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Discussion: Inaccuracies
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IorekByrnison |
Inaccuracies
Nov 3 2008, 12:46 AM EST
An M1a Socom 2 is available to civilians and it is a battle rifle. Civilians have access to sniper rifles as well. The picture of the SCAR is actually a Magpul Masada, it needs to be changed. If I think of anything else Ill let you know.
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Andering_J_REDDSON |
1. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 4 2008, 12:55 PM EST
The only thing I can address is the caliber of the M-1 SOCOM; At 7.62×51 NATO/.308Win, it is NOT a “battle rifle.” It uses a smaller, intermediate round like assault rifles use.I would, however appreciate if anyone KNOWLEDGEABLE on the subject could clarify the matter; Seems to me, being an M-1 variant, that it would be chambered for the .30 caliber… ¿? Do you find this valuable? |
SkipNChurch |
2. Springfield in 30 cal is..
Nov 4 2008, 1:26 PM EST
..7.62x51NATO/.308 Winchester.It is a semi-auto "clone" of its base rifle, uS M-14 select fire rifle. HTH Do you find this valuable? |
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IorekByrnison |
3. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 4 2008, 7:58 PM EST
I always thought it was classified as a battle rifle. Could you clarify the meaning of the term for me? And also, the M1a family from Springfield shoots the .308, I think, because that's what the M21/m14 fires, which is the base of the design. Perhaps they saw a glitch in the market...?
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IorekByrnison |
4. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 4 2008, 8:01 PM EST
For "Andy?"I know it's not trustworthy, since it came from Wikipedia, but my search for truth continues.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_rifle Do you find this valuable? |
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Andering_J_REDDSON |
5. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 4 2008, 8:34 PM EST
"For "Andy?"Tragically, I too had to turn to them, BUT I verified by other sources the information. It’s an M-14 variant, though why it is designated M-1 is a mystery I intend not to solve. In answer to your question, it’s the cartridge. It’s an intermediate round, the At 7.62×51MM (an ODD size, I should say, smaller than the M-14 fired, if not by much), it’s really only a little bit bigger (mostly around the shell casing) than the seemingly (and inexplicably) detested 5.56×45MM of M-16 fame. Do you find this valuable? |
nightcreeper78 |
6. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 4 2008, 8:54 PM EST
"Tragically, I too had to turn to them, BUT I verified by other sources the information. It’s an M-14 variant, though why it is designated M-1 is a mystery I intend not to solve.A 7.62x51mm NATO and a .308 Winchester are the same cartridge. The M-14 is a fully automatic rifle and the M1A1 is the semi-auto version. I think the design originated from a M-1 Garand as it and the M-14 are so similar in design, aside from chambering, fire control mechanism, and magazine type. Do you find this valuable? |
![[White_Fire]](http://image.wetpaint.com/image/1/GrHOJURjIxl_4PEKHptIEA29975/GW090)
[White_Fire] |
7. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 20 2008, 5:56 PM EST
Another inaccuracy, the Rate of rate listed for the L85a2 is wrong. Should be just 700 rounds/min.
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SnowmanBob |
8. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 20 2008, 6:13 PM EST
A .308 Winchester and a 7.62x51 NATO are damn close, but not quite. The .308 has a slightly higher velocity, and I think it has a wider rim on the cartridge. It's just enough to jam your gun on a bad day.
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Blood_Type_11A |
9. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 20 2008, 6:13 PM EST
"Tragically, I too had to turn to them, BUT I verified by other sources the information. It’s an M-14 variant, though why it is designated M-1 is a mystery I intend not to solve.7.62x51 NATO / .308 Win. is what the M14 fired. and it's not closer to an assault rifle caliber, it's the same round fired from the M240B. It's not just a little bigger than the 5.56, it's a whole helluva lot bigger than a 5.56. The standard 5.56 round is 55gr, while the .308 is typically 150gr. Huge difference. the 7.62x51 NATO (M14/M1A) = .30 cal the 7.62x39 (AK47) = .30 cal the 7.62x63 (30-06, M1 Garand) = .30 cal the bullet diameters are all the same - 7.62 (.308) Do you find this valuable? |
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Blood_Type_11A |
10. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 20 2008, 6:14 PM EST
"A .308 Winchester and a 7.62x51 NATO are damn close, but not quite. The .308 has a slightly higher velocity, and I think it has a wider rim on the cartridge. It's just enough to jam your gun on a bad day."really?? Do you find this valuable? |
byates |
11. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 20 2008, 7:22 PM EST
"the 7.62x39 (AK47) = .30 cal7.62x39 is .311 not .308, same as the .303 Brit and the 7.65 Argentine Do you find this valuable? |
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Andering_J_REDDSON |
12. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 20 2008, 9:12 PM EST
"(A)nd it's not closer to an assault rifle caliber, it's the same round fired from the M240B."Correct. It’s an intermediate round, meaning it is smaller than a “rifle” round, but a Hell of a lot bigger than a pistol round. Other examples of “Intermediate” rounds: 5.56×45MM (NATO Standard) 7.62×51MM (NATO Standard) 7.62×54MM 7.62×39MM (Warsaw Standard) Do you find this valuable? |
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byates |
13. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 21 2008, 12:47 AM EST
x54 and x51 are rifle rounds, same power range as the 30-06 and 303. x39 is close to 30-30 power.
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crowleyj |
14. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 21 2008, 12:47 AM EST
"Correct. It’s an intermediate round, meaning it is smaller than a “rifle” round, but a Hell of a lot bigger than a pistol round. Other examples of “Intermediate” rounds:If that's your standards of a "intermediate" round what do you consider a full size rifle round? a flipping .50 cal round! As for your list the 5.56 an the 7.62x39 are "intermediate" rounds. The 7.62x39 is so because it's a kurtz round. It also falls into the .30 cal category since way back when the machinest were limited on the accuracies of the tools they had. They didn't mic, or super mic into the tenths' like now a day's. They calipered in the thousands an lumped rounds to the closest hundred thousands. Like shops do to the tenth today an lump it to the thousanth. Since gaugeing at the millionth takes costly lasers an as yet few need such tolerances. The 7.62x51 an 7.62x54 are full rifle rounds also considered .30 cal rounds for the above reasons. An you also have to take into account the metric differances compared to American sizeing. But I would love to hear what you consider a full sized rifle round? Do you find this valuable? |
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SkipNChurch |
15. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 21 2008, 1:14 AM EST
"A .308 Winchester and a 7.62x51 NATO are damn close, but not quite. The .308 has a slightly higher velocity, and I think it has a wider rim on the cartridge. It's just enough to jam your gun on a bad day."WTF are you typing about SnowmanBob? What you *think* is not only incorrect, but will end getting someone killed. 308Win/762x51 are interchangeable cartridges with a single caveat. That being .mil spec ammo may be hard to chamber in tight match/target grade chambers. Since NATO spec ammo is built world-wide in many different countries you'll find mil.spec chambers more generous and *open* compared to *tight* civillian spec versions. GPMGs and select fire battle rifles tend to have chambers meant to run whatever ammo is provided for them. Often that ammo is not the best, nor cleanest. Not unusual for someone with a civvie 308Win to be unable to easily shove delinked 762Nato into chamber. Your ascertainment is based on erroneous information and needs to be rethought and repaired before some fool takes it on face value, not checking, and getting themselves killed. *EOM* Do you find this valuable? |
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SkipNChurch |
16. cj, ctxt...
Nov 21 2008, 1:17 AM EST
762x51Rimless... .308 Win or 308NATOFor the jokers in my world, 762x51R gets tossed about. Millions of rifles chambered in the infamous x51R cartridge, but few know its "true designation"... Not sure if the kids here would be able to live long enough to scroung up a few hundred rounds of X51R to save their lives.. Do you find this valuable? |
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crowleyj |
17. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 21 2008, 1:51 AM EST
oh forgot! but thanks to skip message the 7.62x54mmR forgot the R is rimmed.
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Andering_J_REDDSON |
18. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 21 2008, 12:27 PM EST
They are smaller than the "Classic" rifle round (and for Crowley, no asshfuck, it's roughl;y 30 cal to 20MM, but congradulations, you just bought yourself a one week ban for flaming.)So, a little history lesson... During the World Wars, the Standard Infantry Rifle caliber were big, beefy bullets. The Amercians used the .30-cal. The Germans, the 7.92(by something). During the war, the Germans realized a "need" for a new type of gun, accurate over 200 yards, with a high rate of fire AND detatchable box mags. The first step was to cut down a 7.92 almost by half (and thus reduce powder, slug size, range, and power-to-target). That was the 7.65 (IIRC), and that was the birth of the intermediate round. There is no "specific" deliniation between the terms "intermdiate," "rifle," "pistol," etc, so it's always beemn applied based on how big it is compared to another size. Tehre are rifles that fire pistol rounds, pistols that fire rifle rounds (and not just cutsomn builds, but mass-produced versions), etc. (FWIW, I think there SHOULD be some specificity applied. It would avoid assinine arguments like this, and shut people like Crow up for good.) Do you find this valuable? |
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nightcreeper78 |
19. RE: Inaccuracies
Nov 21 2008, 2:21 PM EST
"7.62x39 is .311 not .308, same as the .303 Brit and the 7.65 Argentine"The 7.62x39mm is .308 caliber, other countries measure bore diameter by groove to groove. Americans measure land to land for bore diameter, I don't know why it's done so differently, but that was from an article I read from "Shotgun News" and "American Rifleman". There was also a discrepancy on the FN SCAR chamberings the light model is in 5.56x45mm and the heavy model is 7.62x51mm. Both are going into a civilian models with variants that are going to be offered from CMMG in 2009. The price isn't known yet, I'm sure it won't be cheap as other FN products from CMMG are not,but they will be superb quality. Do you find this valuable? |
