Location: Birthing and Pregnancy in a Zombie world

Discussion: how long to wait?

Keyword tags: BIrth Pregnancy Pregnant

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DustinEchos104
DustinEchos104
how long to wait?
Jun 30 2008, 10:04 AM EDT
brought up on this page was the idea of how long we should wait before we start having kids again after z-day, i know i wouldn't really want to have to take care of my kid while fighting off zombies everyday.

Also, has anyone considered the fact that hard labor with a low protein diet lowers fertility? so maybe waiting won't actually be a problem once we run out of food
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Andering_J_REDDSON
Andering_J_REDDSON
RE: how long to wait?
Jun 30 2008, 2:34 PM EDT
We should start making babies the day AFTER the first fortresses are built. I’d say a few weeks.
Only children, in vast numbers, will permit Humanity to reclaim our planet- Provided the skin jobs can’t (or don’t) procreate as well.
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Original-Sin
Original-Sin
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 4 2008, 6:03 PM EDT
"We should start making babies the day AFTER the first fortresses are built. I’d say a few weeks.
Only children, in vast numbers, will permit Humanity to reclaim our planet- Provided the skin jobs can’t (or don’t) procreate as well."
Indeed. We should start making babies as SOON as we have a SAFE and SECURE enviroment to raise them.. Knocking someone up whilst on the run is a horrible idea. When you have a strong fortress and a good few survivors you should start trying to reproduce as soon as possible. In this case, the children are literally the future. We will be able to raise them to be the perfect survivor, teaching them all about survival techniques and how to combat and kill a ZED flawlesly. They will be raised according to the world we live it, and should turn out perfect.
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Andering_J_REDDSON
Andering_J_REDDSON
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 4 2008, 7:52 PM EDT
"Knocking someone up whilst on the run is a horrible idea."
¿Are you so sure? A pregnant woman can still function as if she were still a virgin until at least the second month.
So ladies, gents- Screw on the run. It’s good for morale and an excellent way to relieve stress

Oh damn, I said that out loud…
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dooran
dooran
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 4 2008, 8:01 PM EDT
But impregnating someone while still on the run assumes that you will be able to establish a safe location within those 2 months. That would be preferable, but what happens if you were unable to do so? Suddenly you've got an increasingly impaired pregnant woman and still no established shelter. You wind up with severly limited relocation ability, and a woman more vulnerable. And if she dies, well, that's one less person capable of continuing humanity. I say that you need to keep women (and children) as safe as possible, and put off the pregnancies until you have a reasonably safe location I jsut don't see the benefit of adding more stress onto an already unimaginably stressful situation. Do you find this valuable?    
Original-Sin
Original-Sin
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 4 2008, 8:27 PM EDT
"But impregnating someone while still on the run assumes that you will be able to establish a safe location within those 2 months. That would be preferable, but what happens if you were unable to do so? Suddenly you've got an increasingly impaired pregnant woman and still no established shelter. You wind up with severly limited relocation ability, and a woman more vulnerable. And if she dies, well, that's one less person capable of continuing humanity. I say that you need to keep women (and children) as safe as possible, and put off the pregnancies until you have a reasonably safe location I jsut don't see the benefit of adding more stress onto an already unimaginably stressful situation."
Thats the point I was trying to get across ^^. Screwing on the run will keep up morale, but make sure you protect yourself when your doing it. I'd save the impregnation for once you have an established shelter. More importantly:

Sex is a mutual agreement. There is a good chance the woman isn't going to want to have intercourse/reproduce with you (not you, people in general). How are you going to break this to them?
"Hey babe, I know we just met after I shot your undead parents in the head when they went after you.. Your still shaken up and in shock and you dont know what the hell is going on... wanna shack up?"
Yeah, I dont think it will go over well.
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Andering_J_REDDSON
Andering_J_REDDSON
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 4 2008, 10:51 PM EDT
Ya, I know- I'm going to Hell for that.
But at least it's the seanic rtoute.
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Original-Sin
Original-Sin
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 4 2008, 11:06 PM EDT
"Ya, I know- I'm going to Hell for that.
But at least it's the seanic rtoute."
Haha, I wouldn't go THAT far. Maybe just pergatory?
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messisbest

messisbest
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 6 2008, 8:01 PM EDT
I agree that sex is a great way to occupy some time and relieve stress. I also think that the timing isn't as important as the ablilty to reproduce. All women that are of age and ability should be protected and well fed so that there is a healthy base with which to restart humanity. (Maybe protect them by having them care for the surviving children. I am a proud modern feminist and would hate to be relegated to watching children while all the men got to go out and kill some zombies, but if it meant I was doing my part to ensure the survival of mankind, I'd gladly turn into supermom.) Do you find this valuable?    
dooran
dooran
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 6 2008, 8:21 PM EDT
Of age? Now what do mean by that? Any female that is physically able to have children? This would require us to do away with the idea that they are unable to deal with having children. I suppose in anyone who can cope with murderous hordes of zombies is capable of dealing with procreation... Or did you jsut mean any woman of some random age like 18 or older? Do you find this valuable?    
Andering_J_REDDSON
Andering_J_REDDSON
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 6 2008, 8:50 PM EDT
…On a related note…
If you can’t find permanent, safe shelter inside of a month and a half, either you’re not looking or not trying, which means you’re lazy, or you set the bar WAY too high, which means you’re an art fuck, or BOTH.

Any building can be built to survive a six-month siege, if you have food, and are willing to sweat a little.
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dooran
dooran
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 6 2008, 9:07 PM EDT
Well, it would be dependant on the persistance and type of zombies you are dealing with. If you've got hordes of runners chasing you consistantly, that will make it really difficult to refit a building to be defendable. The problem isn't just food and effort, but also the question of time. Even if they are shamblers. Do you find this valuable?    
Original-Sin
Original-Sin
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 7 2008, 5:27 AM EDT
"Well, it would be dependant on the persistance and type of zombies you are dealing with. If you've got hordes of runners chasing you consistantly, that will make it really difficult to refit a building to be defendable. The problem isn't just food and effort, but also the question of time. Even if they are shamblers."
Indeed. Think about the time length we are talking about. When the outbreak gets to the point where our homes are no longer safe, then two months are going to be an incredibly long time. Two entire months on the run is sooooo long, it is impossible to even imagine that. So I see what REDDSON is trying to get across, if you have to spend two entire months on the run, your doing SOMETHING WRONG, unless your at the Resident Evil: Extinction point, where if you stop you die, and are forced on the run. Either way though, as soon as you get a fortress established and secured, you should start working towards the future... if yeah know what I mean. :P

Regardless how well you plan out when to concieve, you still have the matter of convincing the future mother to shack up with you.
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messisbest

messisbest
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 7 2008, 8:20 AM EDT
"Of age? Now what do mean by that? Any female that is physically able to have children? This would require us to do away with the idea that they are unable to deal with having children. I suppose in anyone who can cope with murderous hordes of zombies is capable of dealing with procreation... Or did you jsut mean any woman of some random age like 18 or older?"
Well... we all know that very young women aren't mentally capable of handling children, and certain things, like puberty, have to occur before a female can reproduce anyways. So no, I'm not talking about a random number, I'm talking about human physiology and the physical ablilty. Is it just me that pictures society becomming more like a family and banding together to survive? Don't you think that there will be many 'moms and dads' in the communities? Not like now where the rearing of our offspring is left mostly to the singular family units. Like the saying goes, "It takes a village to raise a child".
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dooran
dooran
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 7 2008, 5:26 PM EDT
Yes, it would be based on "physiology and the physical ability" but that could include girls as young as 10 (not really likely to bring a heathy baby...) Does this mean that young teenage girls should be used for reproduction, and the children raised by the community, not jsut the girl herself? Do you find this valuable?    
GothyQT
GothyQT
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 7 2008, 7:12 PM EDT
"I agree that sex is a great way to occupy some time and relieve stress. I also think that the timing isn't as important as the ablilty to reproduce. All women that are of age and ability should be protected and well fed so that there is a healthy base with which to restart humanity. (Maybe protect them by having them care for the surviving children. I am a proud modern feminist and would hate to be relegated to watching children while all the men got to go out and kill some zombies, but if it meant I was doing my part to ensure the survival of mankind, I'd gladly turn into supermom.)"
You don't really sound like a proud modern feminist if you are willing to reduce yourself to a brood cow. I have no intention of spitting out babies before or after Z day. Just because women are capable of giving birth, why is it considered their moral obligation to do so if the planet goes to hell? If any man suggested that I should be kept under lock, forcibly pregnant, and utterly useless, I would certainly find another group to join.
If you have taken any basic biology class you would know that repopulating the earth is a pointless and futile effort, even if all surviving women were forced to be constantly popping out children they could never "repopulate" the earth, although I'm sure the men would love to try. All species, including humans, should naturally find a rate of population growth that fits the biology of the species and the resources in the environment.
Think about a well fortified group of 15 people, 10 men, 5 women. Each woman starts having babies at a constant rate. Assuming none of them breastfeed and enough formula can be obtained to feed the babies without it, they can give birth every 11 months. So at 5 years, assuming that all children and mothers survive childbirth in a non-antiseptic environment without a doctor, unlikely, there are 25 children, most still in diapers. Most of the women are too pregnant and tired to care for them. Leaving resources thin and the men becoming tired and less able to defend the fortress. Then if the fortress is compromised they must move 5 pregnant women, who are unable to defend themselves and 25 children, most of whom will have to be carried. Making it impossible to evacuate quickly and even more unlikely that in an evacuation you could take the supplies you need to set up a new fortress and take care of the children.
Don't try to repopulate the earth, just have sex if you BOTH desire to do so, but only have a baby if it is in a planned and well defended environment.
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dooran
dooran
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 7 2008, 8:11 PM EDT
First, I find it sad that you consider the raising of children as being useless.

Secondly, nobody is suggesting a child every 11 months, but rather that people should have MORE children then they currently consider, over time. HAving 1 child pre couple would lead to population decrease, which will already have decreased significant;y in the event of an outbreak. If people coupled (not necessary to couple, but whatever) and have 6 or 7 children over the course of their reproductive lifetimes, then the population will begin to grow back. In theory, when one looks to the past as a guide, by the final children of the family (#6 or 7) the first is likely grown to adulthood (or at least adolesence) and can be useful.

Finally, the idea that raising children is demeaning is a luxury that has no place in a post-zombie world.
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GothyQT
GothyQT
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 7 2008, 8:59 PM EDT
"First, I find it sad that you consider the raising of children as being useless.

Secondly, nobody is suggesting a child every 11 months, but rather that people should have MORE children then they currently consider, over time. HAving 1 child pre couple would lead to population decrease, which will already have decreased significant;y in the event of an outbreak. If people coupled (not necessary to couple, but whatever) and have 6 or 7 children over the course of their reproductive lifetimes, then the population will begin to grow back. In theory, when one looks to the past as a guide, by the final children of the family (#6 or 7) the first is likely grown to adulthood (or at least adolesence) and can be useful.

Finally, the idea that raising children is demeaning is a luxury that has no place in a post-zombie world."
I didn't say that raising children was useless, i said that attempting to "repopulate" the earth was useless, because it's impossible.
And I was using the extreme as an example. It would be nearly impossible to have that many children, I was trying to illustrate the problems that come with the "repopulate" mentality. As a woman I see it as a major threat to my well being. I see a z world with many more men than women, because as much as i hate to admit it, men are more suited to survival situations. First of all the populations will continue to diminish as even if each woman did have 6-7 children as you suggested they still couldn't replace all those men who would not find a mate, and if all those children of the second generation to find mates within a safe distance, and their children do the same, within 3-4 generations the inbreeding will reach dangerous levels. Also as a woman I wouldn't want to take the risk of being pregnant and giving birth more times than absolutely necessary. In a Z world, with spotty medical resources, almost certain malnutrition, and a toxic environment, any woman who would willing to procreate who manages to do it without killing herself and the child has my utmost respect. I'm just not doing it. To hell with humanity, I wanna LIVE!
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Zyzzogeton
Zyzzogeton
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 7 2008, 10:27 PM EDT
Lol, such a long arguement about sex while being attacked by zombie... Ok I guess I'll have to join in... BANG EM ALL!!! Then when they''re old enough we put them out by themselves for the night like in 300 except with zombies instead of wolves XD 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Andering_J_REDDSON
Andering_J_REDDSON
RE: how long to wait?
Jul 8 2008, 12:02 AM EDT
"...I said that attempting to "repopulate" the earth was useless, because it's impossible."
Actually, it’s NOT. Humanity recovered from another, real, cataclysm a few eons ago that reduced the total human population to- Five thousand.
Yes, world-wide there were only five thousand survivors. If after the rise of the skin jobs there aren’t pockets of 5K here and there, then perhaps we don’t deserve to live…

¿You don’t want children? That’s fine. I’m not ‘into’ rape myself, so you have every right not to have children.
But please, let’s not make this into some sick, perverse political debate.

And Zyzzogeton- That’s both sick, and murderously so. You are OFF the bus.
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