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Discussion: Are tectical vests a good idea?

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LWJ2009	60. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 1:15 PM EDT "That's Sergeant Johnson. I am no gentleman. " In the Civ world rank has no meaning anymore. Considering you would be more a peer Mr. Johnson is about as good as it will get. Unless of course you go by hey you. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DevilNuts	61. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 1:22 PM EDT Lucky for me, I am not in the Civ world. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
LWJ2009	62. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 1:27 PM EDT " A standard caliber (9mm or above) semi-automatic handgun, with at least 5 loaded magazines. A long gun of some kind. I prefer a shotgun personally, but the standard choice is a AR or AK variant. (editing in process)" Why five mags though? If your goal is to survive why not just two spares? You do not need that much ammo on you unless your going to be overrun. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DevilNuts	63. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 1:31 PM EDT "Why five mags though? If your goal is to survive why not just two spares? You do not need that much ammo on you unless your going to be overrun." He's not trying to survive, remember? He's going to WAR!!!!eleventyone!11 It's the kind of rigid thinking that I believe to be detrimental to long-term survival. Becoming dependant on any piece of gear and being inflexible to other options betrays a lack of adaptability. IMO, luck plays more of a factor for the guy who can't live without his arsenal than the guy who can think beyone just "Guns N Moar guns." Post reply Do you find this valuable?
John_234	64. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 1:31 PM EDT "Why five mags though? If your goal is to survive why not just two spares? You do not need that much ammo on you unless your going to be overrun." I don't think it's just having enough firepower; it's having extra mags if any turn out to be unreliable or break. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
LWJ2009	65. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 1:33 PM EDT "Lucky for me, I am not in the Civ world. " Nope and your Marines will use your rank when they address you. However the rest of us ignorant ones will just be polite. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
John_234	66. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 1:34 PM EDT Practical terms? A vest holds gear tighter to your body, gives you more flexibility in terms of item placement, and is typically quieter then most other web gear. It's less breathable and much harder to conceal if you ever find the need though. A mis-conception that many people hold is that a LBV or other type of tactical vest is body armor, when only specific kind of vests have any ballistic capability. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
LWJ2009	67. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 1:39 PM EDT "He's not trying to survive, remember? He's going to WAR!!!!eleventyone!11 It's the kind of rigid thinking that I believe to be detrimental to long-term survival. Becoming dependant on any piece of gear and being inflexible to other options betrays a lack of adaptability. IMO, luck plays more of a factor for the guy who can't live without his arsenal than the guy who can think beyone just "Guns N Moar guns."" I agree being able to think on your feet is going to be the difference between going home, and not. A mag in the pistol and two spares is plenty. Guns are tools just like anything else, however failure to adapt is going to kill half the people that make it through the outbreak. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
John_234	68. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 1:49 PM EDT "I agree being able to think on your feet is going to be the difference between going home, and not. A mag in the pistol and two spares is plenty. Guns are tools just like anything else, however failure to adapt is going to kill half the people that make it through the outbreak." More then anything, I think it was just meant as a general guideline. I'm pretty sure two or three spares would be fine for a Glock 17, with seventeen rounds in each magazine, but if someone used, say, a 1911, the capacity would quite literally be halved, and two or three spares would not be quite the same thing. Most entry teams I've seen carry four mags minimum for a sidearm, and they're not exactly known for drawn out conflicts. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DevilNuts	69. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 1:50 PM EDT " Most entry teams I've seen carry four mags minimum for a sidearm, and they're not exactly known for drawn out conflicts." They are also, by definition, looking for a fight. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
NorCal_Survivors	70. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 2:00 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 21 2009, 2:05 PM EDT "It's the kind of rigid thinking that I believe to be detrimental to long-term survival. " You mistake preparedness, based upon historical precedent and demonstrated effectiveness, as evidence of "rigid thinking". I believe that you also have a mistaken notion that some kind of "uber-adaptability" is going to win the day. What do you base that opinion upon, aside from raw conjecture. How does "thinking on your feet" magically allow you to repel the 3 armed men, banging down your front door, looking to kill you, rape your daughter and take your food ... better than you, your wife and your daughter being better armed & better trained? Even if one agrees with your approach, how do I make myself LESS survivable by being better equipped and better prepared? If needed, I can ditch my "over abundance", trade it for goods, cache it for later, and adopt a "less threatening" posture at will. I have options. How will someone less equipped suddenly "rise to the occasion" ... an extra couple of loaded mags and a pack of celox will "appear" somehow? Many people on this forum are very informed by Hollywood and the whims of their imagination. The factual evidence of history is a better teacher. I cannot be so cavalier with the lives of my family and friends. I guarantee you that having adequate equipment & training, a team, a plan, a place to go, the means to grow food and the means to defend it will insure long-term survival much better than "thinking on your feet" and hoping for the best. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
John_234	71. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 2:03 PM EDT "They are also, by definition, looking for a fight. " True enough, but the point still stands that they're not exactly known for being loaded down with ammo. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
StrykerPez	72. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 2:06 PM EDT I'll just put in my 02¢ here. I think both arguments (regarding the wearing of a tactical vest) are valid. It all depends on the Class of the outbreak. For example: You are just lazing around on a Saturday afternoon, and catch word of what you think sounds like a zombie outbreak (even though the newscaster is calling it a 'shocking wave of crime'). The report is coming in from the next county over. You are going to want to head out, either to gather a few more supplies, find your family or friends, etc. There is no way you should be dressed like G.I. Joe. Hell, you don't even know if it IS a zombie outbreak, you could just be fuckin paranoid. Walking down the street in an LBV and BDUs with your sidearm strapped to your thigh is going to get you arrested and possibly shot. In that scenario, you should be dressed as inconspicuously as possible, but still functional. Me? Boots, jeans, jacket, CCW, knife. No reason to let the panicked masses know you have a head on your shoulders. Now. That being said. Once the world has gone to shit and the cities are in flames, by all means, wear your tacgear. THAT IS WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED FOR. Tactical combat situations, which is pretty much what you're going to be in while trying to keep Zack off your ass. I think at that point, worrying that your gear makes you look scary to the soccer mom down the street who now won't let you in for supper is ridiculous. She'll be dead already, and you can feel free to bust down her door with your boot and shoot her in the face with the 1911 you pulled from your friggen sweet thigh holster. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
NorCal_Survivors	73. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 2:09 PM EDT There is nothing in my comments which demands that you LOOK like a walking war machine. A poncho covers a multitude of "sins". A pistol in a hip holster and a rifle in (lower profile) "african carry" are fine ... just keep your "hello kitty" backpack at ready with suitable contents. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
timberrattler	74. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 2:33 PM EDT This discussion reminds me of a conversation I had with an old neighbor of mine. He lived back in the sticks on a long lane on a hill and was spending his retirement running trot lines and traps down rutted up dirt roads. The funny thing is he had a two wheel drive truck. I asked him why he didn't buy himself a four wheel drive. He looked at me with a grin on his face and said, "Why the fuck would I do that?". I said, "So you won't get hung up on those old farm trails your always driving on". He replied, "I never get hung up because I don't have a four wheel drive. If I had one of those high risers I would think I could go anywhere and wouldn't stay home on snowy or rainy days". He then asked me how many people my dad had pulled out of his fields this year. I said three. He said, "How many of them were two wheel drives". My answer was none. Post reply 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
DevilNuts	75. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 2:49 PM EDT " I guarantee you that having adequate equipment & training, a team, a plan, a place to go, the means to grow food and the means to defend it will insure long-term survival much better than "thinking on your feet" and hoping for the best." Fair enough, and the two are indeed not mutually exclusive. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DevilNuts	76. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 2:51 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 21 2009, 2:57 PM EDT "This discussion reminds me of a conversation I had with an old neighbor of mine. He lived back in the sticks on a long lane on a hill and was spending his retirement running trot lines and traps down rutted up dirt roads. The funny thing is he had a two wheel drive truck. I asked him why he didn't buy himself a four wheel drive. He looked at me with a grin on his face and said, "Why the fuck would I do that?". I said, "So you won't get hung up on those old farm trails your always driving on". He replied, "I never get hung up because I don't have a four wheel drive. If I had one of those high risers I would think I could go anywhere and wouldn't stay home on snowy or rainy days". He then asked me how many people my dad had pulled out of his fields this year. I said three. He said, "How many of them were two wheel drives". My answer was none. " This is probably the most perfect example of the way I think. At the end of the day, each individual will tailor his needs and kit to best suit his own survival approach. There really is no "right" or "wrong" answer here, and I would like to say to all participants that I appreciate everyone keeping the debate so polite. There really isn't much I can add that I haven't already said about this... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
NorCal_Survivors	77. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 2:56 PM EDT "... the two are indeed not mutually exclusive. " Exactly. I have no issue with being adaptable. Neither does my survival depend entirely upon a massive assemblage of equipment. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
LWJ2009	78. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 7:45 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 21 2009, 11:03 PM EDT "More then anything, I think it was just meant as a general guideline. I'm pretty sure two or three spares would be fine for a Glock 17, with seventeen rounds in each magazine, but if someone used, say, a 1911, the capacity would quite literally be halved, and two or three spares would not be quite the same thing. Most entry teams I've seen carry four mags minimum for a sidearm, and they're not exactly known for drawn out conflicts." However one well placed .45 is worth two to three 9mm. 21 rounds is plenty if you can put steel on target. I would prefer my .45 because it can be used to shoot more than just people. The 9mm is not a very versatile round, however it works against people which is one type of threat. I would like to buy a 9mm and keep in the vehicle and use it just to plink with. However I will not carry one around on my person unless I have no other options. Besides I am not an Army of One, and thinking like that will get you hurt or dead pretty quick. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
John_234	79. RE: Are tactical vests a good idea? Aug 21 2009, 7:52 PM EDT "However one well placed .45 is worth two to three 9mm. 21 rounds is plenty if you can put steel on target. I would prefer my .45 because it can be used to shoot more than just people. The 9mm is not a very versatile round, however it works against people which is one type of threat. I would like to buy a 9mm and keep in the vehicle and use it just to plink with. However I will not carry one around on my person unless I have no other options. Besides I am not any Army of One, and thinking like that will get you hurt or dead pretty quick." Bad example on my part. Alright, so what if that 1911 was a Micro Carry pistol that carried 8 rounds of 9mm parabellum, the same caliber? Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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