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FrenchLegion	80. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 2:45 PM EDT "In WW1 you were still unable to remove the Germans from your soil without outside help. You managed to stop the Boche 60 miles from Paris and that was it for four years. So even with an intact government you did not have the national will to win. The military will make do and improvise, adapt and overcome. Although I do expect them to create safe zones at first, like in the Rockies etc. Over time the military would go back on the offensive and start clearing areas of the country. There will always be some form of govt that will make it through. " You're only half-right: we didn't have the national will to win until later in the war. Pre-war, the French shared a common hatred of the Germans, chiefly over the Alsace-Lorraine region. When World War I, every side expected the conflict to be over by Christmas. Needless to say, I don't think by 1917 there was a European combatant that had much national unity. There might be a form of government that might survive, but do you honestly think it will have control over all existing military units, the ones that weren't overrun by zombies? As for having safe zones in the Rockies....well, I really don't see safe zones in the Rockies working for the long-term. Do you realize how many zombies will emerge from the west coast? And lord forbid once the east coast undead links up with them. I don't think anything less than a NORAD-like fortress will be able to withstand a megaswarm of that size (and even then, it will all be a matter of keeping the soldiers fed and watered). Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
LWJ2009	81. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 4:00 PM EDT "You're only half-right: we didn't have the national will to win until later in the war. Pre-war, the French shared a common hatred of the Germans, chiefly over the Alsace-Lorraine region. When World War I, every side expected the conflict to be over by Christmas. Needless to say, I don't think by 1917 there was a European combatant that had much national unity. There might be a form of government that might survive, but do you honestly think it will have control over all existing military units, the ones that weren't overrun by zombies? As for having safe zones in the Rockies....well, I really don't see safe zones in the Rockies working for the long-term. Do you realize how many zombies will emerge from the west coast? And lord forbid once the east coast undead links up with them. I don't think anything less than a NORAD-like fortress will be able to withstand a megaswarm of that size (and even then, it will all be a matter of keeping the soldiers fed and watered)." You did not get the will to win until late 1917 when the AEF began to show up and shoulder some of the load. You could have stopped the Germans cold in 1914, however you dropped the ball. I think the govt would have control over most of the military, not all units but the majority. I live in the Rockies, so yes you can create zones. They are easy to defend and against zombies you can dictate the ops tempo and pick your engagements. Not to mention the winters out here will help greatly. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Whybother08	82. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 4:09 PM EDT sighs at yet another US vs Europe debate Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DevilNuts	83. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 4:26 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 28 2009, 4:27 PM EDT " I really want to hear how you people think the US military will act without strategic direction." Small clarification: The military is NEVER without strategic direction. That being said, the worst you would have to deal with is how the military would act without "updated" strategic direction. But there is never a time when commanders are not tasked with something to do. We EARN our paychecks, each and ever day - even if it is only training, or maintenance stand down. Keep in mind that each unit is aware of the others in the area, all have local logistical support in the form of communications, and there will be inter-service communication from the first day on. The DMS classified read-boards will be overflowing with messages. There WILL be communication, there will remain a chain of command and someone will always be available to give some measure of direction, even if there is no overall end game plan available. You are talking about people who have made a career and a lifestyle out of learning how to think on their feet. Continuous action is applied at every level. Post reply 5 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
timberrattler	84. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 4:46 PM EDT " You are talking about people who have made a career and a lifestyle out of learning how to think on their feet. Continuous action is applied at every level." Isn't there an old Marine saying that goes, "We don't plan, we improvise"? Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
HighSpeed	85. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 5:03 PM EDT "sighs at yet another US vs Europe debate" This was Europe (France specifically) vs US was getting to be annoying until I started looking at WWI and the 1918 flu pandemic. VERY interesting reading. Forget about the whole French vs U.S. debate. Look at how militaries fight in the middle of a pandemic. Aproximately 5% of the world population died due to the disease - 3 x more than due to the war itself. This disease was airborne and infected about 1/3 of the world pouplation. This virus, a version of the H1N1 going around today, had only a 10-20% moratlity rate. For contrast, the proposed viruses Rage and Solanium are not airborne so the transmission rate is lower but the mortality rate is nearly 100% for both. Then, instead of quielty expiring, they try to eat you, thus converting you into a vector for the disease. Read my prior posts on the topic - the command and control structure for the military will continue. Civil services will stiop. SWET Sewer Water Electricity Telephone and police, fire and EMS will most likely break down in every city and most smaller towns. But the military has planned for Total War in America for 90 years and will survive in one form or another. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
MajorDamage	86. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 6:36 PM EDT yeah! what HighSpeedy said. wait, didn't I write that already using less words?? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
CJWalkows	87. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 6:59 PM EDT to end this US V Europe debate, WE ARE ALLIES lets leave it at that. those alliances and the United States Rise to power was because the european nations always wared with one another and eventually got their gratest creating involved. the USA. but the bottom line is we are still allies. and is the USA really europes gratest creation? thats debateable. spanish american war lead to american imperialism world war one lead to us being a larger global player and a friend to the nations of france and the united kingdom world war two seen america replace the UK as the worlds leading navy and its emergance as a super power. the cold war seen america allie itself with western european nations. all cause one euro nation or another starts some kind of conflict. also RAGE virus is just insane zombe like humans, they are supceptable to chemical nerve agents, zombies are not. they also starve as zombies do not. dont get me wrong the RAGE virus is cool :) and id prefer that over a zombe virus any day also to show that i do indeed support our country which i do, look at the french carrier compared to a american one, our carriers are huge. then again we are a global superpower and we need all these huge naval assets. speaking of which i beleive that out of the US military branches the navy would have a good chance of surviving the longest, so long as the ships and subs at sea durring the outbrake stayed there. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
FrenchLegion	88. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 7:20 PM EDT "to end this US V Europe debate, WE ARE ALLIES lets leave it at that. those alliances and the United States Rise to power was because the european nations always wared with one another and eventually got their gratest creating involved. the USA. but the bottom line is we are still allies. and is the USA really europes gratest creation? thats debateable. spanish american war lead to american imperialism world war one lead to us being a larger global player and a friend to the nations of france and the united kingdom world war two seen america replace the UK as the worlds leading navy and its emergance as a super power. the cold war seen america allie itself with western european nations. all cause one euro nation or another starts some kind of conflict. also RAGE virus is just insane zombe like humans, they are supceptable to chemical nerve agents, zombies are not. they also starve as zombies do not. dont get me wrong the RAGE virus is cool :) and id prefer that over a zombe virus any day also to show that i do indeed support our country which i do, look at the french carrier compared to a american one, our carriers are huge. then again we are a global superpower and we need all these huge naval assets. speaking of which i beleive that out of the US military branches the navy would have a good chance of surviving the longest, so long as the ships and subs at sea durring the outbrake stayed there. " Agreed, but let's try to stay as on-topic as possible. Franco-American debate=OVER. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Freelancer47	89. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 7:30 PM EDT "Did you just contradict yourself? You said "the military of pretty much all nations will do just fine", and in the next sentence, you say "few things are going to be definitive in the Zed Poc". So you're definite that the militaries will survive as a cohesive force? And what if they don't?" No I didn't. The military's of the world will do fine. YOU are making the definitive statement of 'this is what Zeds WILL do'. Again, if you re-read my post you might understand better... If I'm unclear about something please ask.... Military's survive as a cohesive force? I'm willing to bet in most cases 'Yes', it depends on that Nations Military Doctrine... If they don't? Well, that's too bad... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Freelancer47	90. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 7:38 PM EDT "Agreed, but let's try to stay as on-topic as possible. Franco-American debate=OVER." France Sucks! Except for the Women... And the Good Wine... And the Cuisine... And the Thousands of years of history... And the Beaches... And the.... Nevermind... France is cool X-D. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Freelancer47	91. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 7:48 PM EDT "to end this US V Europe debate, WE ARE ALLIES..." I like your points CJW, some people forgot some facts: France Helped the Colonists back during, what we keep getting told is the title, the Revolutionary War. I like to call it the 'Colonists Revolt'. I will admit, it's my day off & I'm lazy. Much of this is 'cut & paste' from wikipedia & some foot notes: "The capture of a British army at Saratoga encouraged the French to formally enter the war in support of Congress, as Benjamin Franklin negotiated a permanent military alliance in early 1778, significantly becoming the first country to officially recognize the Declaration of Independence." Jonathan Dull, A Diplomatic History of the American Revolution (1985) pp 57-65; Edward F. Butler, "Spain's Involvement in the American Revolutionary War" The SAR Magazine Vol. 104 No. 1 France in the American Revolution: Benjamin Franklin, dispatched to France in December of 1776 to rally her support, and was welcomed with great enthusiasm, as numerous Frenchmen embarked for the Americas volunteer for the patriot war effort. Motivated by the prospect of glory in battle and/or animated by the sincere ideals of liberty and republicanism, volunteers included the likes of Pierre Charles L'Enfant, and La Fayette, who enlisted in 1776. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolutionary_War As a foot note: "LE BLUE!!!" Post reply Do you find this valuable?
FrenchLegion	92. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 7:54 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 28 2009, 7:55 PM EDT "No I didn't. The military's of the world will do fine. YOU are making the definitive statement of 'this is what Zeds WILL do'. Again, if you re-read my post you might understand better... If I'm unclear about something please ask.... Military's survive as a cohesive force? I'm willing to bet in most cases 'Yes', it depends on that Nations Military Doctrine... If they don't? Well, that's too bad..." Even I am not completely positive of what will and won't happen, and when I say "this WILL happen" or so on, I always realize that anything else could happen. That would be determined by many factors, not least of what kind of zombie we're talking about and how contagious the virus is. I believe the same can happen to militaries, regardless of how powerful it is. Many factors might dramatically affect the status of a military, including, again, the zombie type (heavens forbid if it's the L4D ones), and so on. In Layman's Terms: Chaos theory. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Freelancer47	93. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 7:57 PM EDT "Even I am not completely positive of what will and won't happen, and when I say "this WILL happen" or so on..." Ok, alright... I'll admit I'm arguing Semantics here. I'll play fair, here's what I believe. "Return of the Living Dead" Zeds: we're all gonna die. "Night of the Living Dead" Zeds: this is a threat, really? "L4D" Zeds: this might be fun... "28 days/weeks"Zeds: OK, board up the windows... New York Lock the Doors... fill the bath tubs... we're sitting it out for the long haul... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
VBDE	94. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 8:20 PM EDT Just to chime in a bit on france and USA ; They helped your ass big-time during the revolution, it's no more than fair that you helped their ass during the world wars, am i not correct? ;) All in all, the military will survive, maybe not as it is today, but they will have the weapons, the will and the know-to to fight and kill. I mean even if the troops go rogue they will still be able to organize once they link together and kick the **** out of the common enemy of all mankind. FL47 ; NOTD wont be a problem at all, they are afraid of fire so sleeping near a fire would provide you with some sort of immunity, right? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
FrenchLegion	95. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 8:37 PM EDT "Ok, alright... I'll admit I'm arguing Semantics here. I'll play fair, here's what I believe. "Return of the Living Dead" Zeds: we're all gonna die. "Night of the Living Dead" Zeds: this is a threat, really? "L4D" Zeds: this might be fun... "28 days/weeks"Zeds: OK, board up the windows... New York Lock the Doors... fill the bath tubs... we're sitting it out for the long haul..." What about the Solanum zombies? Morningstar zombies? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Freelancer47	96. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 8:48 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 28 2009, 8:50 PM EDT "What about the Solanum zombies? Morningstar zombies?" Solanium Zombies? I thought that was covered with the 'NOTLD" quote. Morningstar Zombies? I don't know anything about that aside from what You & PedroAsani mentioned about it... I'm still looking for the book's. It sounds intriguing... Edit also, I can't BELIEVE you didn't one up me for the 'Do you find this valuble' with post #91 with 'Le Blue!!!' at the bottom... I'm guessing you're not a fan of the French Football team? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Freelancer47	97. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 8:52 PM EDT " FL47 ; NOTD wont be a problem at all, they are afraid of fire so sleeping near a fire would provide you with some sort of immunity, right?" Well, I would hope so. The thing is, too, is that the NOTD Zombies are pretty easy to get by. They shamble, they groan, poor sense of direction, smell like bad meat, and don't play Blackjack... easy to spot. I don't see a problem with just staying undetected by them, hence I don't see them as a major problem... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
mudroll	98. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 10:20 PM EDT "Ok, alright... I'll admit I'm arguing Semantics here. I'll play fair, here's what I believe. "Return of the Living Dead" Zeds: we're all gonna die. "Night of the Living Dead" Zeds: this is a threat, really? "L4D" Zeds: this might be fun... "28 days/weeks"Zeds: OK, board up the windows... New York Lock the Doors... fill the bath tubs... we're sitting it out for the long haul..." L4D: Only if your immune and still I never want to meet a witch, a tank or a hunter. 28 Days: Military could easily handle provided they didn't use infantry and instead just used missles, nerve gases, firebombs, etc. These techniques might no get used until it's already spread though. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
FrenchLegion	99. RE: Overwhelmed Military? Oct 28 2009, 10:42 PM EDT "Solanium Zombies? I thought that was covered with the 'NOTLD" quote. Morningstar Zombies? I don't know anything about that aside from what You & PedroAsani mentioned about it... I'm still looking for the book's. It sounds intriguing... Edit also, I can't BELIEVE you didn't one up me for the 'Do you find this valuble' with post #91 with 'Le Blue!!!' at the bottom... I'm guessing you're not a fan of the French Football team?" Until they get their ass into shape and get that qualification into the 2010 World Cup, I'm leaning towards Italy. Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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