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Discussion: Sniper System "Light Weight"

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KR555	Sniper System or Designated Marksman "Light Weight" Dec 2 2009, 10:53 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 4 2009, 1:37 PM EST To be honest first, im more of an AK47 dude. I'm looking into a sniper system, that is light weight ,low recoil and light ammo since most top notch sniper system don't have these feature. I was looking into a Full Size AR15 20" barrel with a scope, and 20rd magazine for my sniper system. I heard Full size AR can hit target up to 600 yard+ is this BS or is it possible? Post reply Do you find this valuable? Keyword tags: ballistics bows explosives firearms guns melee weapons
brandon_a_boyer	1. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 2 2009, 10:58 PM EST It depends on the size of the target. Accuracy at that range comes from consistancy. That means being able to shoot, knowing how your ammo will shoot, and knowing how your gun will perform. And low recoil just isn't gonna happen with a lightweight gun. a Remington .700 in the following calibers would be fairly cheap, and would work well. .7mm, .300 win mag, 30-06, .308, 22-250. .223. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
KR555	2. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 2 2009, 11:07 PM EST "It depends on the size of the target. Accuracy at that range comes from consistancy. That means being able to shoot, knowing how your ammo will shoot, and knowing how your gun will perform. And low recoil just isn't gonna happen with a lightweight gun. a Remington .700 in the following calibers would be fairly cheap, and would work well. .7mm, .300 win mag, 30-06, .308, 22-250. .223." I want a Semi-auto, and detachable magazine for my sniper system. Target size, im saying human size. That why i might want an AR15 20" barrel. Since if i can reach up 600yard more or less that good for me. I consider anything pass 200 yard the sniper zone. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
brandon_a_boyer	3. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 2 2009, 11:10 PM EST Go for the AR-10, the .308 will have better impact at that range. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
John_234	4. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 2 2009, 11:21 PM EST Weight generally means stability, which is key to accuracy. A heavier round generally means a more stable trajectory. Were you looking at "sniper rifles" alone, or also Designated Marksman's Rifles? The latter is based off a conventional assault or battle rifle, for mid range engagement. Shorter than a dedicated sniper system, but longer than most standard rifles. Rifles like accurized AR variants, the M21, SVD... You're not going to get the best performance from an assault rifle base, but most modern rifles can push that .223 awfully far. Hypothetically speaking, a manually operated, .308 or similar large calibre rifle will be more accurate. I really think you'd be hard pressed to perform near well enough for such difference to become apparent. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
PedroAsani	5. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 2 2009, 11:42 PM EST I have to object to the overuse of "Sniper". If all you are looking to do is pick off targets, that's just long range shooting. Real snipers infiltrate and exfiltrate without being seen. Most of the training is about evading detection, concealment, stealth. It has been usurped by videogames that simply have "long range rifle + scope = headshot = sniper." A gun does not make a sniper. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
byates	6. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 2 2009, 11:45 PM EST A good shot with a good rifle can stay center of mass on a person out to 600 yards. Doping the wind and estimating range are critical. Practice is essential. Larger calibers buck the wind better, higher retained velocities make elevation judgment less critical. 200 to 300 yard kill shots with a good AR-15 type rifle are reasonable, even with iron sights. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
KR555	7. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 3 2009, 10:58 AM EST "Weight generally means stability, which is key to accuracy. A heavier round generally means a more stable trajectory. Were you looking at "sniper rifles" alone, or also Designated Marksman's Rifles? The latter is based off a conventional assault or battle rifle, for mid range engagement. Shorter than a dedicated sniper system, but longer than most standard rifles. Rifles like accurized AR variants, the M21, SVD... You're not going to get the best performance from an assault rifle base, but most modern rifles can push that .223 awfully far. Hypothetically speaking, a manually operated, .308 or similar large calibre rifle will be more accurate. I really think you'd be hard pressed to perform near well enough for such difference to become apparent." Designated Marksman rifle that right, not sniper since i won't be working alone. Since the 5.56x45 was design to be use effectiveness in a 20" barrell AR15 with that tumbling theory at impact. My goal will be long distance fighting, and need lots of ammo since to keep zombie at bay. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
LJ126	8. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 3 2009, 11:41 AM EST A better weapon for the job would be a Romak 3 rifle, chambered in 7.62x54R. These are often mistakenly referred to as "Dragunov" rifles, but they are not. They use 10 round detachable magazines (AK style) and typically come with POSP optics, although I'm unsure what power they come in. Also has iron sights for closer range stuff. I've seen them for under $700. Hell, some come with bayonet lugs and can have an AK47 bayonet mounted on them. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
brandon_a_boyer	9. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 3 2009, 12:52 PM EST "A better weapon for the job would be a Romak 3 rifle, chambered in 7.62x54R. These are often mistakenly referred to as "Dragunov" rifles, but they are not. They use 10 round detachable magazines (AK style) and typically come with POSP optics, although I'm unsure what power they come in. Also has iron sights for closer range stuff. I've seen them for under $700. Hell, some come with bayonet lugs and can have an AK47 bayonet mounted on them." The are essentially a Dragunov that was built for export, i think century arms imports them. They are way overpriced. http://www.dragunov.net/report_psl.html Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
LJ126	10. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 3 2009, 1:19 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 3 2009, 1:23 PM EST There is a very big difference between the Romak-3 (PSL) and the Dragunov (SVD), and the only thing that they have in common is caliber. The Romak-3 (PSL) received is basically identical in design to an AK's, except scaled up for the x54R cartridge. For all intents and purposes, its effectively a large Romanian AK. The bolt design, trigger mechanism, gas piston, all the same but beefed up. The SVD is a purpose built sniper rifle and shares nothing in common with the AK design. In fact, you can't even swap magazines - they are not cross compatible. Its deceptive because it shares some cosmetic similarity but they're really very different designs. The bolt is very different. The trigger mechanism is independent of the receiver, whereas the AK and Romak-3 (PSL) use drop in trigger parts. I don't believe that they're overpriced at $700-$900, especially once you consider the price of an NDM Norinco Tiger (SVD Copy) or an actual SVD, which, if you can find one runs for $4000 on Gunbroker.com. http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=148950755 EDIT: I found an Izmash SVD Tiger for $2600. That's a phenomenal deal, considering that these ballpark well over 3 grand. http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=148653931 Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
timberrattler	11. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 3 2009, 1:38 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 3 2009, 1:38 PM EST A Savage BTCSS Thumbhole 12 Series Varminter is on my wish list. It comes in .223, .204 or .22-250. Its all of the things you're not interested in. Laminated wood stock, bolt-action, heavy (about 12 lbs.) and long barreled. All it needs is a good scope and a bi-pod to finish it out. Savages have a sweet factory trigger. Guess what? Those are all things I look for in a good long range rifle. A .308 will buck the wind and shoot a long ass distance but with a .204 Ruger you will have almost no recoil with a 12lb. rifle. A .204 Ruger round comes screaming out of the barrel at over 4,000 fps and will shoot really flat. There will be no readjusting after each shot, you'll see the shot hit again and again. Thumb a couple of rounds in when you get a break and you won't notice a the few extra seconds it takes. Now that the old varmint hunter has had his say all you snipers can go back to discussing tactical sniper stuff. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
LWJ2009	12. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 3 2009, 1:43 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 3 2009, 1:43 PM EST I would just use the old man's Remington 700 chambered in 7mm mag for a marksmen weapon. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
LJ126	13. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 3 2009, 2:00 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 3 2009, 2:00 PM EST "Savages have a sweet factory trigger." Yes they do. My buddy's old deer rifle was a Savage 30-06 with the Accutrigger and it was mind-numbingly accurate out to 200 yards. I remember being impressed with the trigger, especially since it was one of the Bass Pro package rifles. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
deathseekrakodo	14. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 3 2009, 2:13 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 3 2009, 2:19 PM EST thinking along the lines of large numbers of z's chasing my buds towards the fort, the dream would be the ar10 chambered in 7.62 (only because its better on scrounging than .308) but i was just looking on remington's webby, they now offer a .223 pump action rifle!!! and on top of that its ar15 mag compatible!!!! the .223 (5.56) round has always been my favorite, and basic proved to me that it (in my hands with iron sights) was accurate to 500 yards easily so i'd love to see what i could do with a good leopould or trijjicon sight on a sr556 or h&k 416 Post reply Do you find this valuable?
deathseekrakodo	15. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 3 2009, 3:35 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 3 2009, 3:35 PM EST http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm the remmington 7615 law enforcement patrol rifle is a modified 870 pump chambered in .223 and fed by standard M16/ar15 mags, options include ghost ring combat sights, collapsible m-4 style stock, variety of stock options. unsure of scope mounting but i'd imagine theres some way. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
brandon_a_boyer	16. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 3 2009, 4:18 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 3 2009, 4:18 PM EST "thinking along the lines of large numbers of z's chasing my buds towards the fort, the dream would be the ar10 chamYbered in 7.62 (only because its better on scrounging than .308) but i was just looking on remington's webby, they now offer a .223 pump action rifle!!! and on top of that its ar15 mag compatible!!!! the .223 (5.56) round has always been my favorite, and basic proved to me that it (in my hands with iron sights) was accurate to 500 yards easily so i'd love to see what i could do with a good leopould or trijjicon sight on a sr556 or h&k 416" You do realize that the 7.62x51mm NATO and the .308 are essentially interchangeable. SAMMI makes no mention of there being any danger in doing so.. Having said that, do you live in Europe? Because I have never been in a sporting goods section of a market and not seen .308 win. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
brandon_a_boyer	17. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 3 2009, 4:27 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 3 2009, 4:27 PM EST "There is a very big difference between the Romak-3 (PSL) and the Dragunov (SVD), and the only thing that they have in common is caliber. The Romak-3 (PSL) received is basically identical in design to an AK's, except scaled up for the x54R cartridge. For all intents and purposes, its effectively a large Romanian AK. The bolt design, trigger mechanism, gas piston, all the same but beefed up. The SVD is a purpose built sniper rifle and shares nothing in common with the AK design. In fact, you can't even swap magazines - they are not cross compatible. Its deceptive because it shares some cosmetic similarity but they're really very different designs. The bolt is very different. The trigger mechanism is independent of the receiver, whereas the AK and Romak-3 (PSL) use drop in trigger parts. I don't believe that they're overpriced at $700-$900, especially once you consider the price of an NDM Norinco Tiger (SVD Copy) or an actual SVD, which, if you can find one runs for $4000 on Gunbroker.com. http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=148950755 EDIT: I found an Izmash SVD Tiger for $2600. That's a phenomenal deal, considering that these ballpark well over 3 grand. http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=148653931" I'd almost rather get the Vepr in the .308, the accuracy is comparable and the .308 would be easier to scavenge stateside. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
deathseekrakodo	18. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 3 2009, 4:57 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 3 2009, 4:57 PM EST "You do realize that the 7.62x51mm NATO and the .308 are essentially interchangeable. SAMMI makes no mention of there being any danger in doing so.. Having said that, do you live in Europe? Because I have never been in a sporting goods section of a market and not seen .308 win." no, i'm not from europe. no, i've never seen any documentation that says they are interchangeable so i would never do so. and lastly my choice of a weapon built for 7.62 is based on the assumption that most stores with ammo will be cleaned out as quickly as possible i went with the mil-spec round just because. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
brandon_a_boyer	19. RE: Sniper System "Light Weight" Dec 3 2009, 5:09 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 3 2009, 5:09 PM EST The cartridges are essentially the same. However the NATO ammo has a thicker casing, and the .308 is thinner, allowing for a larger powder load. The general rule is that you can use the 7.62 in a .308, but not vice versa. Having said that, I have never heard of a gun blowing up on somebody because they swapped ammo. I would like to point out that if you handload that the two cartridges require different dies and powder loads. http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/ammunition-reports/50627-308-v-7-62-nato.html http://www.303british.com/id36.html http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070821103627AA2T1tl http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204612 http://www.streichers.com/ProductDetail.aspx?Catalog=Weapons&Category=AR_MAGS&Prod=MPI-243 Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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Discussion: Sniper System "Light Weight"

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