Location: Ballistic Armor

Discussion: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie ApocalypseReported This is a featured thread

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fixdeluxe1
fixdeluxe1
The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
Apr 27 2010, 1:33 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 27 2010, 1:33 AM EDT
I perfectly understand the point of defense against raiders,and in general terms of security,but where do zombies fit into the picture?

I mean,they will generally NOT be aiming for biting the center-mass until the targets is down,usually with a bite to the neck or a limb,as those are more accesible.You could create pads to fit around your neck(which would be rather uncomfortable) and wrap around your wrist,but would that be enough to buy you time(your not going to stick around being bitten all day,are you).Of course you could go for the extreme options such as wearing an NBC class EOD battlesuit,but that is probably not accesible to most people.

I have a Class II-A Kevlar Vest,I brought off tradme second hand for around about NZ$299.00 with little wear and tare,but it is said to only be effective against handgun ammunition,but you should be taking cover if engaging in a firefight.One word of advice,DO NOT get a false sense of indestructability from these products.
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Keyword tags: armour zombies defense
John_234
John_234
1. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
Apr 27 2010, 1:44 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 27 2010, 1:44 AM EDT
To be perfectly frank, raiders pose a much more significant problem than zombies, realistically speaking. Hence, body armor isn't entirely a bad idea.

II-A is actually the least effective form of soft body armor - not ineffective by any means, but there are more durable forms of body armor available for a similar price. Though, with protection comes bulk.
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8891/stoppingpowerofvests.jpg
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fixdeluxe1
fixdeluxe1
2. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
Apr 27 2010, 2:17 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 27 2010, 2:17 AM EDT
"To be perfectly frank, raiders pose a much more significant problem than zombies, realistically speaking. Hence, body armor isn't entirely a bad idea.

II-A is actually the least effective form of soft body armor - not ineffective by any means, but there are more durable forms of body armor available for a similar price. Though, with protection comes bulk.
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8891/stoppingpowerofvests.jpg"
I suppose so,but not many for sale in New Zealand,illegal to import so have to be domestically made.

Thanks for the heads up
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John_234
John_234
3. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
Apr 27 2010, 2:20 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 27 2010, 2:20 AM EDT
"I suppose so,but not many for sale in New Zealand,illegal to import so have to be domestically made.

Thanks for the heads up"
Well, again, a more resilient vest is not really a necessity. You have to balance mobility versus protection for your own uses.
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fixdeluxe1
fixdeluxe1
4. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
Apr 27 2010, 5:05 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 27 2010, 5:05 AM EDT
"Well, again, a more resilient vest is not really a necessity. You have to balance mobility versus protection for your own uses."
It's quite light,but then again it's second hand.I don't know whether it's been officialy tested under NIJ standards,only New Zealand Police Certificate.

Thanks for the advice.I suppose it will come in handy,but it will no-doubt be under consideration for dumpage if I get overcummbered.
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John_234
John_234
5. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 1 2010, 12:30 AM EDT | Post edited: May 1 2010, 12:30 AM EDT
"It's quite light,but then again it's second hand.I don't know whether it's been officialy tested under NIJ standards,only New Zealand Police Certificate.

Thanks for the advice.I suppose it will come in handy,but it will no-doubt be under consideration for dumpage if I get overcummbered."
I have seen some level IIIA vests that are as light as 5 pounds. The main problem with vests is that they don't breathe, and unless you get into the habit of wearing them constantly, their protection is temporary.
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AlexHigginbotham
AlexHigginbotham
6. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 1 2010, 3:15 AM EDT | Post edited: May 1 2010, 3:15 AM EDT
The misconception I hate about body armor is people assume that when you get shot while wearing it, the bullets deflect off and you keep on trucking. Getting shot with body armor will do a good bit of damage to whatever part of the body it hits, it just wont penetrate.

It will break ribs, stop your heart, bruise your liver and kidneys, etc. If might save your life, but it will take you out of the fight for a while.
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John_234
John_234
7. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 1 2010, 3:31 AM EDT | Post edited: May 1 2010, 3:31 AM EDT
Hence the common use of trauma plates. I recall Richard Davis of Second Change used magazines stuffed under the vest to cushion his test shots. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
fixdeluxe1
fixdeluxe1
8. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 1 2010, 9:43 AM EDT | Post edited: May 1 2010, 9:43 AM EDT
"The misconception I hate about body armor is people assume that when you get shot while wearing it, the bullets deflect off and you keep on trucking. Getting shot with body armor will do a good bit of damage to whatever part of the body it hits, it just wont penetrate.

It will break ribs, stop your heart, bruise your liver and kidneys, etc. If might save your life, but it will take you out of the fight for a while."
It's a misconception common amongst persons who learn "combat" skills from video games & hollywood.At best they can really only stop small-medium size calibers and small-bore rounds,even so the kinetic energy transfer can still cause internal bleeding and death.

That's why at Infantry School they teach fire discipline,cover and R.O.E to stop MN COD4 Hooligaans from putting themselves and others in danger.Trauma plates are heavy,bulky,uncomfotable and still not the "silver bullet".

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AlexHigginbotham
AlexHigginbotham
9. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 1 2010, 3:05 PM EDT | Post edited: May 1 2010, 3:05 PM EDT
Not to mention we have to baby our sapi plates because they are so sensative to shock that a lot of people break them on accident. If they break under any other condition than us being shot at or blown up, it comes out of our pocket. Do you find this valuable?    
John_234
John_234
10. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 1 2010, 8:00 PM EDT | Post edited: May 1 2010, 8:00 PM EDT
"It's a misconception common amongst persons who learn "combat" skills from video games & hollywood.At best they can really only stop small-medium size calibers and small-bore rounds,even so the kinetic energy transfer can still cause internal bleeding and death.

That's why at Infantry School they teach fire discipline,cover and R.O.E to stop MN COD4 Hooligaans from putting themselves and others in danger.Trauma plates are heavy,bulky,uncomfotable and still not the "silver bullet"."
Trauma plate =/= Ballistic plate.

A trauma plate is simply an insert designed to cut down on the blunt impact of a bullet. It may be steel or polymer, but it lacks ballistic protection on it's own. They aren't heavy, they aren't bulky, they aren't rare, and there really isn't a reason not to wear them with soft body armor.
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fixdeluxe1
fixdeluxe1
11. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 1 2010, 11:09 PM EDT | Post edited: May 1 2010, 11:09 PM EDT
"Not to mention we have to baby our sapi plates because they are so sensative to shock that a lot of people break them on accident. If they break under any other condition than us being shot at or blown up, it comes out of our pocket."
So your saying in the USMC,or whatever branch you in,that YOU have to re-imburse the costs of damaged equipment?

Jesus,we don't even get ballistic protection in the NZDF,mostly just DPM's,not even combat helmets(I'm armourers corps though,reservist,but most likely to be placed in infantry or armour should the need arise).We were lucky to even get warm gloves!
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fixdeluxe1
fixdeluxe1
12. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 1 2010, 11:11 PM EDT | Post edited: May 1 2010, 11:11 PM EDT
"Trauma plate =/= Ballistic plate.

A trauma plate is simply an insert designed to cut down on the blunt impact of a bullet. It may be steel or polymer, but it lacks ballistic protection on it's own. They aren't heavy, they aren't bulky, they aren't rare, and there really isn't a reason not to wear them with soft body armor."
From my limited experience they can be quite heavy,considering most servicemen who wear them are also carrying service weapons,equipment,comms gear,survival gear and heavy weapons,which just adds to the weight.

Not meant to come across as nuts,but I wish there was some kind of deployable disposable energy shield system which absorbed kintec energy/shock as well as heat.
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Freelancer47
Freelancer47
13. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 2 2010, 12:33 AM EDT | Post edited: May 2 2010, 12:33 AM EDT
"So your saying in the USMC,or whatever branch you in,that YOU have to re-imburse the costs of damaged equipment?"
That's standard throughout the U.S. Armed Services. I had to pay upwards of $300 when my sleeping bag was stolen.

As for Kevlar, I've said it before:

I'm more worried about my fellow man then Zeds if Z-Day hits.

Zombies are pretty one dimentional.

People come in all sorts of colors.

Yes: as a former Cavalry Scout I often walked Baghdad with over 330 rounds of 5.56mm for the M4, 4-6 40mm HEDP for the M203, an iCom Radio (+1 Back up battery), my 1st aid kit, 3 liters water in my Camelback, & zip-ties/wrist-cufs... that's with the 35 Lbs of armor & the uniform that went with it.

Yes, it sucked. But you get used to it.
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John_234
John_234
14. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 2 2010, 12:56 AM EDT | Post edited: May 2 2010, 12:56 AM EDT
"From my limited experience they can be quite heavy,considering most servicemen who wear them are also carrying service weapons,equipment,comms gear,survival gear and heavy weapons,which just adds to the weight.

Not meant to come across as nuts,but I wish there was some kind of deployable disposable energy shield system which absorbed kintec energy/shock as well as heat."
Two entirely different things. What you are talking about is a ceramic plate, used to stop rifle bullets when inserted into a vest. They're heavy, brittle, all that. However, you and I are talking about two different things.

A trauma plate protects strictly against blunt *trauma.* In super dumbed down terms, it is cushioning, generally just additional aramid fiber formed into a flexible pad. Thus, it doesn't weigh fifteen pounds nor break when you drop it. It is standard for there to be a trauma pad inside a soft vest, right over the cardiovascular triangle for improved protection. They used to be made of metal, but that lead to fragmentation and spalling problems.

Make any sense?
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fixdeluxe1
fixdeluxe1
15. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 2 2010, 1:07 AM EDT | Post edited: May 2 2010, 1:07 AM EDT
"Two entirely different things. What you are talking about is a ceramic plate, used to stop rifle bullets when inserted into a vest. They're heavy, brittle, all that. However, you and I are talking about two different things.

A trauma plate protects strictly against blunt *trauma.* In super dumbed down terms, it is cushioning, generally just additional aramid fiber formed into a flexible pad. Thus, it doesn't weigh fifteen pounds nor break when you drop it. It is standard for there to be a trauma pad inside a soft vest, right over the cardiovascular triangle for improved protection. They used to be made of metal, but that lead to fragmentation and spalling problems.

Make any sense?"
Oh,sorry.In New Zealand they are both reffered to as "metal vest plates" and there is really no differentiating.

So,basically it cushions the kinetic energy transfer from when a round hits.I can't find any for sale,but maybe I could make one.Jan Molenaar,the perpertrator of the 2009 Napier shootings had a home-made metal vest.
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John_234
John_234
16. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 2 2010, 1:15 AM EDT | Post edited: May 2 2010, 1:15 AM EDT
"Oh,sorry.In New Zealand they are both reffered to as "metal vest plates" and there is really no differentiating.

So,basically it cushions the kinetic energy transfer from when a round hits.I can't find any for sale,but maybe I could make one.Jan Molenaar,the perpertrator of the 2009 Napier shootings had a home-made metal vest."
Well, again, metal plates have their problems with causing fragmentation and spalling.

As I said before, things as simple as stuffing magazines under the vest do help over nothing. You must be careful, however, to never use a material without give to it, as it will neutralize the protective ability of the kevlar as it's compressed.
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fixdeluxe1
fixdeluxe1
17. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 2 2010, 4:15 AM EDT | Post edited: May 2 2010, 4:15 AM EDT
"Well, again, metal plates have their problems with causing fragmentation and spalling.

As I said before, things as simple as stuffing magazines under the vest do help over nothing. You must be careful, however, to never use a material without give to it, as it will neutralize the protective ability of the kevlar as it's compressed."
I see,but I only use the II-A at work,sometimes,anyways and the most potent violence I would face would be stabbing,physical assault and shotgun/bb pellets.

One of the guys who used to work at the club was attacked with a steak knife,and it made it's way through his thick jacked into his rib cage.Poor guy.
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fixdeluxe1
fixdeluxe1
18. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 2 2010, 4:24 AM EDT | Post edited: May 2 2010, 4:24 AM EDT
"That's standard throughout the U.S. Armed Services. I had to pay upwards of $300 when my sleeping bag was stolen.

As for Kevlar, I've said it before:

I'm more worried about my fellow man then Zeds if Z-Day hits.

Zombies are pretty one dimentional.

People come in all sorts of colors.

Yes: as a former Cavalry Scout I often walked Baghdad with over 330 rounds of 5.56mm for the M4, 4-6 40mm HEDP for the M203, an iCom Radio (+1 Back up battery), my 1st aid kit, 3 liters water in my Camelback, & zip-ties/wrist-cufs... that's with the 35 Lbs of armor & the uniform that went with it.

Yes, it sucked. But you get used to it."
Now that's nasty,we had a few F88 Austeyrs nicked from Waiouru Army Camp.
Nothing much,the Army tracked them down within hours to a few NCO's reccently granted leave.All they got was CTB(confined to barracks) and a court martial down in christchurch.They were dishonourably discharged and banned from serving in the Police,Army,Navy,Air Force and Coast Guard.

I tell you what,everyone in the NZ Territorial Forces dreaded the ballot,the random call-up for servicement to go to east timor,everyone wanted a chance at afghanistan,but not east timor.I mean who wants to walk around in DPM's,With a C9 delivering water and cleaning villagers dishes?

Oh dude,how can you get used to that?
What happens if the troops can't afford to repay,say,they crash an Abrams Tank or LAV into a large boulder?

That's 3 Million right there,up front private!
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SGTGerman
SGTGerman
19. RE: The point of Kevlar during the Zombie Apocalypse
May 2 2010, 9:28 AM EDT | Post edited: May 2 2010, 9:28 AM EDT
Seriously I would go with "light and fast" than "armoured and slow". Look what type of foe you are most likely to be facing - Like to get in close quarters therefore distance if your defence. Do you find this valuable?    
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