive or just a guide that you read?), your taken to a random beginning zone, and from there you meet the others in your zone. Once your a high enough level you can travel in between the different zones and meet with everyone in the game? I like this concept more than WoW's realm concept, I guess cause you can interact with everyone.

Hmm...will everyone in the game be able to hear each other in the main chat or is it just the chat for the zone? I figure the chat would get extremely crowded if everyone was talking at once, especially once the game grows and more people start playing. Also, when you said earlier that "Mercenaries won't be able to enter the forts. Neither will player killers". Meaning that a person who is flagged for PvP won't be able to go in the city until they un-flag, or will they be permanently flagged and never allowed back in once they've PvP'd?

Quickrace89: Okay, if you commit a "crime" (blow someone's fort up), you get a crime rating. It takes a while for this to die down, but while you have any you can't get in to the good guys' cities. Once you PvP, you get naughty points, but when they wear down to 0, you can go back in. Many players will choose to stay so far in the red that it'd take them a few years before it goes back to 0.

The tutorial is interactive, and you start out in a city. From the city, you are given the option to travel to a random zone. You can travel between zones at any level, and you will have to so you can get supplies.

Dude1307
could we have like npc outopsts where you could buy the basics, no matter what the crime rating is?

Rhenn: Sorry to interrupt, Dude1307, but, can we add some more challenge if some zombies can run for a while (and charge for, let me say 5 minutes? and when it runs it will be 5 steps away from you) or/and make them wield weapons (like guns, shotguns, chainsaws or shovels?) or/and make bosses (like Nemesis or some Resident Evil or custom-made boss) that can randomly appear in a non-safe zone? And, can we make some quests for players to play? It will be fun, right? And, can we have the option to custom-make our forts and guns just like The Sims? Oh, and by the way, please let us all know when the game can be released so we can play,.

Jesden: I think that bosses that just randomly apear would be a bit odd, as there would be no way to regulate it for level, unless you added that to the game mechanic which would be a couple of lines for each boss. I think the instancing idea from WoW would be good. As in, you go into an instance, but if someone else goes in they get their own version etc.

Crime rating seems good, but i think there should be one or two criminal cities, so that people who love pvp arent able to do everything, cause that seems slightly harsh.

I think for death, You could have an idea like this
'A scientist found a way to store a soul upon death. After the heart stops, a few minutes after, your soul is released and you are back to how you were when you died.' You could regulate this by having a a few abilities of yours available for the first minute, and then increase them till you have all of them over time. Obviously ganking would be a problem, but what about turning someone who repeatedly kills the same person/people significantly under his level into a chicken?

Rhenn:
Well, I guess it's pretty good. Well, let's make the "death part" a little bit of detailed, like this (if this is okay) "A Scientist discovered a way to revive you upon death (of course it should be a level higher than 3 so, no other newbie will go alone and face a boss in the night, right? Unless they are really silly) but can only do this to individuals with experience. There is a light beam that comes in the body of the dead person, grabs the soul, and comes into the big satellite full of dummies, then it enters one, and then throws it back, after a few while you're alive again (you can be a ghost for a short time, maybe for five minutes, then go back to your body).
About the storyline, I have an alternate idea: "It all started in a laboratory where a group of scientists wanted to develop a serum that can make us humans have loads of energy and never be tired for a period of time. They tested it on a hamster, but suddenly, the hamster went on rage, went wild, and bit a neck of a scientist, and it turned into a zombie realizing the side effects of testing it on humans can make them violent and carnivorous, but they are senseless and nearly dead, the whole lab was infected, and a serum is sent on a sewer line, which went into different oceans in the whole wide world in which a global event named Happy Water Celebration, knowing that the water is safe, all person drank from each ocean, unluckily, they all turned into zombies, and striked on others that havent drank the water"


Neenight:
To veer off the RPG track, as I am no fan, has anybody considered an RTS. Not an RTS like Age Of Empires or Starcraft where you have to collect resources and build a base out of standard cookie cutter buildings and units. More like Full spectrum warrior (the only game I could think of that used this) where you command a small group of survivors in a Zombie outbreak scenario using the Max Brooks style zombies. You guide the group of survivors gathering supplies, dispatching zombies, helping other survivors (or not helping) and fortifying buildings. Could have different segments where you have to hold a certain location (a building, a park, etc), and others where you have to guide you band of survivors to safety.



BobMcBobbertson:
@BIA: I kind of like the mysterious vigalante idea, but maybe he could just be a random thing that happens in random areas? Kind of like a randomized G-man (for those who haven't played Half-Life 1 or 2, the G-man is this creepy FBI/CIA like guy, who you catch brief glimpses of throughout the game.) It would be kind of fun to see how many people go on hunts to find this mystery person.
There's been talk of vehicles, and I'm a little confused about how they would work. Would vehicles be destructible? Can they run forever, or do they need fuel? Can you carry around passengers/stuff? Can you get carjacked while in a vehicle?
It seems like the in-game currency is still an issue. I propose that the lawful cities/forts/whatever use a random assortment of real-world currency (dollars, yen, euros, pounds, etc.) The underground trading posts/camps/whatever could be strictly bartering (I'll trade my doohicky for your thingamabob), the chief bartering item would be booze and smokes, since these are mercenaries, and they probably like drinking and smoking. A player could use these items too, I guess, but they don't do much good. Drinking gives blurred vision and some health. Where as smoking gives you 5 cool points for every cig you go through, but takes away health (just like MGS!)


Kelkesh12345
I heard discussions of a game engine, I believe the Torque engine might work, but I really dont know too much about it. Either way, here are my ideas.

Death System
Cant have it too extreme, I saw 'save every ten levels'. That seems ridiculous. If we have only 30 levels, that would basically be just plain murderer. Or what if we had no level system at all! What if, we just leveled up skills, as in Engineering, Handgun skill, Rifle Skill, Close Combat, etc. I believe maybe there should be a hospital or NPC Survivor fort made at the beginning of the game in every area where survivors respawn. The ones in the newbie areas could not be ransacked, while ones in other areas can be robbed for medical supplies.

NPC System
It seems like noone wants NPCs, but maybe a few NPC survivors per in-game area. They could be randomly generated and could either be psychotic, hostile, or still sane, neutral. Those few NPC could serve as henchmen and could also act as quests if they are not in the best of health, or just cant fight very well. Maybe fighting through a retirement home only to find one old lady who needs to be brought back to a survivor stronghold. An idea from Dead Rising here, maybe the prisoners have broken out of any of the jails and started using the prison as a stronghold, where illegal trading and the black market could florish.
Also, vigilantes, or undead hunters, NPCs who run through the streets fighting the undead, or aiding human players, who could also act as henchmen.

Zombies
Maybe many variations of zombies, like slow undead in the newbies areas, with undead getting to RAGE zombie speeds later on. This could be due to some event happening in the areas with slow zombies, like its below zero and snowing due to some terrible armageddon style thing.
Also, zombies should VERY tough, so we dont have people just walking through casually slaying zombies.

Barricading
You need barricading. But because most people in online games would rather be out slaying undead then being cooped up in a building, we would need some entertainment for the people inside the barricades, like chess games, books, magazines, an ingame internet which could work as a bulletin board for the game where people could post information. Humans could also discover what happened to cause the undead surge on this ingame internet.

Communication
We could make it so only people within a certain distance hear what you say, we could also have a yell function where everyone in a block would here you, and providing you've picked up a walkie talkie, a walkie talkie function which would work with anyone who has a walkie talkie and is in a 2 mile radius.
rs,
Vehicles
I think we already have covered this enough, and I have nothing to add to this. Vehicles good! But maybe their sound attacts the undead, making it a bad idea to be driving around.

Multiplayer/ MMO/ Singleplayer Debate: We could possibly have 2 versions of the game, a single player variant with a full storyline (possibly including the mysterious character everyone keeps talking about, maybe the people on ZSDW could write the storyline?) and an emphasis on NPCs and finding who is responsible for the zombie outbreak.
The multiplayer would be vaguely MMO-ish, with more of an emphasis on other players, and guilds, clans, things of that nature.

Clevelandhunter23
Kelkesh12345 I like your idea about guilds but lets not call them guilds how about bands instead.
Also what about some kind of uber vehicle you know kind if Dead Reckoning from Land Of The Dead only instead have different kinds like transport version or assault.

Kelkesh12345
Bands, I like that. "My band and I went into the dark house. I was the only one who came out" sounds much better than "My guild and I etc,etc".
Uber Vehicle, maybe for high level characters. Like maybe the highest bands in the game could find a secret military base which is still guarded by soldiers, just their undead. Maybe these undead have strange characteristics like the ability to fire their gun, even if they can't aim. Inside the base could be the (U.N.)dead Reckoning (Get it! U.N. as in the United Nations and UN as UNdead. Sorry...)
But yeah, maybe a Dead Reckoning style vehicle for end-game.

Aerowolf
I think that for music we could (at least in certain parts) use Ronald Jenkees remix of the halloween theme song. (link here, click the song called "halloween remix" on his myspace)
also should there be something like a "sanity meter"?

~Jack~
You know how there will probably be groups of players coming together, some having leaders and such? Well, I suggest that if there is a group numbering higher then... 20, the leader has an option to switch to a look-down RTS format. He will be able to tell the team where to place barricades, where togo, what building to take, etc. It would be like having a classic RTS, only with real people down there playing in FPS perspective along with the RPG feature. That would be awesome to do. Something like this has been done in the Half-life 2 mod "Empires". You guys should look into it. :)

Backlashx
As far as weapons go I know that in real life there aren't just thousands of guns laying around on every street corner so I think that we should have a more elaborate melee weapon system so that you can combine specific objects together to make like a large spear or a shovel with a blade for an edge. This would make the game more realistic because you can just find pretty much anything in a house and convert it into a quick and easy to use weapon

Kelkesh12345
Good idea Backlashx, I was hoping someone would bring it up. I kinda got disappointed with Left 4 Dead when I heard you had no melee weapons, but I will still probably fall in love with that game.
Aerowolf, I think we have music covered, but a Sanity Meter, kinda like a psyche meter? Yeah, we would be kinda stealing it from Clock Tower, but this would be too cool to pass up. Think, ten survivors in an alleyway. A large group of undead begin attacking them. At the beginning of the fight, the survivors are sure and steady, easily capable of winning. But one by one they start dying, reducing the morale, or sanity/psyche of their whole group, causing some to flee, others to start getting twitchy, tired, scared.

Clevelandhunter23
1.I was actually thinking of more of an RE4 over-the-shoulder point of view which would make it easier to see behind you if there's no HUD in the game.

2.For a inventory I was thinking of something like Diablo were cetain things take up a certain amount of room ie. a knife takes up two spaces where as a magazine would take up one and single bullets add up over time.

3.Like someone said above (can't remember name sorry) but the zombies should somewhat evolve I have an idea but its kind of cheezey... radioactive zombies, yes radioactive zombies maybe they infiltrated a nuclear power plant and got to close to the reacter or like in day by day armmagedon they were to close to an A-bomb strike.

Kelkesh12345
I do have an engine we could use. Its not an FPS, but it is an RPG-style engine. Neverwinter Nights. I could build a small mockup game on it within a week. Unfortunetly, the NWN Engine does require you own a copy of the game, which costs roughly $20. I would rather not rely on this since it requires every member to buy a game, but it looks to be a solid backup option. There are many Modern style mods that work quite well...Sorry, just voicing my opnions.
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Encon:
I'm back and contributing to this topic now, and I'd like to say a few things
1. Guns should be prized possessions, but not so rare that seeing one is a celestial event.
2. The same goes for vehicles, but some simple car/powered cart should be found pretty early in the game(maybe a rideable lawnmower(the main Survivor city just found a whole warehouse of them)or a bicycle.
3. This game Will be hard to make. We should start with a 2D game, and make something simple, maybe using Flash.
4. The forts will be constructable, from the ground up, using anything from a building already there, or pitching a few tents in an empty lot, and claiming the land. NPC's should exist, but not too many of them. The game should be Near-Future, so we could have things like Solar-cars, and a few similar things, just nothing too amazing or unbelivable.
5.We could start a beta game, with teh full 3D graphics, just not too much content, the focus would be on killing glitches and improving the engine.
Some items to start off with, in the beta
Melee system, fists to start, and when items are implemented, a Baseball Bat, A Combat Knife, and a Shovel
Ranged System, with a M1911 and an AK-47 to start
Throwing System, with a rock to start, and when AoE is implemented, a M67 grenade or something
Movement and Chat, this comes before anything else, needed for a decent game.
Zombies, as dummies to start, and as real zombies when AI is implemented
Health System, with items to heal it
Other Movement Options, anything other than your feet to use for movement, cars, bikes, trains, planes, whatever can be developed from this.
KEEP IT SIMPLE, at least to start. We need to deal with bugs before we deal with content.

matt_will:
I have a caouple of suggestions that could be used in-game:
1.Hotels: You could have hotel type forts where people enter and pay with in-game currency or an item. These would be player owned (if buildings can be owned) and run. It would basically be a fort a player has made and is using to give people a safe(ish) place to stay. They could stay as long as they want or as long as they can pay. The player/ alliance that controls the building can control the price. To stop alliances exploiting this these places can be raided and destroyed. You need to have at least 2 stories to have a hotel.
2.Road Blocks: Some streets could be blocked of by road blocks. These could be anything from cars, to a wooden wall. Road blocks can be destroyed but depending on how strong the road block you might have to use some explosives (vehicle road blocks) or you could use an axe to make a big enough hole to fit through (wooden walls). Some types of road blocks coud be built by players. No zombies can be found on the other side of the road blocks until a pathway is open to them eg a clear path down an unblocked alleyway.
3.Sewers: You could have enterable sewers which could get you past walls, rubble and other blockages. The sewer walls could be collapsable forcing people to find a different route. Sewers would be narrow and dark so zombies would have an advantage down there.

VehoNex:
I have got a couple of ideas that would be good.

First off, for fortifications and the buildings of forts in areas, I say that you have a separate window pop up, and the player designs said fort. Kind of like a top down RTS game. When the design is complete player would hit submit, sending the file and plan to the server. At the server it would calculate time and material cost. Then the data about time and material cost can be sent back to the player. So it would be a large undertaking left to multiple players to build large forts but one or two can make a shoddly defended house.

For the lag issues, I'd say. Have each 'zone' a seperate server, yes it would increase the download and upload time between zones but would pretty effectivley eliminate lag on the specific zones. Also for a zone that is too populated, there could be a warning system when you try and enter it saying, anything from, there are too many people ahead we can go no further now too The guards on the walls won't let you pass for fear of over crowding.

And death. When one dies in a zombie game reviving back at your camp is a little wierd, I'd say have the Left 4 Dead death system where you are incapacitated, and must be picked up by a freind or to drag yourself back to saftey, and if you die there then you die, and should be forced to start anew. I know that may seem harsh but it is there to keep people from doing reckless runs into Z infested areas of the map, only to get some exp.

Also if you need a semi skilled coder, me and a few of my friends might be up for grabs.


THE316hellhound:
Well I've played a lot of video games throughout the years and it has always been an idea of mine to have a zombie game that plays kinda like GTA or Mercenaries a kind of freeroam game with a large map and some form of currency or somthing to trade for weapons, ammo, clothing, medical supplys, items, vehicles and maby food (but that concept can get a bit time consuming and annoying eg. in the middle of a raid or fight and you die of starvation).

so good other ideas keep up the good work