Location: Strategic Offense and Defense

Discussion: On the note of poisons.Reported This is a featured thread

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Original-Sin
Original-Sin
On the note of poisons.
Jun 18 2008, 11:11 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 18 2008, 11:11 PM EDT
Poisons can be either completly useless, or a giant help in a Zombie infestation. This relys on the fact whether a zombie's heart circulates blood or not. IF it does (which would mean they would bleed if wounded) then any sort of poison could be effective against them. A poison that would normally kill a man should be completly inefective against the zombies even if they do have circulating blood, but if you engineered your own muscle relaxers with everyday medicine it could be a deadly weapons. One of these would contract all the muscles of a Zed and cause them to either slow down or completely collapse, considering they used to be just like us it should in theory work.

Now even if the poisons didnt work on zeds they could still be used on humans if needed.

Any ideas on the subject?
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Keyword tags: defense offense strategy
Biohazardouswithin
Biohazardouswithin
1. RE: On the note of poisons.
Jun 19 2008, 12:36 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 19 2008, 12:36 AM EDT
I'm gonna say that they would be entirely ineffective, because a Zombie isn't alive. It's flesh and cells are all dead, also meaning that the nerves are all dead. There are no responses to pain, or anything else. Poison would be like administering water to a rock. A mobile rock, but a rock regardless.

And if, based on all fictional accounts, the head is the only way to stop them, the heart is useless. If the heart is useless, then it doesn't pump. If it doesn't pump it won't dose out the poison to the rest of the body, and then you're back to step one.
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Original-Sin
Original-Sin
2. RE: On the note of poisons.
Jun 19 2008, 2:52 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 19 2008, 2:52 AM EDT
"I'm gonna say that they would be entirely ineffective, because a Zombie isn't alive. It's flesh and cells are all dead, also meaning that the nerves are all dead. There are no responses to pain, or anything else. Poison would be like administering water to a rock. A mobile rock, but a rock regardless.

And if, based on all fictional accounts, the head is the only way to stop them, the heart is useless. If the heart is useless, then it doesn't pump. If it doesn't pump it won't dose out the poison to the rest of the body, and then you're back to step one."
Well In most zombie movies you will see blood spurt out when shot./slashed. This shows the heart is still functioning slightly, although this might not be true. I wouldnt go as far to say that the flesh/cells are DEAD, in the early stages of infection they should still be up and functioning. I believe like Mr. Brooks, that a zombie isnt a revived human, just an "altered" human (as the most common explanation for zombies is some sort of virus which would only be effective if they were kept alive for it to work otherwise you just have a meat puppet). I honestly dont think poison would work on a zombie, but if you created something that targeted the muscles/brain of a zombie it "could" be very effective...

Im not supporting the idea(it could very well kill you) im just saying its a possibility.
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Dealer_of_undeath
Dealer_of_undeath
3. RE: On the note of poisons.
Jul 1 2008, 1:07 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 1 2008, 1:07 AM EDT
well either way original-sin has a point on the statement of use against other humans. Human society will completely fall apart and thus a defensive counter measure will be useful. But if need be arming people with urban assalt shields and going into a phalanx maybe useful for close quarters combat (without firearms.) The reasoning behind this is that at that range leathal head jabs would be possible with a highly reduced risk of bites. though this is a last ditched effort tactic not to be used unless absolutely needed. Do you find this valuable?    
Dealer_of_undeath
Dealer_of_undeath
4. RE: On the note of poisons.
Jul 1 2008, 1:10 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 1 2008, 1:10 AM EDT
And the second part about the phalanx is for a fight against the zeds. Do you find this valuable?    
Ventanator
Ventanator
5. RE: On the note of poisons.
Jul 1 2008, 3:47 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 1 2008, 3:47 PM EDT
"Poisons can be either completly useless, or a giant help in a Zombie infestation. This relys on the fact whether a zombie's heart circulates blood or not. IF it does (which would mean they would bleed if wounded) then any sort of poison could be effective against them. A poison that would normally kill a man should be completly inefective against the zombies even if they do have circulating blood, but if you engineered your own muscle relaxers with everyday medicine it could be a deadly weapons. One of these would contract all the muscles of a Zed and cause them to either slow down or completely collapse, considering they used to be just like us it should in theory work.

Now even if the poisons didnt work on zeds they could still be used on humans if needed.

Any ideas on the subject?"
Oh hell yeah. I've never thought about muscle relaxers. Shoot a zombie up with some Flexorel and watch him tumble.
It seems like it would work, if it can move its muscles there has to be a way to stop them.

Oh yeah...new ideas are a perculating...
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dooran
dooran
6. RE: On the note of poisons.
Jul 1 2008, 11:18 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 1 2008, 11:18 PM EDT
Well, if you were using poison, you would need to use a neuro-toxin, something that will target the nerves and the brain. This keeps with the "Kill the brain, kill the zombie" motto that seems to keep springing up. Do you find this valuable?    
Ventanator
Ventanator
7. RE: On the note of poisons.
Jul 2 2008, 10:43 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 2 2008, 10:43 AM EDT
"Well, if you were using poison, you would need to use a neuro-toxin, something that will target the nerves and the brain. This keeps with the "Kill the brain, kill the zombie" motto that seems to keep springing up."
It also depends on how a zeds circulatory system and respiratory system works. If they don't breath and their heart doesn't pump, no kind of poison is going to do anything.
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dooran
dooran
8. RE: On the note of poisons.
Jul 2 2008, 9:46 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 2 2008, 9:46 PM EDT
If they don't breathe and their heart doesn't pump, their muscles wouldn't work. But that's another arguement. Do you find this valuable?    
Ventanator
Ventanator
9. RE: On the note of poisons.
Jul 2 2008, 11:18 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 2 2008, 11:18 PM EDT
"If they don't breathe and their heart doesn't pump, their muscles wouldn't work. But that's another arguement."
Toche. However the hell you spell that.
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Happyman0
Happyman0
10. RE: On the note of poisons.
Jul 3 2008, 8:39 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 3 2008, 8:39 PM EDT
I don't think a neurotoxin would do the trick, it'd probably take a rediculous amount considering all the dead nerves. If the heart is beating I'd go for a nercotoxin, if you'll excuse the irony, because it would Kill the heart and brain and you wouldn't have to deal with choppin' paralyzed ones up. You could also tip a bullet with it.

P.S. Nercotoxins are easier to make then neurotoxins
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BIA!
11. RE: On the note of poisons.
Jul 9 2008, 3:12 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 9 2008, 3:12 AM EDT
Maybe...
Using chemo-therapy as a way to immobilize and/or kill zombies?

I'm not very well versed in studying cancer or any sort of radiation, but doesn't cancer create and multiply dead cells? If it does, and this is a long shot, but If the cancer had progressed far enough, (depending on the bodily functions of the zombie), the tumor/s would become so big it would either destroy it or at least immobilize it.

Then again, I've always been a big fan of just clubbing then with a bat. :D
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Andering_J_REDDSON
Andering_J_REDDSON
12. RE: On the note of poisons.
Jul 9 2008, 6:18 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 9 2008, 6:18 AM EDT
…Might I suggest…
Testing the exact OPPOSITE of a muscle relaxer, a tensing agent (although, since I’m not a doctor, I can’t say much more than that)…
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C.Turner
13. RE: On the note of poisons.
Apr 10 2009, 2:22 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 10 2009, 2:22 PM EDT
"I'm gonna say that they would be entirely ineffective, because a Zombie isn't alive. It's flesh and cells are all dead, also meaning that the nerves are all dead. There are no responses to pain, or anything else. Poison would be like administering water to a rock. A mobile rock, but a rock regardless.

And if, based on all fictional accounts, the head is the only way to stop them, the heart is useless. If the heart is useless, then it doesn't pump. If it doesn't pump it won't dose out the poison to the rest of the body, and then you're back to step one."
well there has to be blood pumping or well they coulnt move ya know there needs to be oxygen pumping to the body so well they would be very effecive
and well if you dont agree with that there are chemicals that dont quite agree with water ya know? so zombies are part water so they would burn or freeze depending on the reaction from the inside and man neurotoxins you kill the brain the zombies dead
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z_warrior
14. RE: On the note of poisons.
Aug 30 2009, 2:00 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 30 2009, 2:00 AM EDT
I have an idea about a poison that would be EXTREMELY plentiful and perfect for use against raiders if you are under seige. the poison...zombie blood!

The blood contains the virus which infects the raiders. So you just dip your arrow points in the blood and hit one of them or their water supply. If you hit the water they will die after drinking it and if you hit a person they will turn. Now the raiders are fighting on two fronts giving you the upper hand. Sure it creates more zeds, but zeds are easier to fight then humans because they are predictable. they move in slow, straight lines. After you finish off the raiders, kill the zeds and you are free.
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DevilNuts
DevilNuts
15. RE: On the note of poisons.
Aug 30 2009, 2:38 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 30 2009, 2:38 AM EDT
Are you sure you want to be so close to the substance responsible for the end of the world? Do you find this valuable?    

z_warrior
16. RE: On the note of poisons.
Aug 30 2009, 2:45 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 30 2009, 2:45 AM EDT
"Are you sure you want to be so close to the substance responsible for the end of the world? "
Well not in a "living" zombie (I use the term "living" lightly). But after we kill but before we burn them we can get a small container of the blood. As long as everybody knows that the little plastic cup in the lock box isn't for drinking we should be okay. Like any powerful weapon, or poison in this case, a certain amount of respect is required to handle and use it, but i think that it is well worth the risk to end a siege.
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DevilNuts
DevilNuts
17. RE: On the note of poisons.
Aug 30 2009, 2:49 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 30 2009, 2:49 AM EDT
You know, they could just as easily do the same thing to you. Especially if you give them the idea.

Last thing I would want to do during a zombie apocalypse is create more zombies.
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z_warrior
18. RE: On the note of poisons.
Aug 30 2009, 2:57 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 30 2009, 2:57 AM EDT
"You know, they could just as easily do the same thing to you. Especially if you give them the idea.

Last thing I would want to do during a zombie apocalypse is create more zombies. "
Its a last resort sort of tactic. If you are under siege and on the verge of starving you would do anything to survive. I know that more zombies is bad, but if you have to fight the same number of enemies would you rather fight ones that are able to plan and strategize against you or ones that are predictible.

You can also look at the raiders as the nazis during WWII. Because they were fighting on two fronts, their resources and men were spread too thin and they eventually collapsed. If the attackers suddenly have to play deffense to the zombies you can go on the offensive and crush them. They wouldn't have a fortress to retreat to.
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John_234
John_234
19. RE: On the note of poisons.
Aug 30 2009, 3:02 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 30 2009, 3:02 AM EDT
Regardless of any hypothetical advantages to using the virus itself, I can't imagine most people convincing their group that using said substance is a good thing. Do you find this valuable?    
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