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Discussion: Problems with all four points

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AZTF_VANCE	Problems with all four points Aug 15 2009, 9:45 PM EDT Problem one solved========Gas, diesel, even kerosene that are stored at gas stations are pumped electrically. So no power, means no raiding a gas station for fuel. You will be stuck with what you have when the lights go out--------- WRONG! Even tho they have motorized pumps its still a belt and pulley system. all you would have to do is simply remove the housing to the pump and attach a hand crank. I would NOT suggest doing this during the first weeks of the infection as there would draw alot of attention to you and you would need some time to find bolt sizes and other things of this nature Problem two solved=======computer systems that control so much that a problem with something a small as a sensor can cause huge problems-----Yes that is very true with "newer" model cars but I would you would rather have dependability over style. "older" model cars with out dated systems are less integrated and easily bypassed========Even if you're Billy Jim Bob and can fix any problem with the most basic of tool kits, at some time a part is going to break beyond the point of repair------------Replacement parts are mass produced for the sake of a large population, with that same population being at an all time low there will be plenty of parts to go around==========in later years you have to worry about rust----------there are plenty of ways to avoid rust and even safely remove rust. Yes rust is unavoidable but the life span of your transportation can be greatly prolonged by simple maintenance===========So once your battery fails, and it will, you might have a tough time getting a replacement, or recharging one----------------- well the short term fix for this is have at least two batteries, rotate them week by week. as far as long term there is replacement fluids for most car batteries Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: Cars
AZTF_VANCE	1. RE: Problems with all four points Aug 15 2009, 9:45 PM EDT Problem three solved=====Back roads should have less traffic and there are Trucks that have enough power to clear a path Problem four solved------- Look you just cant have more then five people walking, its just asking for trouble. Yea you can handle a few encounters here and there but that makes more noise then a car would. Face it not everybody can run a marathon with extra weight. Besides there are products to reduce noise made by your choice of transportation. Raiders would go with brute force or stealth. brute force you will almost always have to fight but with stealth you have a better chance of getting shot on foot Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Angel_956	2. RE: Problems with all four points Aug 15 2009, 9:54 PM EDT But it's okay for him hes gonna be riding on a horse.. Old school! HELL YEAH! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
AZTF_VANCE	3. RE: Problems with all four points Aug 15 2009, 10:09 PM EDT vehicles will be a great form of transportation for awhile, but they are man-made. Nothing man-made lasts forever but with care they will last longer then you Post reply Do you find this valuable?
AZTF_VANCE	4. RE: Problems with all four points Aug 15 2009, 10:10 PM EDT "But it's okay for him hes gonna be riding on a horse.. Old school! HELL YEAH!" horses come with their own set of problems that I do not have the answers to Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Angel_956	5. RE: Problems with all four points Aug 15 2009, 11:15 PM EDT I'd rather be rolling in a truck just because where I live theres a few truck dealership than farms with horses.. Also because I wouldn't know how to ride a horse. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
gibgab555	6. RE: Problems with all four points Aug 16 2009, 5:13 AM EDT "Problem three solved=====Back roads should have less traffic and there are Trucks that have enough power to clear a path Problem four solved------- Look you just cant have more then five people walking, its just asking for trouble. Yea you can handle a few encounters here and there but that makes more noise then a car would. Face it not everybody can run a marathon with extra weight. Besides there are products to reduce noise made by your choice of transportation. Raiders would go with brute force or stealth. brute force you will almost always have to fight but with stealth you have a better chance of getting shot on foot" no it doesn't. a car speeding across & battling the terrain could alert a whole horde of your presence. if you maintain discipline, not a single noise will be made. if you have bikes, you can easily outrun zombies from an engagement. about number four is, what if the second one runs out? you haven't thought about long term. also, pumping manually is very dangerous, & with the oil consumption these days, the only oil is very deep, too deep for manual pumping to reach. in terms of fossil fuels, you will have to rely on what has already been pumped from underground. then, if you think SUV's can pass wrecked cars & layers of mud, think again. SUV's are simply cars that trick people into buying large sums of gasoline. they are no more reliable then a sedan, & you do not want to be driving a sedan when the outbreak hits. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	7. RE: Problems with all four points Aug 16 2009, 7:13 AM EDT Major problem one: Gasoline goes bad. Quite fast really. After a couple of months, with no new stocks being produced, all cars will be relegated to shiny road blocks. Forget all the movies you see with cars and trucks still working months and years after the collapse of society. If you leave your car standing with a full tank at the airport for three months, you are advised to drain it before you use the car again. And fuel stabilizer needs to be added when the fuel is fresh. It will keep it for about 12-15 months. But even if you have enough to keep a whole tanker truck fresh, once that is gone, you are hosed. Major problem three: Keep ramming cars out of the way with a truck, and you will break something before too long. Crack the radiator, maybe the axle, and you are stuck right there. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
AZTF_VANCE	8. RE: Problems with all four points Aug 16 2009, 2:45 PM EDT "no it doesn't. a car speeding across & battling the terrain could alert a whole horde of your presence. if you maintain discipline, not a single noise will be made. if you have bikes, you can easily outrun zombies from an engagement. about number four is, what if the second one runs out? you haven't thought about long term. also, pumping manually is very dangerous, & with the oil consumption these days, the only oil is very deep, too deep for manual pumping to reach. in terms of fossil fuels, you will have to rely on what has already been pumped from underground. then, if you think SUV's can pass wrecked cars & layers of mud, think again. SUV's are simply cars that trick people into buying large sums of gasoline. they are no more reliable then a sedan, & you do not want to be driving a sedan when the outbreak hits." My reasoning for useing cars is not for the speed but for the gear they can carry, the protection they provide and the many other uses they have. By battleing terrain it sounds like your talking about going "off road" wich is not a good option for bikes either since the gear somebody would be carring would not only put them off ballance but it would also take more time and energy that would be more proudctive used in another way. once again with trying to simply out run a zombies you have to realize the limits of the human body, very few people can run a marathon with an extra 100 pounds on their back Before I give a proper response to your second paragraph i feel it would be helpful to everybody if you clarified a few things first. What exactly do you mean by "about number four is, what if the second one runs out? " I never suggested that SUV's where a viable choice so perhaps you mistook my statements Post reply Do you find this valuable?
AZTF_VANCE	9. RE: Problems with all four points Aug 16 2009, 3:09 PM EDT "Major problem one: Gasoline goes bad. Quite fast really. After a couple of months, with no new stocks being produced, all cars will be relegated to shiny road blocks. Forget all the movies you see with cars and trucks still working months and years after the collapse of society. If you leave your car standing with a full tank at the airport for three months, you are advised to drain it before you use the car again. And fuel stabilizer needs to be added when the fuel is fresh. It will keep it for about 12-15 months. But even if you have enough to keep a whole tanker truck fresh, once that is gone, you are hosed. Major problem three: Keep ramming cars out of the way with a truck, and you will break something before too long. Crack the radiator, maybe the axle, and you are stuck right there." Yes gas can and will go bad but you act as tho no more fule will be produced period. The equepitment will still exist, People with the knolage of the use of the equepitment will still exsist and books on that subject will still exsist. Therefore fule will keep being produced but not on suce a large scale. I personaly have educated my self on refineing methods and things of that nature I wouldn't suggest ramming the car out of the way but almost all car/truck/whatever can be put into neutral wile the power is off so a gentle push from another car/truck/whatever or a person would be all it would take to clear a path Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	10. RE: Problems with all four points Aug 16 2009, 3:38 PM EDT "Yes gas can and will go bad but you act as tho no more fule will be produced period. The equepitment will still exist, People with the knolage of the use of the equepitment will still exsist and books on that subject will still exsist. Therefore fule will keep being produced but not on suce a large scale. I personaly have educated my self on refineing methods and things of that nature I wouldn't suggest ramming the car out of the way but almost all car/truck/whatever can be put into neutral wile the power is off so a gentle push from another car/truck/whatever or a person would be all it would take to clear a path" Self-educated on refinery techniques, but you have trouble with the words: fuel, equipment, refining, et al. And just because you (allegedly) know how to refine fuel, does that mean you have access to crdue oil, a refinery, electricity, storage and all other items necessary? No, not by a long stretch. And when considering an apocalyptic scenario, that means no more fuel, no more electricity, nothing manufactured at all, except what you can make yourself. Nothing. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
AZTF_VANCE	11. RE: Problems with all four points Aug 17 2009, 2:13 PM EDT "Self-educated on refinery techniques, but you have trouble with the words: fuel, equipment, refining, et al. And just because you (allegedly) know how to refine fuel, does that mean you have access to crdue oil, a refinery, electricity, storage and all other items necessary? No, not by a long stretch. And when considering an apocalyptic scenario, that means no more fuel, no more electricity, nothing manufactured at all, except what you can make yourself. Nothing." I would hope that you are aware that spelling is by no means to measure intelligence. Also lets stay on topic shall we, we are trying to have a civil debate not insult each other. There are a large number of refining facility's located in the south-western united states which is where I plan on being after a set amount of time. With the proper know how, manpower and team work production can begin on a very small scale which is all that would be needed. Think of this, there are more then one way to get power correct? That power can be put into the production of power from a different source such as fossil fuels correct? Now after you have a decent power source what would keep you from running equipment such as mills, laths, routers and other tools for manufacturing? Yes I do realize that this will take alot time and effort but it is without a doubt possible Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	12. RE: Problems with all four points Aug 17 2009, 2:42 PM EDT "I would hope that you are aware that spelling is by no means to measure intelligence. Also lets stay on topic shall we, we are trying to have a civil debate not insult each other." Quite right, especially with regards to long complicated words. And even small ones can get twisted by keyboard slips. But I do find it dubious that someone who has spent time researching refineries would mis-spell fuel twice in one post. And whilst it would be possible, it is unlikely. Refinery equipment requires years of experience to operate without injury, and even then it is dangerous. As for power, do you know how to generate, and harness the large voltages required for such huge plant? One wrong move is your last move. Unless you are a refinery technician, I would say to stay the hell out of one. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
AZTF_VANCE	13. RE: Problems with all four points Aug 17 2009, 4:24 PM EDT "Quite right, especially with regards to long complicated words. And even small ones can get twisted by keyboard slips. But I do find it dubious that someone who has spent time researching refineries would mis-spell fuel twice in one post. And whilst it would be possible, it is unlikely. Refinery equipment requires years of experience to operate without injury, and even then it is dangerous. As for power, do you know how to generate, and harness the large voltages required for such huge plant? One wrong move is your last move. Unless you are a refinery technician, I would say to stay the hell out of one." With the combined use solar, hydroelectric systems, capacitors/batteries ( which can be charged manual ) and possibly generators ( depending if the resource to production ratio ) are enough to operate small sections of a small facility as needed. As for harnessing this power, the AZTF/CRD currently employs two electrical technicians. You are very correct about it being dangerous but the ends will justify the means Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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