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Discussion: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch.

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Eritsukukun	Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 20 2009, 9:17 AM EDT This thread is not a discussion if its construction is a good idea or not. its a discussion of how one would achieve such a goal. It is good that you point out flaws in the plan but you should also do your best to solve it. Needs for the plan to work. - Hangar for construction and parking what kind of buildings are large enough to house a smaller zeppelin? -Lifting gas where would one find such gas? possible ways to produce your own. Building material. what kind of materials are needed to make the structure as well as the envelope. how can one make/scavenge airtight fabrics good types of seals. -Steering a good system of maneuvering -propulsion/Fuel What kind of engine would be a good idea to use? The old zeppelins used blaugas that had the same density as air and did not change the weight of the craft. what kind of fuel would replace this function. Is it possible to produce blaugas? these are the problems Ive faced while exploring the concept. please add more problems and most importantly solutions. Post reply 5 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: Airship Defense Plane Semi-Rigid Airship Survival Transportation Vehicle Zeppelin Zombie
Akerris	1. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 20 2009, 9:26 AM EDT \| Post edited: Sep 20 2009, 9:27 AM EDT "This thread is not a discussion if its construction is a good idea or not. its a discussion of how one would achieve such a goal. It is good that you point out flaws in the plan but you should also do your best to solve it. Needs for the plan to work. - Hangar for construction and parking what kind of buildings are large enough to house a smaller zeppelin? -Lifting gas where would one find such gas? possible ways to produce your own. Building material. what kind of materials are needed to make the structure as well as the envelope. how can one make/scavenge airtight fabrics good types of seals. -Steering a good system of maneuvering -propulsion/Fuel What kind of engine would be a good idea to use? The old zeppelins used blaugas that had the same density as air and did not change the weight of the craft. what kind of fuel would replace this function. Is it possible to produce blaugas? these are the problems Ive faced while exploring the concept. please add more problems and most importantly solutions. " Wouldn't a hot air balloon be easier? Why make a solid structure craft when you can make a balloon with a fraction of the materials and technology? Why discuss something when something else makes it obsolete? Post reply 0 out of 10 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
byates	2. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 20 2009, 11:06 AM EDT "Wouldn't a hot air balloon be easier? Why make a solid structure craft when you can make a balloon with a fraction of the materials and technology? Why discuss something when something else makes it obsolete?" Zepplelin is capable of powered flight, due to the structure supporting the gas bags. Hot air balloons drift with the wind. Zeppelins also have an advantage in cargo/lift capacity. Lifting gas is a big problem, two effective choices, Hydrogen and Helium. Hydrogen is easy to make and explosive/flammable. Helium is hard to make and inert. Most plastics would be permeable to the small molecules of either gas, mylar would be the easiest to find common material. Post reply 8 out of 8 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Eritsukukun	3. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 20 2009, 12:43 PM EDT @akerris perhaps I should explain my reasoning why it would be beneficial to build a zeppelin or any "lighter than air craft" (now referred to as LTAC) for that matter in order to avoid such comments. The most important part of any successful colony is the ability to scavenge supplies and raw materials for your fortress. agreed? this is also the most dangerous endeavor since your surroundings is hostile and even the smallest sound could create a surge of zombies that surrounds you. The lack of road maintenance and traffic jams makes makes land based transportation both dangerous and difficult since cars make loads of sound that attracts zombies and even if you can drive trough them you cant stop to pick up supplies. A zeppelin on the other hand have the power of flight and the one thing zombies cant do is fly (most plans assume this because if they can we are all doomed anyway). sure there are many types of craft that you can do this but you must also take into consideration that most crafts need a runway and a good one too. that remove all planes and leaves helicopters and LTACs. Now if you can build a Helicopter and supply it with enough gas I am all for it but a zeppelin can hover for long periods of time and not use fuel making it much more efficient compared to its cargo capacity. My general plan for using it is having a zeppelin with a 5-10 man crew and cargo space the same weight as the crew. with the craft you can then fly to the nearest supermarket and land/anchor at the roof. The crew have now moved a large distance without a single zombie encounter. from there you fill the ship with cargo that you want and return to base. No other Craft can achieve something like this since a chopper would have the issue of roof integrity. the ideal would be to steal a blimp like the good year blimp but as it is now there are only a handful of functional Blimps in the world right now. Post reply 4 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
PedroAsani	4. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 20 2009, 5:40 PM EDT I can suggest one source of helium for those who are scavenger minded: dive shops, specifically those that offer advanced Technical courses in Trimix and Heliox. They will typically have several bottles of helium on hand, and very sweet gas blending gear. If you are torn between using hydrogen or helium, I would suggest using both, but with the helium as the main bulk. Maybe 5-10% hydrogen. This should keep "the Hindenberg problem" from occuring. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
DevilNuts	5. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 20 2009, 6:05 PM EDT \| Post edited: Sep 20 2009, 6:06 PM EDT Avoid small dive shops, they will only have nitrox. I think certain welding practices use helium, might be a better way to find the gas. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
USNtwidget	6. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 20 2009, 6:37 PM EDT how much helium would an LTAC need? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Whybother08	7. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 20 2009, 6:42 PM EDT \| Post edited: Sep 20 2009, 6:45 PM EDT "how much helium would an LTAC need?" Did some research, and to put it into perspective, the Goodyear Blimp uses 202,700 cubic feet of helium, and THEN you need to add about 10,000 more cubic feet every month. That's a lot of fu.cking gas. Post reply 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Truno	8. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 20 2009, 7:26 PM EDT You can use electrolysis to make hydrogen, and you could modify and engine to run off of moonshine after you create a distillery. I've also seen some videos of people building light weight man powered flight in the 50's, might want to look in to that. Great idea though, do some research and post whatever you find, I'd like to read it. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Eritsukukun	9. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 21 2009, 6:58 AM EDT the problem with electrolysis that i have found when I did the research is that it does not produce pure hydrogen. it produces HHO which is 2 hydrogen and one oxygen. does that affect the lifting ratio? can you separate the oxygen from the hydrogen? if we have a chemist be sure to tell me. so far Ive found 3 plausible lifting gases. hydrogen, helium, methane(natural gas) Hydrogen can be produces in large quantities but explodes if you're unlucky (but on the other hand the risk of dying is considerably higher than normal and id prefer getting blown up in a zeppelin than get my brain eaten or starve to death) Helium is the safest lifting gas but have less lift (http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/lift.html) and I have no clue how to make it. Methane: I haven't explored this but it has the worst lift among the three but there could be a way to mass produce it in which case its a possible gas since it has much less leakage. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
PedroAsani	10. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 21 2009, 8:06 AM EDT Isn't methane even more flammable? Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Akerris	11. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 21 2009, 8:24 AM EDT To the OP: You've thought this through to a point, and yes blimps are more maneuverable than balloons, but the upkeep seems nearly impossible. Better to make a self sustaining colony than one that relies on raiding. Post reply 0 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Eritsukukun	12. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 21 2009, 2:54 PM EDT "To the OP: You've thought this through to a point, and yes blimps are more maneuverable than balloons, but the upkeep seems nearly impossible. Better to make a self sustaining colony than one that relies on raiding." "This thread is not a discussion if its construction is a good idea or not. its a discussion of how one would achieve such a goal." -First thing I wrote. @pedroasani I dont know how flammable it is. Probably as flammable hydrogen. If you are looking for 100% safety I am afraid that helium is the only way. But in a world where just walking outside would kill you safety rules will be relative. and as I said earlier. I would prefer getting blown up before getting my intestines torn out before getting my brain eaten. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Akerris	13. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 21 2009, 3:21 PM EDT \| Post edited: Sep 21 2009, 3:25 PM EDT ""This thread is not a discussion if its construction is a good idea or not. its a discussion of how one would achieve such a goal." -First thing I wrote. @pedroasani I dont know how flammable it is. Probably as flammable hydrogen. If you are looking for 100% safety I am afraid that helium is the only way. But in a world where just walking outside would kill you safety rules will be relative. and as I said earlier. I would prefer getting blown up before getting my intestines torn out before getting my brain eaten." I know it's the first thing you wrote, but why make a thread for something that's entirely implausible even for a zombie site and talk it up like you're serious about it. If you're too ill prepared to fight off zombies on the way to loot a store then how can you possibly ever prepare to use a blimp!?!? In my opinion the first thing you stated was a cop out so I ignored it..... How one would do this? They wouldn't, so move on to more realistic options or seriously downsize your blimp... Post reply 1 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Eritsukukun	14. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 21 2009, 5:05 PM EDT "I know it's the first thing you wrote, but why make a thread for something that's entirely implausible even for a zombie site and talk it up like you're serious about it. If you're too ill prepared to fight off zombies on the way to loot a store then how can you possibly ever prepare to use a blimp!?!? In my opinion the first thing you stated was a cop out so I ignored it..... How one would do this? They wouldn't, so move on to more realistic options or seriously downsize your blimp..." I wrote that so that I wouldn't need to have this discussion because its really not entertaining. with a zeppelin you can travel great distances with large amounts of goods. that means: -travelling over great distances with large amounts of goods -connecting with other settlements and trade resources -scavenge large amounts of good in a relatively safe way (some countries don't have 10 guns per capita) -counter attack (it can be used as a weapons platform or even luring a zombie mob away from you settlement and over the nearest cliff or even out the ocean. this will also be handy when scavenging by draining a small town on zombies) -scouting missions (drawing maps of surroundings and finding new places to settle) sure there are always alternatives to making a zeppelin. But this thread is about zeppelins and how they can be useful while taking risks into consideration. its a imaginative experiment and a exercise in problem solving. by your reasoning this entire site can be made into one sentence "zombies don't exist." But where is the entertainment value in that? what is the use of that? Post reply 5 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
StrykerPez	15. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 21 2009, 5:46 PM EDT The Hindenburg actually caught fire so horrifically not because of the hydrogen (that didn't help) but because of the aluminum and iron oxide coated skin. Apparently the Germans thought that paint made out of basically Thermite was a good idea. A static discharge ignited the skin, which burst into flame, and then the hydrogen ignited. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
EgAce	16. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 21 2009, 9:10 PM EDT Look, we understand what you're saying. It's just impractical. That is why they were only used for a few years. I admit, if you could make it so that it didn't leak, and had the initial resources, it would be awesome. Go ahead and find a way to do that. And there is a difference between impractical and implausible. Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Eritsukukun	17. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 22 2009, 5:31 AM EDT "The Hindenburg actually caught fire so horrifically not because of the hydrogen (that didn't help) but because of the aluminum and iron oxide coated skin. Apparently the Germans thought that paint made out of basically Thermite was a good idea. A static discharge ignited the skin, which burst into flame, and then the hydrogen ignited. " From what Ive read its a hearsay started by companies promoting hydrogen for cars. for full details read this article http://www.airships.net/blog/hindenburg-covering-rocket-fuel the site also contains all kinds of good stuff about zeppelins. that is not the point however. safety concerns are indeed important but considering that you now live in a hostile world that can kill you at any moment you will be relatively safe. @ post 16 by EgAce they were used only for a couple of years because the world evolved beyond its usefulness because planes could do the same thing. they could do the same thing because society arranged it that way but in a post apocalyptic world you can no longer rely on airports and fine engineering. the things airplanes rely on becomes useless and the zeppelin does not. this is one of many example of readopting outdated technology because it suits the new conditions. "I admit, if you could make it so that it didn't leak, and had the initial resources, it would be awesome. Go ahead and find a way to do that." That is the point of this thread. Post reply 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Akerris	18. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 22 2009, 8:03 AM EDT "From what Ive read its a hearsay started by companies promoting hydrogen for cars. for full details read this article http://www.airships.net/blog/hindenburg-covering-rocket-fuel the site also contains all kinds of good stuff about zeppelins. that is not the point however. safety concerns are indeed important but considering that you now live in a hostile world that can kill you at any moment you will be relatively safe. @ post 16 by EgAce they were used only for a couple of years because the world evolved beyond its usefulness because planes could do the same thing. they could do the same thing because society arranged it that way but in a post apocalyptic world you can no longer rely on airports and fine engineering. the things airplanes rely on becomes useless and the zeppelin does not. this is one of many example of readopting outdated technology because it suits the new conditions. "I admit, if you could make it so that it didn't leak, and had the initial resources, it would be awesome. Go ahead and find a way to do that." That is the point of this thread." I'm all about the idea of readopting so called outdated technology, hence why I love the warhammer. However, since you want to be the director of the discussion, here's my two cents. Think very small. The frame should be wicker or wood, and the propulsion should be manual, even if its a rotor attached to a bicycle. Unfortunately hydrogen is your best bet for gas, unless you run across a balloon store. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
EgAce	19. RE: Building a zeppelin/blimp from scratch. Sep 22 2009, 10:28 AM EDT "they were used only for a couple of years because the world evolved beyond its usefulness because planes could do the same thing. they could do the same thing because society arranged it that way but in a post apocalyptic world you can no longer rely on airports and fine engineering. the things airplanes rely on becomes useless and the zeppelin does not. this is one of many example of readopting outdated technology because it suits the new conditions." Could do the same thing, for less. I believe that the huge costs of maintaining a blimp are a turnoff to companies. And the Blimp/Zepplin itself is a fine piece of engineering. It has a huge, delicate frame, hundreds of ballons that must be maintained, and a huge amount of resorces. I'm all for it, but we must find a way to expend much, much less gas (hydrogen, helium). Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?

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