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Discussion: Dummy Grenades?
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ViolentKisses |
Dummy Grenades?
Mar 2 2010, 5:13 PM EST
Been checking out all the dummy grenades or real ones rendered inert and was thinking about buying a couple for no real reason.But then I thought about a possible stand off senerio in which you pull out one of these. You could be outnumbered 10 to 1 and still you have a chance with a $10 dummy grenade. It would certainly be one of the biggest bluffs of all time but and if they call it your dead but it gives you a chance right?It would give you two options. #1 Being allowed to back out of the building or room unharmed. #2 If you drop it and run everyones likely to duck for the nearest cover. 4 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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ViolentKisses |
1. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 2 2010, 5:14 PM EST
PS: picking a few of the enemy off before this standoff will make them more likely to trust that your the real deal.Wouldn't you agree? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
Survivor15 |
2. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 2 2010, 5:41 PM EST
Absolutely.I want one now! 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
mudroll |
3. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 2 2010, 5:48 PM EST
"PS: picking a few of the enemy off before this standoff will make them more likely to trust that your the real deal.Yeah. If you shot a couple of people dead then they'll be more cautious and wary of you. Most average citizens would probably freeze up and just give whatever they wanted, however if you shot a few dead, it'd inspire fear and show that you're armed and you know how to use it. Also it gives you a higher "threat level" so to speak. And if you have guns a grenade isn't that bad of a possiblity in their minds probably. Or they might just run off after seeing a couple people die. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
Knuxz |
4. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 2 2010, 6:04 PM EST
I do agree. I also think this would be a decent idea. But as you said, they may not care/know it's fake. Then you are screwed.
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ViolentKisses |
5. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 2 2010, 6:19 PM EST
Either they got a gun to your head and you pull the pin and hold the leverOr Your in a standoff with them and you pull the pin toss it toward them and hope they duck before they shoot. Either way for 10 dollars as long as they value their life and you are a decent actor it will buy you some time i'm guessing 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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mudroll |
6. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 2 2010, 8:19 PM EST
"Either they got a gun to your head and you pull the pin and hold the leverIf they had a gun to your head and you pulled one out they'd probably just shoot you. So if I'm in that situation lets just listen to them. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
DevilNuts |
7. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 2 2010, 10:26 PM EST
A common fragmentation grenade is made up of three parts:- Fuse - Body - Explosive filler The body of the grenade itself is usually the fragmentation which kills when the device is detonated, thus all you need to turn a dummy grenade into a live grenade is a small amount of explosives. I have always wondered if you could drill out the hole in the bottom of a dummy grenade and stuff an M-80 or quarter-stick in there, and how effective that would be when lit and thrown. If anybody has any real knowledge of grenades and explosives, please shed some light on this. Otherwise if I remember I will ask an EOD guy or ammo tech the next time I meet one. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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DevilNuts |
8. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 2 2010, 10:32 PM EST
To answer the OP though, I do not think this is a great idea. Maybe I would try it as a last resort if I am caught with no better option, but I would never stake my life on a bluff unless I had the means to back it up. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
AlexHigginbotham |
9. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 2 2010, 10:50 PM EST
Be warned, they are heavy and will add considerable weight to your BOB
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John_234 |
10. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 2 2010, 11:59 PM EST
"A common fragmentation grenade is made up of three parts:I can try to answer this. Most dummy grenades are completely inert. The entire fuse mechanism is disarmed. So that scratches my own idea of using the grenade as designed. But, an M80 probably won't have enough strength to properly fragment a grenade. The M67 frag grenades you've probably used utilize a Composition B filler, a pretty powerful high explosive. To detonate a similar explosive, you'd need a good blasting cap, likely a multi stage one. You can't simply light one. Another concern is that a grenade exerts some very significant pressure on the casing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SiD5EAXz_Y I can't identify this model, but it is a conventional fragmentation grenade with a pressed steel casing. It visibly makes a point of how much pressure is put on the casing. Grenades are normally cast in a single piece or two halves pressed together. Dummy grenades are milled out at the bottom. A plug likely wouldn't have the strength to hold in the blast sufficiently. You'd have to weld it and fill through the top of the grenade. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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mudroll |
11. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 3 2010, 12:18 AM EST
Well if anyone wants to know I'll just explain how a grenade works. You have your safety pin that you pull out. That releases the hammer or striker which then strikes a percussion cap or blasting cap in some cases. This will then be connected to a fuse which will ignite and run to the detonator causing the grenade to go boom. That's the average simple timed grenade. And please don't mess around with home made grenades. That=suicide unless you actually have some detonation/explosive ordinance experience. And molotov cocktails don't count. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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John_234 |
12. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 3 2010, 12:24 AM EST
However, there is a neat trick I have learned. All of you have seen a Mk2 pineapple grenade, right? It is the iconic hand grenade, and very commonly available in dummy form.It is made out of cast iron, same for the No. 36 "Mills bomb" and Russian F1. They're normally filled with smokeless powder, as TNT had a tendency to over fragment the casing and not produce sufficient shrapnel. So, what works better than a shell which was normally used with commonly available gunpowder? The only problem is ensuring that you don't allow any buildup of static electricity, as smokeless power is a sensitive low-explosive. A simple solution would be to spray paint the casing after welding the end cap and before filling the shell. You could then fuse it with ordinary cannon fuse, or try to get the original fuse working. You can actually make a very workable fuse with a G2 ballpoint pen, nail, caps / primers and some glue. Functional spoon, too. So, to actually get back onto the topic, I don't think a bluff is worth it if you can make it live fairly easily. Of course, if anybody has seen Lethal Weapon, they'll know it doesn't have to use an explosive filler to be a good bargaining tool. Do you find this valuable? |
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John_234 |
13. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 3 2010, 12:39 AM EST
"Well if anyone wants to know I'll just explain how a grenade works.You missed a step. You pull the pin, remove the jungle clip if it has one, then fling the grenade. There is a safety lever, called the spoon, that is held down while pulling the pin. Leaving your hand, the spring loaded spoon flies off, which then releases the striker. Also, there is no grenade design that strikes a blasting cap, or the grenade would explosive instantly. . . A blasting cap is a type of detonator. To add to this, some kinds of grenades were actually designed with instant detonation, a "dead man switch." Mainly used for booby traps, or to be purposely captured by the enemy. Then you have impact fuses. After the pin is pulled and the spoon is released, the grenade has a short arming delay, usually around two seconds, after which it will detonate after striking an object. After some time, usually five to seven seconds, it will self destruct as normal. These have the advantage of being used against moving targets, or stationary ones without bouncing. You can see this being useful for breaching or similar scenarios. A similar system is used on 40mm smoke rounds. Do you find this valuable? |
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DevilNuts |
14. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 3 2010, 2:42 AM EST
"But, an M80 probably won't have enough strength to properly fragment a grenade. The M67 frag grenades you've probably used utilize a Composition B filler, a pretty powerful high explosive."This is what I thought, but someday just for sh!ts and giggles I would like to see it tried, just to see how much damage the firework causes to the grenade. Do you find this valuable? |
Filadog |
15. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 3 2010, 7:32 AM EST
Instead of trying to bluff with a dummy grenade perhaps it would be better to carry your clothing around in some Samsonite and if confronted yell "Back Off!... I have a Nuclear Suitcase Bomb and will kill us all ! "I guess some type of IED could be useful if you knew how to make one with out blowing yourself up and had the materials...but a dummy genade to scare people?.... Do you find this valuable? |
AgEnT_GrEEn |
16. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 3 2010, 8:43 AM EST
""Back Off!... I have a Nuclear Suitcase Bomb and will kill us all ! ""If I did that, it would work, especially with a German accent and a necktie. As for the subject, I wouldn't bother with them. Sort of like why I don't bother with armor, the likelihood I'll be put into a situation where it'd be necessary is minimal, so I don't see it prudent to waste my energy with dead weight. Do you find this valuable? |
PedroAsani |
17. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 3 2010, 10:30 AM EST
"Been checking out all the dummy grenades or real ones rendered inert and was thinking about buying a couple for no real reason.That is a fairly big gamble you are taking. I think the words LAST RESORT ONLY should be attached to that plan. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
Red_Fog |
18. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 3 2010, 11:39 AM EST
Meh, I rather wouldn't bother with it. Just find yourself an actual grenade, or if you gots the know how, make one. If it's the end of the world they shouldn't be TOO hard to come by. If I found some I'd certainly take em.
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AlexHigginbotham |
19. RE: Dummy Grenades?
Mar 3 2010, 4:13 PM EST
Grenades are a big no-no in an urban environment. I would keep my distance from anyone with a grenade that wasn't %100 sure of its capabilities. If you wan't good uses for a grenade, google booby traps used by the Vietcong that incorporated grenades.
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