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Discussion: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
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DLOWTHEMAD |
SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 23 2009, 5:34 PM EDT
Any shotgun shell can be quickly modified to give it more penetration, say to shoot trhough a car door or currogated steel wall, and still retain stopping power. Simply score the shotgun shell deeply level with the wad with a sharp knife(you should have one any way since it would not need reloading). do this and the upper end of the shell containing the load will detatch completely and travel as a large slug... upon striking a hard surface it will panetrate then open like a standard shotgun shell and release the load in the standard fashion. I got this info in the military, and have seen it work-- the range of the weapon will be cut in half-- however this can get you past difficult shots with out repositioning a squad member or fire team
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Keyword tags:
armor piercing
Shotgun Specialty Ammo
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NorCal_Survivors |
1. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 23 2009, 7:46 PM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 7:50 PM EDT
Why would I modify an existing shell and risk the extreme likelihood of jacking up both the shell AND my weapon, especially when there are purpose-built armor-piercing (AP) rounds available for shotguns which function reliably?Why would the plastic shell impart AP properties to buckshot in any way superior to a hard slug or sabot? Why would it be more AP than a decent solid copper sabot? Even a Brenneke SF Short Mag slug will outperform what you describe by a long shot. Plenty of rounds - like Federal LE 00 - have a "flight control" wad system which keeps the shot in the cup entirely for short distances ... exactly as you describe ... none of them are known to exhibit any special AP capability. The shotgun is not the primary weapon of any current RTFA fireteam, so I have no idea what you are talking about regarding "difficult shots", etc. ... they all ready have weaponry with superior AP performance. Do you find this valuable? |
#4buck |
2. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 23 2009, 9:20 PM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 9:24 PM EDT
Am I wrong in thinking that an ordinary 12 ga. slug fired from 20 or 30 yards will go through one car door, and maybe two, if it doesn't break up on some safety reinforcing or something?If I was going to experiment with modifying shotgun ammo I'd try seating a surplus, hardened steel flechette in the nose of a slug and see if maybe that would punch through materials that the soft lead wouldn't. Do you find this valuable? |
Freelancer47 |
3. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 23 2009, 9:59 PM EDT
"Am I wrong in thinking that an ordinary 12 ga. slug fired from 20 or 30 yards will go through one car door, and maybe two, if it doesn't break up on some safety reinforcing or something?"Nope, you are not wrong. Your average .308 will penetrate 6 inches of Construction Concrete. A 12 Gauge slug will penetrate plenty... I know, I've done it. Mud Brick House? Check Heavy Oak Door? Check Car Engine Block? Check Most rifle & Shotgun rounds go through more than people think. It's one of the reasons that my local Ma & Pa Gun Store owners keep preaching to people the following for home defense... not to mention, that I agree: "Go With Bird Shot! #8 to #6. Anything within 10 meters is going to feel the impact, not to mention that Bird Shot will stick in plaster walls for the most part. You have to consider what is behind the Contact point of Engagement. If you are in a house and have kids, your wife, your husband, your roommates... you don't want them getting hurt." My .02 -Freelancer47 Do you find this valuable? |
Littlejon126 |
4. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 24 2009, 1:09 AM EDT
"Am I wrong in thinking that an ordinary 12 ga. slug fired from 20 or 30 yards will go through one car door, and maybe two, if it doesn't break up on some safety reinforcing or something?A 12 gauge slug fired from 20 yards will go through the plate glass used on an armored car with a relatively high degree of reliability. When I worked at Garda, when I drove (which was 90% of the time) my greatest personal concern was a guy armed with a shotgun. Most everything else won't penetrate in a first shot (barring .50 BMG's or 20mm cannon shells!). Actually... I saw a video online about 12 gauge slug penetration... can't remember where though. Good vid. Do you find this valuable? |
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DLOWTHEMAD |
5. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 26 2009, 6:00 PM EDT
"Why would I modify an existing shell and risk the extreme likelihood of jacking up both the shell AND my weapon, especially when there are purpose-built armor-piercing (AP) rounds available for shotguns which function reliably?You presume to have an armory available at all times, this is unlikely, i simply passed along a trick i learned and have tried, ant to be fair i did misstate a little, the goal of said shot would be to extend the time till the laod breaks up, preferably until after it is past your medium to heavy cover--- fyi i learned this trick from an fbi hostage team member--- and difficult shots for the shotgun wielding zombie world refugee not the paramilitary personnel who is trained--- i wish to give the untrained gas station attentant a chance at surviving while the folks who are quiblling over wether he has his flachette rounds in gets eaten Do you find this valuable? |
brandon_a_boyer |
6. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 26 2009, 8:48 PM EDT
F-L-E-C-H-E-T-T-E-S were tested by the US during the Vietnam war. They were ineffective, causing lethal wounds, but failing to provide stopping powerThere are only two shotgun rounds you need in a combat situation. 00 buckshot (buck and ball is great too) and slugs neither of which have any issue penetrating through steel walls or car doors. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot5.htm or indoor walls http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14_3.htm Do you find this valuable? |
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NorCal_Survivors |
7. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 27 2009, 12:03 AM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 27 2009, 12:27 AM EDT
Well, let's see here.First the OP "got this info in the military", but later says he "learned this trick from an fbi hostage team member". A pattern begins to form. Of course the simple fact that this "trick" belies any understanding of how a standard shell works and why you 100% DO NOT WANT that tube of expanding (sometime melting!) plastic going down your bore under any circumstances. You be much smarter to simply buy certain kinds of 00 or #4 buck and epoxy or glue the shot cup (not the shell) closed. Simple slugs and especially Brennekes will do a much better job. Copper sabots will be even better. No special armory is required. You can go to your local sporting goods store or order thme online anytime you like. Why pretend any expertise when you clearly don't know even the basics of the weapon system? Why is this "trick" even needed? I called around to some family members and friends, Navy SEAL and SWAT types ... nobody ever heard of this, and most pointed out the obvious probability of screwing up your shotgun. I've gotta agree with them (and Brandon) on this one. Do you find this valuable? |
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DLOWTHEMAD |
8. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 27 2009, 9:08 AM EDT
Again i state if someone has double aught available then that would be the load to use-- i just put a little bit of trivia out there-- i personally believe that little bits of odd info likethis might be useful- i will go so far to state that this is not something i reccomend an every day enthusiast us to play around--- and you never have to use this info-- i simply wanted to share info i had gleaned(btw where else would i meet an HRT team member but in the military i am not in law enforcment the only access i have ever had to that kind of info is there--- again i have tried this, it does work, btw if the plastic was gonna melt it would wether it was stiil around the load or in the breach while it was exposed to the majority of the heat produced-- i'm not going to argue-- i simply sare information i feel might be useful to someone w/o all the training others might have-- hate to say it but we regular folk don't wanna be zed chow either
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NorCal_Survivors |
9. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 27 2009, 3:45 PM EDT
The advice you are giving has a high likelihood of damaging the shotgun or injuring/killing the shooter. It's tremendously irresponsible to post crap like this and continue to defend it.Since a common sense understanding of the weapons mechanics is lacking, I'd simply recommend that anyone tempted to try this nonsense CALL MOSSBERG, REMINGTON, BENELLI or any competent gunsmith. They can explain to you why you are doing something SERIOUSLY STUPID if you try this, and then you don't have to take my word for it. Do you find this valuable? |
inu-dude25 |
10. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 27 2009, 3:57 PM EDT
I think the motto of this is, for all of the ZSDW users; If you're thinking of posting instructions for an idea that may:A) Cause damage to personal property of the user or others B) May cause bodily injury to the user or others C) May cause uncontrollable fires D) May cause legal trouble for the user Keep it to yourself! There are plenty of other sites with information on how to create redneck flamethrowers, illegally modified weapons and ammunition and such. There's no need to get this site in any trouble because you just had to share your half-brained ideas and someone was killed, maimed, or sued as a result.. Do you find this valuable? |
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DLOWTHEMAD |
11. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 27 2009, 4:16 PM EDT
if i felt as though i were spreading irresponsible crap, i wouldn't post it, i've got some stupid stuff stories-- good god i bought a improvised explosives fm one time-- friend wanted to borrow it(this was my stupid move) and ended up dropping a tree on his parents house... i learned my lesson about spreading stupid knowledge-- if ya'll think that i'm trying to cause problems nothing could be farther from the truth, however i felt like posting this theory(yes it has been tested, so it's not a hypothesis) might help someone one day, however due to extreme negative response i will contact a mod myself and have the thread stricken from the record
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DLOWTHEMAD |
12. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 27 2009, 4:23 PM EDT
i just sent iron hand the message-- i suspect will make it to the idiot thread also -- hope this won't sour you guys on me --
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NorCal_Survivors |
13. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 27 2009, 6:06 PM EDT
I don't think there is any reason to delete this thread, as it serves as a good object lesson of sorts.You "standing down" on this issue speaks of greater maturity than most exhibit on this board, so it's unlikely that anyone thinks ill of you. If there is any interest, I can go into great technical detail why the modified 00 shell trick is not such a great idea. Do you find this valuable? |
possumblaster |
14. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 27 2009, 6:20 PM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 27 2009, 6:23 PM EDT
Wow, I don't really see what's so bad about the idea. In real life, you aren't always going to have the necessary ammo to deal with the situation. Take the information for what it's worth. It's just an idea, if you don't want to try it then don't. Everyone must be in a bad mood today or something.Scoring a shotgun casing isn't near as dangerous as people out there talking about home-made flamethrowers and silencers. If you make your own steel silencer and a baffle comes loose inside you can very easily shoot yourself in the face. I have heard much worse here. I don't think a 3" magnum shotgun which can handle about twice the pressure would have any problem shooting a 2 3/4" shell that is scored on the sides. I'm not the shotgun expert though. Do you find this valuable? |
ironhand |
15. RE: SHOTGUNS CAN BE MODIFIED TO PIERCE ARMOR/COVER
Oct 27 2009, 8:02 PM EDT
Hi all,We (mods) really don't delete things as a rule, but I will lock this as per requested from DLOWTHEMAD. I will say this.... sometimes discussions are good just to learn from. Whether from the topic or the experience : ) thanks to all here......thread locked. Do you find this valuable? |
