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Discussion: Brooks on the .22lr

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zombiegirl95	Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 1:18 PM EDT I noticed the other day (with the help of imfdb.org) that quite a few of the weapons used in Dawn of the Dead (1978) are .22s Fran & Steven's rifles, the 'M-16s', a few of the revolvers used, the derringer etc. Now, this is outside the box, but Brooks' guide is more of a nod to the zombie genre than a serious guide, so do you think perhaps he may have sang the praises of .22s due to their prevalence in one of the most important zombie films. Or is that a little far fetched? Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: 22 brooks dawn
John_234	1. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 1:26 PM EDT AR15s fire the .223, the same diameter as a .22 rimfire, but much heavier, larger, and over a thousand feet per second faster. Perhaps, I really wouldn't be surprised if it was meant as such. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
zombiegirl95	2. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 1:28 PM EDT If you check though, the weapons used in the film are .22s You see Peter reloading at one point, and you see the tiny magazine http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Dawn_of_the_Dead_%281978%29 Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
PedroAsani	3. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 1:37 PM EDT Brooks' preference comes from two main points: weight and penetration. You can carry more .22 bullets than .45, simply because of the weight. Assassins and hitmen prefer .22 because it will typically have enough power to enter a skull, but not enough to leave it. This means that it bounces around inside the skull, turning the brain to mush. Ideal for destroying a zombie if a certain part of the brain (ie stem) rather than just any of it needs to be destroyed. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
John_234	4. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 1:39 PM EDT "Brooks' preference comes from two main points: weight and penetration. You can carry more .22 bullets than .45, simply because of the weight. Assassins and hitmen prefer .22 because it will typically have enough power to enter a skull, but not enough to leave it. This means that it bounces around inside the skull, turning the brain to mush. Ideal for destroying a zombie if a certain part of the brain (ie stem) rather than just any of it needs to be destroyed." I thought it had already been established that the skull bouncing bullet is a myth. Post reply 1 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
PedroAsani	5. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 1:46 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 14 2009, 1:47 PM EDT "I thought it had already been established that the skull bouncing bullet is a myth." Found on Bulletin Board: "If you guys have a serious interest in gunshot wounds you should read Vincent J.M. Di Maio's book 'Gunshot Wounds.' http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/084...lance&n=283155 In Di Maio's book, Chapter 9 deals with 'Bloody Bodies and Bloody Scenes.' Di Maio noted that of 185 cases of suicide by .22, only 20% of those bullets exited. Of 60 cases of homicide by .22 only 6.6% exited. These figures are from gunshot heads only. He further adds: "...of the bullets that do not exit the head, the vast majority are retained in the cranial cavity. Thus, internal ricochet is fairly common, occurring in anywhere from 10 to 15% of the cases..." (See page 264 and 265)" Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
PedroAsani	6. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 1:47 PM EDT And from the same guy (a coroner I believe) "Also, you can give Malcolm Dodd's book 'Terminal Ballistics' a read: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/084...lance&n=283155 In Dodd's book, Chapter 8 deals with the 'Rimfire .22 Projectile.' Dodd acknowledges that "...the .22 short and LR rounds also have the reputation of internal ricochet within the cranium, further creating complex injury patterns..." (See page 41)" Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
John_234	7. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 1:49 PM EDT Interesting..... These were all at short range, correct? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	8. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 1:52 PM EDT No idea, I haven't read the studies. All I know is that the bouncing effect is documented. From the two quotes above, it doesn't happen all the time, in fact it may require specific scenarios (range, angle of penetration, placement on the skull, etc) but it is common enough to be considered true by those who deal with it. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
John_234	9. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 1:56 PM EDT "No idea, I haven't read the studies. All I know is that the bouncing effect is documented. From the two quotes above, it doesn't happen all the time, in fact it may require specific scenarios (range, angle of penetration, placement on the skull, etc) but it is common enough to be considered true by those who deal with it." I suppose, but the suicides are almost certainly contact wounds. The reason I said the bouncing bullet was a myth is that it isn't consistent. Change range, angle of impact, and you probably won't get it. Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
PedroAsani	10. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 2:01 PM EDT Judging by a couple of posts on the physics of the "bouncing bullet", a lot of it seems to be more due to where in the skull it impacts. Imagine a straight shot, centre, near the top of the forehead. The angle of the skull at the back is more conducive to a ricochet, so it will travel downwards, following the curve of the skull. Just found this one as well: "I have seen the autopsy photos of a young man who commited suicide by firing a .22 LR bullet into the roof of his mouth from a Marlin Model 60 rifle. The bullet went into the brain, traveled at an upward and to the rear angle, hit the back of the skull, ricocheted to the right side, again the bullet ricocheted to the left side and exited just to the front of the left ear canal. When the kids brain was sectioned and viewed from the top, it looked like the bullet had cut a near perfect X into his brain. Poor kid and yes things such as this can and do happen." Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
PedroAsani	11. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 2:04 PM EDT So from that, it was point blank, and it bounced. How well it would do so at 100 yards, I have no clue. But in Mythbusters fine tradition, I can say "Myth Confirmed." It might need some certain conditions, it doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen. [cue shot of manikin head with CONFIRMED stencilied on it getting shot in slow motion] Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
John_234	12. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 2:07 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 14 2009, 2:08 PM EDT Well, it may happen, but I wouldn't think such reliable enough to make a .22LR a primary weapon as brooks suggested. Good points for sure. May I ask for the source of that last anecdote? That makes me wonder, has Mythbusters ever done the .22LR ricochet? Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
PedroAsani	13. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 2:17 PM EDT http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-170468.html Post by Onmilo, about halfway down. And they should totally do it, it would be a good excuse to make heads explode. :) Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
John_234	14. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 2:27 PM EDT Very interesting thread there..... It would be, it'd be awesome if mythbusters did a zombie special or something. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
NorCal_Survivors	15. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 10:09 PM EDT People should pay attention to the quoted statistics. ")ccurring in anywhere from 10 to 15% of the cases" ... means that it DOESN'T happen 85% to 90% of the time. Further, you can extrapolate the data to reasonable conclude - since bouncing around cases are those in which the bullet does not exit and retains enough energy to ricochet - that MOST of these are the suicide instances at very close or point blank cases. This skews the stats somewhat, so you can conclude that firing at ordinary defensive distances - say 5 yards and greater - the likelihood of a "good bounce" is fairly small. The "myth" is that 22LR exhibits the "bounce in the skull" effect often enough to say that "it does that", when in fact it does not do so very often. Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
John_234	16. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 10:16 PM EDT "If you check though, the weapons used in the film are .22s You see Peter reloading at one point, and you see the tiny magazine http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Dawn_of_the_Dead_%281978%29" Now that I look at it, I wouldn't think it a .22 weapon. Yes, they were actually .22 rifles, but why in the world would they have a faux 5.56mm magazine if they weren't supposed to represent the M16? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
spamanninen	17. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 10:24 PM EDT I LOVE THE .22 LR..... IT WILL KILL A ZOMBIE... i think i say something like this about 3 times a week.... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
JasonRedfield	18. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 10:44 PM EDT "Now that I look at it, I wouldn't think it a .22 weapon. Yes, they were actually .22 rifles, but why in the world would they have a faux 5.56mm magazine if they weren't supposed to represent the M16?" Well, the thing about IMFDB is that they state what the actual prop gun is and they'll also mention what they were most likely meant to represent. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
John_234	19. RE: Brooks on the .22lr Aug 14 2009, 10:47 PM EDT "Well, the thing about IMFDB is that they state what the actual prop gun is and they'll also mention what they were most likely meant to represent." "The guns were pretty much 'mime' fired, with only the sound effect and blood squibs to indicate that the rifle was fired and is used in place of the M16A1." Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?

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Discussion: Brooks on the .22lr

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