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White76Knight	180. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 6 2012, 12:34 PM EDT "11) Napalm and air strikes, will do some damage, but will not stop a horde, because the brain needs to be destroyed and air strikes kill by sudden nerve trauma and shrapnel, and the chances of shrapnel hitting the brain are low. A few zombies will be stopped, but not the entire horde." I think you've mapped out everything else pretty decently, but I do disagree with this last bit. Air strikes (and artillery strikes, while we're at it) typically deliver high explosive ordinance of one variety or another, and while there is certainly a shrapnel component to such ordnance, the overpressure caused by the explosives alone will turn flesh (including brain tissue) and bone alike into jelly even without the shrapnel. Plus, I think that shrapnel too will result in headshot type kills as well, because much of this ordnance generates hundreds if not thousands of shrapnel fragments which travel in all directions. "In all directions" includes whatever direction the head happens to be in just as well as the rest of the body. And even if the shrapnel doesn't enter the brain, and the overpressure doesn't destroy the brain anyway, this ordnance would rend zombies limb from limb, which would certainly make them zero or near zero threat. A conflagration of Napalm likewise will burn/boil brain tissue quite handily and, even when the brain does survive, the body would be so badly charred that the zombie would no longer be much of a threat. All told I think that air and artillery strikes will decimate zombies. The trouble is that the military may well hesitate to use them for fear of collateral damage or noncombatant casualties. Post reply 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
DevilNuts	181. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 7 2012, 2:06 PM EDT \| Post edited: Sep 7 2012, 2:06 PM EDT "I think the military would eventually lose because: 1) Most of our forces would be wearing full MOPP-44 gear, Which can supposedly reduce combat capabilities by 30%-50%, also reducing vision." Full MOPP-4 (mission oriented protective posture) just means gas mask with boots, gloves, and chemical oversuit. Our troops wore MOPP-4 during Desert Storm and also OIF and we werent combat ineffective there. Its uncomfortable, hot and miserable and inconvenient, but will not cripple our forces. Post reply 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
cas13f	182. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 10 2012, 10:23 PM EDT "Full MOPP-4 (mission oriented protective posture) just means gas mask with boots, gloves, and chemical oversuit. Our troops wore MOPP-4 during Desert Storm and also OIF and we werent combat ineffective there. Its uncomfortable, hot and miserable and inconvenient, but will not cripple our forces. " It's a godsend in this great white north. Doesn't fit over the marshmallow suit though. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
chitoryu12	183. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 11 2012, 12:12 AM EDT Remember, napalm isn't the same as filling a bottle with gasoline and tossing it at a zombie's feet, or lighting its shirt on fire with a torch. It burns more than hot enough to quickly cause severe brain damage and will stick to anyone and anything it hits, so it WILL continue burning until long after the zombies have fallen down and can't get up. The disadvantage of napalm is not the fear of flaming zombies assaulting your positions (because if you're dropping it close enough to your own lines that they'll reach the soldiers before they die, there's a severe problem before the napalm got dropped), but rather the difficulty in controlling the damage and containing and extinguishing the fire afterward. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
White76Knight	184. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 11 2012, 9:50 AM EDT "It's a godsend in this great white north. Doesn't fit over the marshmallow suit though." Conversely, will the marshmallow suit fit over the MOPP Gear? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DevilNuts	185. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 11 2012, 11:18 AM EDT "Conversely, will the marshmallow suit fit over the MOPP Gear?" Thats not really how it works... The suit is designed to be the outer layer, protecting everything inside from contamination. Any layer outside of that will be considered contaminated in an exposure situation and should be disposed of. Plus, MOPP level 4 requires the hood of the suit to be drawn over the gas mask, which wouldnt be feasible with an outer layer. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
White76Knight	186. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 11 2012, 3:51 PM EDT \| Post edited: Sep 11 2012, 3:52 PM EDT "Plus, MOPP level 4 requires the hood of the suit to be drawn over the gas mask, which wouldnt be feasible with an outer layer. " I'm not clear on this part. Why would it not be feasible to draw the hood of the suit over the mask and then add another layer over that? Assuming that, as you said, the outer layer were something that you didn't mind disposing of later on. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
11ACRBlackhorse	187. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 11 2012, 11:04 PM EDT "1) Most of our forces would be wearing full MOPP-44 gear, Which can supposedly reduce combat capabilities by 30%-50%, also reducing vision." As DN stated so well. They train for using MOPP-4. Depending on outside weather and location it might not be so much a handicap. Also depending on hoe it's spread rain gear could be enough with masks. Now masks vary depending on unit, MOS, and if active/guard. Some have dual lenses and otger full face shield. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
11ACRBlackhorse	188. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 11 2012, 11:12 PM EDT "2) Around 500,000 Us military members are stationed overseas, And will likeley be unable to get back to the US, as ships and aircraft will be used for supply drops and Evacuation." This is likely if it happens fast. If it builds up slowly they can be flown back easily with limited gear. But personal weapons will definitely be easily done. Resupply on the ground can be done with escorts equipped with armor with blades to force open and maintain supply routes. They could even use armored vehicles for supply. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
11ACRBlackhorse	189. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 11 2012, 11:23 PM EDT "3) At first, people will not realise that the 'zombies' have to be killed, and will try to arrest or detain the infected." The Florida Face Eating incident shows otherwise. With aids and other diseases out there on top of drugs LE and other first responders already have practiced and written SOP for similar scenarios. LE won't let first responders get near a threat. So yes this will happen occasionally but more than likely not. And the first report or rumor it is spread by biting or touch. It will be shoot if they don't obey orders. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
11ACRBlackhorse	190. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 11 2012, 11:32 PM EDT "4) when people realise the infcted must be killed, they will not know they yhave to be killed by headshots, and will waste a lot of ammunition on the centre mass." Again the Florida face eating incident plus standard SOP if a body shot don't work they will go for a head shot. Especially after the Hollywood Shooting and Aurora shooting that the perps wore body armor. And once it works it will quickly be know even in Mayberry USA. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
11ACRBlackhorse	191. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 12 2012, 12:20 AM EDT "5) Even when they realise that zombies can only be killed by headshots, the troops and leo's will not be able to make headshots every time." True they won't get head shots every time. But with the flat trajectory and ballistics of the 556/223 on a M4 platform with modern red dot/reflex sights it will be easier than iron sights. Plus call it on the job training/practice. The more they do it the better they will get. Now it's not a cake walk but it's not rocket science either. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
11ACRBlackhorse	192. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 12 2012, 1:03 AM EDT \| Post edited: Sep 12 2012, 1:19 AM EDT "6) Assuming they are the zombies from 'The Walking Dead' everyone who dies will come back, and that i impossible to contain." Yes it would be hard to combat. But once it's figured out all carry the virus then SOP will change to watch any dead for turning.And when noticed a quick knife, bullet, or other means of dispatching them wull become the norm. And then I see it morphing into once death is sure a mercy killing will be the order of the day. Now it won't be easy but it's not insurmountable. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
11ACRBlackhorse	193. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 12 2012, 1:17 AM EDT "7) How many soldiers will continue fighting, when they know there family could be being torn apart by ravenous dead cannibals? Many LEO's and Troops will desert to save there familys." This will be a problem to a point. Most NCOs and lots of lower ranks and officers will have family evacuated/relocated to post. So they will have plenty of reason to keep fighting and keep the runners under a watchful eye. Then National Guard and Reserves will be more than likely more locally. So they will have even a more vested interest in staying and fighting. For everyone that will desert/run at the first chance. You will have others that will do their sacred duty to the last. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
11ACRBlackhorse	194. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 12 2012, 2:00 AM EDT "8) Eventually the troops will run out of ammunition, no matter how much you have, it will run out, and supplies will be stopped, because of the refugee traffick, and helicopters need fuel, and the supply problem continues." Refugees will hinder supply. But access to fuel is a lot easier than you think. Almost every state has multiple fuel loading points. A lot are supplied by pipelines. And when it starts getting critical all domestic supply in the effected areas will stop. Fuel drivers like me will be recruited if needed. If it gets real bad they can load bladders right at the loading racks lot and use helicopters to take it out. Blade equip some heavy armor and or use recovery vehicles. They can clear lanes through the congestion. And send a few AFVs/APCs to escort the fuel/supply convoys. All important supply locations will be secured and every available resource used to fight it. And as stated by others they will fly and ship in all the available supplies from all over the world. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
11ACRBlackhorse	195. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 12 2012, 2:11 AM EDT "9) How many soldiers will follow orders, and shoot everyone infected, and how many will refuse to soot, unless they are getting ovverrun?" That will be a tough one. There will be some that will have lots of issues with shooting infected. But regretfully there are some that will do anything if ordered. Then a lot will do it because it will protect them, their fellow soldiers, and family/friends. Now if infected means "zombies" it will be easier than someone looking and acting normal. To say all will or wont isn't realistic. The only way we will ever know is when it ever happens. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
11ACRBlackhorse	196. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 12 2012, 2:21 AM EDT "10) The military will not be eployed until it is far to late." This can be true. But this also depends a lot on how fast it spreads. And how fast they figure out how it is spread. We all know politicians can procrastinate till the last moment. But once their state and or city is threatened they will be screaming for everything to be used to contain or destroy it. Considering they have family and friends in the effected areas. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
11ACRBlackhorse	197. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 12 2012, 2:50 AM EDT "11) Napalm and air strikes, will do some damage, but will not stop a horde, because the brain needs to be destroyed and air strikes kill by sudden nevre trauma and shrapnel, and the chances of shrapnel hitting the brain are low. A few zombies will be stopped, but not the entrie horde." This was covered by others (mainly WK) But a 5000lb bomb will destroy lots just by the concussion alone. It will rip others apart. Artillery and other strikes will not be done in ones. They will imploy them in masd where ever needed. Employment of bomblets are designed for troop concentrations. A indirect fire or air strike will decimate whole sections/areas. Then you have canister for tanks and artillery that will clear streets easily. Napalm will be used when appropriate. You will already have fires by accident or set by people taking advantage of the situation. So burning down a few city blocks won't be a huge issue in a out of control infected city. And I can see napalm being used to clense sections of a city of the infection. Bombs, artillery, mortars, and napalm with claymores and landmines will be employed where appropriate and needed. And they will be effective especially against hordes. A dismembered zed will be easier to finish off. Even in the thousands. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
philsansone	198. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 12 2012, 3:00 AM EDT "This will be a problem to a point. Most NCOs and lots of lower ranks and officers will have family evacuated/relocated to post. So they will have plenty of reason to keep fighting and keep the runners under a watchful eye. Then National Guard and Reserves will be more than likely more locally. So they will have even a more vested interest in staying and fighting. For everyone that will desert/run at the first chance. You will have others that will do their sacred duty to the last." I would leave to find my family. I guess I wouldn't help the problem, but I've chosen my priorities. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
11ACRBlackhorse	199. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Sep 12 2012, 3:04 AM EDT "Thats not really how it works... The suit is designed to be the outer layer, protecting everything inside from contamination. Any layer outside of that will be considered contaminated in an exposure situation and should be disposed of. Plus, MOPP level 4 requires the hood of the suit to be drawn over the gas mask, which wouldnt be feasible with an outer layer. " It could of changed but the hood was part of the gas mask. And yes anything worn on the outside of the MOP gear is considered contaminated. And depending on if it can be decontaminated it will be destroyed or decontaminated. Snow smocks can be worn in the outside but that's for camouflage only. And will be destroyed when changing or decontaminat. Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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