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Andering_J_REDDSON	The “debate” is open Aug 20 2008, 11:54 PM EDT For those of you so cock-sure that the AK is “soooooooooo much better”: 16 (SIXTEEN!) US Marines held out in a house (not a bunker, or fort, or whatever, but a fraking mud hut!) against over 200 (TWO HUNDRED!) insurgents for something like 20 hours in Iraq. Final tally: Marines: 5 Purple Hearts, ZERO permanent routines (KIA). Insurgents: Over 100 KIA, plus the Marines found too many fucking blood trials to even try to sort them out. Tactical Arrangement: Marines: 14 armed with M-16’s and a couple with M-240’s (a weap I had trouble with, though it was ammo, not weap). Insurgents: AK-47’s and RPK’s (belt fed version of the 47). YOU do that math. As for those of you who go on and on (drone, really) about the penetration of the 7.62 vs the 5.56, ¿how many skin jobs do you figure have body armor? I figure, not bloody fucking many. The M-16 is INFINITELY easier to maintain (it’s one pin, bolt, and carrier which are small enough to easily hold in your hand in a tense situation so they don’t get lost, not a flighty pin that’s prone to break, and don’t tell me it can never happen because it did on my SKS, bolt and carrier, and spring, which are hard to hold onto and easy to loose in the middle of the same ‘tense situation’). That alone should make it worth something, but Hell, let’s move on… Now, ¿how exactly do you convert a 7.62MM AK-47 to a say 5.56MM AK-108? Or, right, you DON’T, because it’s a smaller round, and you can’t make the bore smaller, only larger, that’s right, I forgot… Ok, well, ¿how do you convert a 5.56MM AR-Series to a 7.62MM? ¿Maybe, pull two pins, drop the 7.62 upper in, and pop the pins back in? No, no, of COURSE it can’t be THAT simple, because, of course you have to re-bore it an all that… And converting it back again, therefore, must be just as hard, that is to say impossible, as the -47 to -108 conversion, because it’s a SMALLER chamber, ¿right? Post reply 8 out of 17 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: None
SkipNChurch	1. Tactics and tacticians... Aug 21 2008, 1:36 AM EDT Spin a herd of dummies with Ak variants up against some well trained young men who shoot AQR before breakfast, and have no place to retreat, and training/superior tactics/teamwork gonna cause some serious pain to come down on the bad actors. I had Colts 7.62x39 upper, traded in to one in its entirety. Don't know if mag feeding problems, mechanical headaches, ugly design..? Just never fully functioned as it promised to do. Friend OOH has an Oly upper in 762Sov and it runs like the proverbial RookietankOmatic. AR seems to be kicking BGs asses worldwide... "Rifle of Free World" had replaced the FAL in that regard. EOM Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
~Jack~	2. RE: Tactics and tacticians... Aug 21 2008, 9:46 AM EDT The AK-47 is cheap... anyone and everyone can afford it. The ammo is cheap... anyone and everyone can afford it. It is also simple to use and maintain... Why does it have such a good reputation? because it has killed more people then just about any other gun. The reason it has such a high body count, is because more people use it more then any other gun in the world. Why? Refer to the top post. Post reply 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
DaveBall	3. RE: Tactics and tacticians... Aug 21 2008, 10:49 AM EDT Short range I would use ether. I have both and out to 100 yards the AK, is slightly less accurate than my AR. But I installed an adjustable sight on my AK's. But out to 200+ yards I prefer my AR. Price is a motivation for allot of people Ak's start at $200 and up. AR's start at $600 new (as of the last gun show I went to). Mag's. are inexpensive for both (if you go with army surplus $8+$4 for a new spring). AK ammo. is cheep but may not be as readily available after Z-Day. AR ammo. is higher, but will be easier to come across. Mainly because it is the standard military round, and they have Billions of rounds around the U.S. at different bases. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Andering_J_REDDSON	4. RE: Tactics and tacticians... Aug 21 2008, 2:56 PM EDT "Spin a herd of dummies with Ak variants up against some well trained young men who shoot AQR before breakfast, and have no place to retreat, and training/superior tactics/teamwork gonna cause some serious pain to come down on the bad actors." I must object to this part of this comment; The insurg’s (skin jobs) are NOT the “poorly trained, poorly led, poorly equipped farm boys” the media has been portraying them as; The majority of them were Chechnyan’s and Bosnians who’d had combat experience fighting the Russians and Serbs (respectively), and there was at LEAST one confirmed “retired” Iranian militry officer (“observer”) leading them (or directing them; exactly what his function was is being debated). And considering how CLINTON handled the Bosnia-Serbia and Chechnya-Russia conflicts, they were PROBABLY firing American-made bullets. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
~Jack~	5. RE: Tactics and tacticians... Aug 21 2008, 5:26 PM EDT So... I guess this means that the AK-47 is not the best rifle in the best automatic world... Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Andering_J_REDDSON	6. RE: Tactics and tacticians... Aug 21 2008, 6:08 PM EDT If WWIII had been like WWII (which is what Warsaw and NATO had specifically planed around, with the addition of nukes), yes, it would have been a really serious danger. Unfotuantely, WWIII turned out to be single men planting bombs on roadsides and flying planes into building, and using the rifles mostly to cover their escape. Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
SkipNChurch	7. Missed so far news of the OPFOR Aug 21 2008, 6:12 PM EDT "I must object to this part of this comment; The insurg’s (skin jobs) are NOT the “poorly trained, poorly led, poorly equipped farm boys” the media has been portraying them as; The majority of them were Chechnyan’s and Bosnians who’d had combat experience fighting the Russians and Serbs (respectively), and there was at LEAST one confirmed “retired” Iranian militry officer (“observer”) leading them (or directing them; exactly what his function was is being debated). And considering how CLINTON handled the Bosnia-Serbia and Chechnya-Russia conflicts, they were PROBABLY firing American-made bullets." Not unusual that part of world to find people from literally all over the muslim majority countries. Good that uS forces using teamwork and superior use of fortifications and ground were able to save selves and fend off that numerical nightmare. One might figure with large number of guns vs. less guns that the larger group would prevail. Impressed and pleased that those Jarheads held it together and came out First Place Winners. Not sure how to make the post work into an M16 v AkM format, save that the Marines with less "sticks" had considerable more discipline and control, enabling more hits that count. "Allah Willing!!!!!" "BRRrRRrppPPpPPP!" as I've seen some of the ME gents do while firing is not quite as, umm, controlled as a Marine Shooting to Live.. EOM Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
dominickmagas	8. RE: Missed so far news of the OPFOR Aug 21 2008, 6:18 PM EDT i would always pick the M16. If there were both on a table I'd take both, but use the M16 until ammo runs out. The AK gets really hot and sometimes the grips light on fire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c), the barrell moves around, it's really loud, it's heavy as hell, there's a huge kick, unaccurate at longer distances, looks ugly. But, it does have a larger bullet, it's popular, it can take some abuse (also a disadvantage, because people think that they never have to clean it), but overall, th m16 is undisputably the champion. Also, the sights on an AK are innacurate and not precise, indicating it is meant to be used as a spray n' pray gun, where the m16 has precise sights which are easy to use. Also, the m16 has rails for more attachments. The ak does have attachments, but even they are not as good quality as the m16's attachments. m16 all the way. Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Andering_J_REDDSON	9. RE: Missed so far news of the OPFOR Aug 21 2008, 6:35 PM EDT ¿You call THAT a fortification? I call it a trap. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
SkipNChurch	10. RE: Missed so far news of the OPFOR Aug 21 2008, 6:51 PM EDT "¿You call THAT a fortification? I call it a trap." Sometimes when fight comes to us, we gotta deal with whats there.. They did admirably. Don't, even rarely get to pick "the spot" to set up and light off our part of a firefight. EOM Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Andering_J_REDDSON	11. RE: Missed so far news of the OPFOR Aug 21 2008, 7:16 PM EDT Ok. I do bad. I admit. :( Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
red15	12. ak 47 vs m16 Sep 30 2008, 8:31 PM EDT the marines could have beat those guys with slingshots Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
nightcreeper78	13. RE: Tactics and tacticians... Sep 30 2008, 9:35 PM EDT "The AK-47 is cheap... anyone and everyone can afford it. The ammo is cheap... anyone and everyone can afford it. It is also simple to use and maintain... Why does it have such a good reputation? because it has killed more people then just about any other gun. The reason it has such a high body count, is because more people use it more then any other gun in the world. Why? Refer to the top post." The AK has great popularity because the old Soviet Union used to give them away to anyone who supported their plight for communism, along with a million rounds for every weapon...Eventually, as communism declined and these countries and organizations upgraded, these weapons trickled down into the hands of the black market, third world warlords, and militias...Most of these weapons have long since been worn out and in dire need of servicing or repair which they will most likely never recieve...The Soviet strategy for warfare is very much different than the US's...The Soviets use what is called "mass effect"...Mass effect is when they see enemy movement in a sector they don't attack the target itself they target the entire sector with every piece of ordinance at their disposal (removes the need for accuracy)...This type of strategy is extremely costly of resources as opposed to the US's use of controled fire at an individual target with as little as neccessary ordinance to eliminate waste and collateral damage...Repairing AK's are much harder than AR's because AR's are modular in design and when a component becomes unserviceable,that component can be replaced( usually in a matter of minutes) without scrapping the whole weapon...The Kalashnikovs, on the other hand, have rivets and flared pins that must be ground off before the part can even be removed and the rivets and pins are no longer useable...The tolerances of an AK's trunion varies from weapon to weapon...Barrels, gas tubes, and the part of the trunion that the reciever contacts would have to be adjusted by machining before they could be assembled for a reliable function... A shortened AK is a good weapon for building clearance or CQB, but an AR is more of a well rounded weapon, good for more varied task and can be modified by the user as the mission or the situation evolves. Post reply 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
madmortagain	14. RE: Tactics and tacticians... Oct 7 2008, 2:17 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 7 2008, 2:17 PM EDT I believe the M-16 is a more accurate weapon over all. but the AK-47 is much easier to find and purchase. there are semi-auto civilian AK-47s available in a lot of gun shops. I dont really think either gun is all that great though. there are lots of better weapons. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
wixo3	15. RE: The “debate” is open Oct 11 2008, 7:49 PM EDT i understand what your trying to say but Marines are WAY better trained then insurgents Post reply Do you find this valuable?
alicestar	16. RE: The “debate” is open Oct 11 2008, 9:35 PM EDT if you guys are into AK's i have several crates for sale right out of conflict areas....come on, never fired and only dropped once!! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
AgEnT_GrEEn	17. RE: The “debate” is open Oct 11 2008, 10:25 PM EDT "if you guys are into AK's i have several crates for sale right out of conflict areas....come on, never fired and only dropped once!!" I officially laugh out loud at your offer. A crate of AR-15s? I'll have to take a gander then... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
brandon_a_boyer	18. RE: Tactics and tacticians... Oct 11 2008, 11:08 PM EDT "If WWIII had been like WWII (which is what Warsaw and NATO had specifically planed around, with the addition of nukes), yes, it would have been a really serious danger. Unfotuantely, WWIII turned out to be single men planting bombs on roadsides and flying planes into building, and using the rifles mostly to cover their escape." I think that the reason, was a simple lack of tactics on the part of the insurgents. so its not so much the ak's fault as the piss-poor training they receive. Just by sheer numbers the insurgents should have prevailed, fortunetly for the US soliders modern terrorists aren't very smart. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
KillerKitty	19. RE: Tactics and tacticians... Oct 12 2008, 1:18 AM EDT A couple observations I made when I was out shooting yesterday, if this helps anyone: I didn't like the AK's pistol grip when I shot it, it even felt weird when I wasn't shooting it...Also the way you have to rock and tilt the magazine was weird too, but I was good at it anyway...Another thing I noticed to was that if you put RIS on it, it looks rather silly....Dad showed me a picture of one with it and I laughed; it looked goofy... The AR-15....Much nicer. The sights were easier to use, and the mags pop right in....Not to mention I like the way it looks and I could place shot after shot in the same place, the AK? It hits everything but the target, I gave up with it and went back to the AR-15.... Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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