Location: Fire Bed

Discussion: important info to do thisReported This is a featured thread

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MajorDamage
MajorDamage
important info to do this
Jan 4 2010, 6:59 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 4 2010, 6:59 PM EST
I remember an article about how to do this. It stressed that you MUST use rocks that are bone DRY. Do Not use anything from creeks or near water.
If you do, expect the moisture to boil and the stone/rock to explode.
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Keyword tags: Camping Fire Bed
Iamz0rs
Iamz0rs
1. RE: important info to do this
Jan 4 2010, 7:42 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 4 2010, 7:42 PM EST
I've not tried, we were always told that fire on mountains where bad.

However, I feel that that is somewhat overrated. I've seen it done in snowy areas. I know that rapid heat and cooling can cause stones to expand and shrink and thus crack. But I doubt it will be some fatal exploison with shards flying around and killing everyone on the site.
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MajorDamage
MajorDamage
2. RE: important info to do this
Jan 4 2010, 7:57 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 4 2010, 7:57 PM EST
"I've not tried, we were always told that fire on mountains where bad.

However, I feel that that is somewhat overrated. I've seen it done in snowy areas. I know that rapid heat and cooling can cause stones to expand and shrink and thus crack. But I doubt it will be some fatal exploison with shards flying around and killing everyone on the site."
it's fire in a pit. Controlled. Rocks/stones on bottom. Then you cover it.
Then you lie over it.

If you want to chance it, be my guest.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
3. RE: important info to do this
Jan 4 2010, 8:05 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 4 2010, 8:05 PM EST
I have made this before. The usual test is to cover it with the soil, and maybe some dry grass. Then push your hand down on it as hard as you can. If it is too hot to keep your hand on, let it cool before you lie on it.

You shouldn't need to worry about the rocks exploding. That happens when they are heated and then rapidly cooled. Hadrian did this to entire mountain-pass walls. The walls were quenched with buckets of cold water, and they did explode.

But that isn't what is happening here. The rocks are being allowed to cool at their own rate. That is why the firebed works.

You don't have to use rocks if you can get decent hardwood to burn. It will make charcoal that will do the same job. But the bonus of using rocks is that you don't need to rely on the wood quality to keep warm. You could burn nothing but dry grass and hay for three hours, and still sleep well that night.
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Iamz0rs
Iamz0rs
4. RE: important info to do this
Jan 4 2010, 8:10 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 4 2010, 8:10 PM EST
"it's fire in a pit. Controlled. Rocks/stones on bottom. Then you cover it.
Then you lie over it.

If you want to chance it, be my guest.
"
Better than freezing to death because you might belive it will explode.

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MajorDamage
MajorDamage
5. RE: important info to do this
Jan 4 2010, 8:18 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 4 2010, 8:18 PM EST
just passing along that you should use dry stones/rocks if you plan to do this for real

pardon the f-ck out of me

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Iamz0rs
Iamz0rs
6. RE: important info to do this
Jan 4 2010, 8:51 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 4 2010, 8:51 PM EST
Didin't mean to offend you in any way :<

Perhaps I was a bit to negative. But still, did they mention any "grade" on the exploding stones? I belive that they might crack and even send small bits flying. I'm just wondering if it's going to be some fatal barrage of lethal rock shards simular to a stone wall exploding and sending shards that penetrate the human body?

Can't you just stuff the "bottom" of the firepit (above the stones) with a whole bunch of grass, or even bury them (not that deep) to minimize the impact of eventual flying stones?

I think it's rather hard to find a bone dry area of the ground in many areas.

I though the idea was to point out flaws and try to find solutions?

If you feel I've invaded your thread somehow, just tell me and I'll be on my way.
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MajorDamage
MajorDamage
7. RE: important info to do this
Jan 4 2010, 9:16 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 5 2010, 5:38 PM EST
Offended? not quite. Pissed, yes. Why? Because I didn't write that the 'wet' stones would become instant dynamite or instant rock grenade.

I don't go running around tossing wet rocks into fire to test the theory. Just like I don't hang out w/people who tend to "hey, y'all, watch this" either. I DO look for good advice and follow it. If it's good enough for me, I pass it along.

I'm just going by (years ago) memory on an article written first hand by some guy who was in Turkey and did it.
It's buried somewhere in my library archives but here are the highlights:
US guy in Turkey going someplace in Turkish mountains w/Turkish military.
Before sundown and oncoming freeze, he builds fire pit.
Turkish mil guys chide he is 'digging his grave'
He recommends fist sized stones/rocks that are DRY to avoid problems
Turks build standard fire
He builds fire pit wi/rocks under fire
When fire becomes super-hot coals, he covers with dirt and stomps down
Turks amazed and confused thoroughly
He gets good sleep over toasty coal warmth pit despite sub-zero temps
Turks don't get sleep and deal w/stoking fire all night long


Tally:
Smart 'ugly' American- 1 Three Frozen Turks-0 (as in 0 F, 0 C or 0 K if you prefer)

The End/Fin
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
8. RE: important info to do this
Jan 5 2010, 8:26 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 5 2010, 8:26 AM EST
I guess it makes sense to avoid using wet/river rocks until this is tested.

And I will be testing it. From a safe distance. It could be that if you use porous rocks that water trapped inside boils, and could cause explosions. But the amount trapped would be tiny, so I don't see them going BOOM. More like a tiny crack. Fragments might be hazardous to eyes, but I don't see them puncturing skin.
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CallsignPyro
CallsignPyro
9. RE: important info to do this
Feb 15 2010, 8:41 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 15 2010, 8:41 PM EST
"Perhaps I was a bit to negative. But still, did they mention any "grade" on the exploding stones? I belive that they might crack and even send small bits flying. I'm just wondering if it's going to be some fatal barrage of lethal rock shards simular to a stone wall exploding and sending shards that penetrate the human body?

Can't you just stuff the "bottom" of the firepit (above the stones) with a whole bunch of grass, or even bury them (not that deep) to minimize the impact of eventual flying stones?

I think it's rather hard to find a bone dry area of the ground in many areas.

I though the idea was to point out flaws and try to find solutions?

If you feel I've invaded your thread somehow, just tell me and I'll be on my way."
your thinking of rocks that naturally have air pockets in them, sandstone for example, they will explode if heated , river stones are fine as long as you dry them totally
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
10. RE: important info to do this
Feb 16 2010, 3:50 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 16 2010, 3:50 PM EST
"your thinking of rocks that naturally have air pockets in them, sandstone for example, they will explode if heated , river stones are fine as long as you dry them totally"
Can you rate this "explosive" quality? For example, just how loud a noise do you get, or how big are the fragments and how far do they travel?

So far I have done this once since posting, and had no issues. But maybe it needs some specific conditions that I haven't reproduced yet.
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CallsignPyro
CallsignPyro
11. RE: important info to do this
Feb 16 2010, 3:56 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 16 2010, 3:56 PM EST
"Can you rate this "explosive" quality? For example, just how loud a noise do you get, or how big are the fragments and how far do they travel?

So far I have done this once since posting, and had no issues. But maybe it needs some specific conditions that I haven't reproduced yet."
i did this when i was a kid & lets say about as loud as a 5 firecrackers & the same force, superheated air is dangerous if contained in a small area, it sent srapnle everywhere,, tore my sleeping bag apart, luckly i wasnt in it
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Carnack
Carnack
12. RE: important info to do this
Feb 16 2010, 3:58 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 16 2010, 3:58 PM EST
"Can you rate this "explosive" quality? For example, just how loud a noise do you get, or how big are the fragments and how far do they travel?

So far I have done this once since posting, and had no issues. But maybe it needs some specific conditions that I haven't reproduced yet."
Well from my experience the "explosion" is the equivelent of a popping balloon made of glass. The noise was hard to describe but it wasn't loud.

If you are close to it you would get scratched and could lose a bit of meat as well if you are really close. It does depend on how much liquid is present though.
And the size of the shards/pebbles depends on the rock.

It really is hard to tell what stones are dangerous and not.
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John_234
John_234
13. RE: important info to do this
Feb 17 2010, 12:48 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 17 2010, 12:48 AM EST
Ah, exploding sandstone... making rock ovens had it's fair share of surprises. Do you find this valuable?    
Drewblet
Drewblet
14. RE: important info to do this
Feb 17 2010, 1:10 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 17 2010, 1:15 AM EST
To those confused, this is the point of this decades-old warning: It's a hazard, not a deathtrap.

Not all wet rocks explode, but some do. Not all exploding rocks can puncture skin, but some can. It's not going to blow your leg off, but it might cut it.

In a survival situation, a small cut can turn into a serious infection, which is the main point of this caution, really.

It's like walking around on the top of a very tall building in a thunderstorm, holding a 12-foot piece of piping and hoping the lightning won't flash. If you can avoid it, do. If not, just be careful. Odds are that nothing will happen, but it's still a hazard.

By the who, didn't some rocks blow up on Les Stroud at one point, or am I remembering wrong?
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TheRoamingGnome
TheRoamingGnome
15. RE: important info to do this
May 4 2011, 2:45 PM EDT | Post edited: May 4 2011, 2:45 PM EDT
also be sure that you space your rocks about an inch apart as to not use to many so your fire can breath. make sure that when you are packing your dirt that there are no holes and you should have about 4 inchs of space from the top of the hole to where you packed dirt and after an hour the dirt should be warm if it does it sooner add more dirt because the dirt could get to hot to sleep on during the night. then cover with insulation (pine straw works well) put to nice size logs on either side to keep the wind off you, lay down, cover up, and enjoy your sleep. Do you find this valuable?    
2WheeledSpeed
2WheeledSpeed
16. RE: important info to do this
May 4 2011, 3:11 PM EDT | Post edited: May 4 2011, 3:11 PM EDT
Dear Lord, I saw the author of this thread and thought MD was back. Do you find this valuable?    
theman838
theman838
17. RE: important info to do this
May 4 2011, 9:20 PM EDT | Post edited: May 4 2011, 9:20 PM EDT
"Dear Lord, I saw the author of this thread and thought MD was back."
He is not. : (
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Ready_For_Z-Day
Ready_For_Z-Day
18. RE: important info to do this
May 4 2011, 9:24 PM EDT | Post edited: May 4 2011, 9:24 PM EDT
"He is not. : ("
I thought the same... Damn.
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Zee-Man
Zee-Man
19. RE: important info to do this
Dec 30 2012, 5:43 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 30 2012, 5:43 PM EST
"To those confused, this is the point of this decades-old warning: It's a hazard, not a deathtrap.

Not all wet rocks explode, but some do. Not all exploding rocks can puncture skin, but some can. It's not going to blow your leg off, but it might cut it.

In a survival situation, a small cut can turn into a serious infection, which is the main point of this caution, really.

It's like walking around on the top of a very tall building in a thunderstorm, holding a 12-foot piece of piping and hoping the lightning won't flash. If you can avoid it, do. If not, just be careful. Odds are that nothing will happen, but it's still a hazard.

By the who, didn't some rocks blow up on Les Stroud at one point, or am I remembering wrong?"
Since I'm working on these pages I thought it might be worthwhile to bump this thread.

To add to my quote of Drewblet:

Even dry stones can explode when heated. This is usually due to rapid heating alone causing thermal shock. It is usually called spalling. It is also a common technique for dressing some kinds of stone. Chips can go flying with significant force. Certainly enough to cause eye injury, though not likely a fatal injury.

Wetted stones most often just crack from built up steam. However, they can also forcefully explode. Use caution with all heated rocks. Thermal shock will convert potential energy into kinetic energy.

As to the fire bed, this is a useful technique. Stones are only used as a heat mass. You do not need to use them to make a fire bed. The pit is needed both to contain the large fire that will be used and to have insulating material to bury it with. When burying it make sure the earth is packed to keep air from the now buried fire.
.
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