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Raufgar
Raufgar
40. RE: raising chickens
Apr 18 2011, 3:28 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 18 2011, 3:28 AM EDT
"I thought as much. In my case the chicken wire won't work (free ranging, too big an area), so I guess I'm going to have to do some research onto wing clipping, as I'd have no idea how to go about that."
All birds have different type of feathers all around, some keep them warm (down feathers, small feathers that are close to the body) and some for flight (primary feathers, the big ones you see).

While I'm no expert, so you should really find out how to do so, you just need to clip off the primaries that allow flight. Doing so won't hurt the bird, just prevent them from flying.

Here's the wiki on wing clipping : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_clipping
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Oakspar77777
Oakspar77777
41. RE: raising chickens
Apr 24 2011, 10:56 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 24 2011, 10:56 AM EDT
Wild ducks, geese, turkey, and chickens (jungle fowl) can fly. The truly domestic varieties cannot.

Now, most poultry companies will sell you chicks of duck variety that can fly (Mallard) because people think they are pretty and they are raised for canned hunts and dog training. A domestic variety, like the common Pekin duck (Aflac!) cannot fly. They might flap around the yard like a chicken will, but a good fence will keep them in. The same is true of geese and turkey - though I have only seen wild turkey offered from a poulterer - and a wild turkey on a heavy domestic diet won't fly.

There are some ducks (Cambells, Rouen, and Pekin) that will outlay a "farm chicken" they cannot compete with a Leghorn or a Sex Link. So, a good duck is better than a fair chicken, but a good chicken has no equal. Also, it is more difficult to keep ducks from going broody. My Sex Links almost never go broody (2 or 3 a year from 50+ hens) and a few days beating them out of the nest box with a stick (suck on the PETA) is all it has taken to break them (no isolation cages, plucking, or anything like that). I've had some ducks sit on nothing for weeks. That is a plus, however, if you don't have an incubation unit set up.
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White76Knight
White76Knight
42. RE: raising chickens
Apr 26 2011, 2:12 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 26 2011, 2:12 PM EDT
"Wild ducks, geese, turkey, and chickens (jungle fowl) can fly. The truly domestic varieties cannot.

Now, most poultry companies will sell you chicks of duck variety that can fly (Mallard) because people think they are pretty and they are raised for canned hunts and dog training. A domestic variety, like the common Pekin duck (Aflac!) cannot fly. They might flap around the yard like a chicken will, but a good fence will keep them in. The same is true of geese and turkey - though I have only seen wild turkey offered from a poulterer - and a wild turkey on a heavy domestic diet won't fly.

There are some ducks (Cambells, Rouen, and Pekin) that will outlay a "farm chicken" they cannot compete with a Leghorn or a Sex Link. So, a good duck is better than a fair chicken, but a good chicken has no equal. Also, it is more difficult to keep ducks from going broody. My Sex Links almost never go broody (2 or 3 a year from 50+ hens) and a few days beating them out of the nest box with a stick (suck on the PETA) is all it has taken to break them (no isolation cages, plucking, or anything like that). I've had some ducks sit on nothing for weeks. That is a plus, however, if you don't have an incubation unit set up."
Once again Oakspar, great info. Thanks.
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Rocketman52
Rocketman52
43. RE: raising chickens
Apr 29 2011, 9:59 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 29 2011, 9:59 AM EDT
"Now, most poultry companies will sell you chicks of duck variety......."
Great stuff, Oakspar. Easy to tell you keep chickens, even if you hadn't said you own over 50 hens and some ducks. Do you do so for yourself and family? I would guess that you sell the eggs to a local store, no?

To set the record straight to everyone else, we have 10 hens and a rooster. If you do not clip their wings, the hens can and WILL jump over a 6 foot tall fence. Easily. Its not quite flying. But they can get enough air to get out of whatever you have.

Luckily, as some others have said, clipping wings is ridiculously easy. You don't even have to take off much in the way of feathers.

As for broodiness, simply use, say, a broody hen, to raise the chicks of any other bird that wont go broody. Guinea hens won't sit on their nest? Give the eggs to a chicken.
It won't work in every situation, but usually does good. Fowl generally don't care whose butt the eggs came from.
"If it's in MY nest, it's MY kid!"
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Rocketman52
Rocketman52
44. RE: raising chickens
Apr 29 2011, 10:10 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 29 2011, 12:35 PM EDT
As for myself, I've put a little thought into managing my chickens Post-Z. A big problem is maintaining enough genetic diversity to keep you're flock going past the first generation.

However, I've been doing a little research. My favorite method, theoretically, would be the "Spiral Mating Method", coupled with multiple chicken tractors.

Basically, you would start with a good amount of hens. Divide them into several "Families", and label each (Ex: Red, Green, Blue, Yellow; or 1, 2, 3, 4). Each group is given a single rooster. Mating and the raising of the chicks is allowed, and at the end of the season, the new cockerels and the extra pullets are harvested for meat.

Next season, the roosters are rotated. Red goes to Green, Green goes to Blue, Blue goes to Yellow, and Yellow goes to Red. And the process continues. If a rooster becomes too aged, retire or harvest him, and replace him with a cockerel bred from himself and his original family.

Use the multiple chicken tractors to, obviously, move them around your base, where ever you are. You minimize cleanup and keep the families from interbreeding. Additionally, each family can be allowed a day to free-range, if you so desire, in rotation.

From what I understand, this can keep genetic diversity through several generations, or for decades.
EDIT: As I understand, the more "families" you have, the longer the genetic diversity of your flock will last.

I heard about it in a magazine called Backyard Poultry. I fully recommend it to anyone interested.
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crittergetter
crittergetter
45. RE: raising chickens
Jul 19 2011, 1:28 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 19 2011, 1:28 PM EDT
"Something has come to my attention in the posts for raising animals and barter of all things...

It seems nobody take into consideration, diversification...

If you are going to raise animals for survival, you should diversify, raise many types of food animals. that way you will gain a broader band of benefits and are less likely to have some catastrophe wipe out your entire food source.

Like preparing for bartering/trade, you are better served by having a large selection of items for trade, than focusing on one item...the one item not everyone will need, but if you have 50 types of items for trade, most everyone will need one of them."
He has the idea. If for some reason say the chickens get an disease it wont wipe out your whole meat source. Chickens are good, as are ducks, & geese. But most birds are noisy but that can be a plus as in alarm system. Rabbits are good also. As for goats they can produce good milk. Its tastes different but its better than none. & if you store a printed process you could try your hand at cheese. Goats will eat anything and everything to the bareground so you have to keep herd manageable for the grasing. I recommend just starting with chickens/rabbit/goat style small farming. Cows and pigs are another story all together. Remember when getting new animals from an outside source, quaranteen them for a month or so or risk looseing them all to disease.
A plus is if chickens get to hard to maintain let them free roam and they become just another wild animal in the local enviroment to easily hunt.
As for protien poisoning rabbits are easier to get it with but eat vegs, fruit, & grains. Shuoldnt be a prob unless its the only thing you eat and any meat will do it to you.
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Alzamon
46. RE: raising chickens
Jul 19 2011, 7:08 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 19 2011, 7:08 PM EDT
First, what if the virus is airbourne, or the chickens/rabbits dont eat contained food resource? (such as blodspatterd grass, or other food source that been in contact with zombies?) How can you be 100% sure that food you are producing not posess a biohazzard? 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
White76Knight
White76Knight
47. RE: raising chickens
Jul 20 2011, 8:12 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 20 2011, 8:12 AM EDT
"First, what if the virus is airbourne, or the chickens/rabbits dont eat contained food resource? (such as blodspatterd grass, or other food source that been in contact with zombies?) How can you be 100% sure that food you are producing not posess a biohazzard? "
The general consensus, according to everything we know about real world viruses and other disease pathogens, is that anything that is capable of infecting humans is highly unlikely to also infect chickens and rabbits. If this does not prove to be the case, however, then we would have to adapt accordingly.

If the infection is airborne, AND can infect living things other than humans, then I figure we're all pretty much boned anyway. LOL
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crittergetter
crittergetter
48. RE: raising chickens
Jul 20 2011, 9:16 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 20 2011, 9:16 AM EDT
Well if the animals have the Zombie virus then quarenteening them will let them become complete Zombies. Thus kill them & burn all the stuff they came in contact. If its in the feed you gave them then your own animals would already be Zombied. And if you fed your new animals with contaminated feed you probably have it too! So just shoot yourself and save me the hassle. lol just jokeing about shooting you 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
White76Knight
White76Knight
49. RE: raising chickens
Jul 20 2011, 10:28 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 20 2011, 10:28 AM EDT
"just jokeing about shooting you"
LOL - but only sort of joking, right?
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crittergetter
crittergetter
50. RE: raising chickens
Jul 20 2011, 11:40 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 20 2011, 11:40 AM EDT
"LOL - but only sort of joking, right?"
No I wouldnt have to shoot him. To get to him I would have to drive and Im to lazy to get out so I would get to test my new steel bumper on his brain bucket lol Save the ammo lol
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Raufgar
Raufgar
51. RE: raising chickens
Jul 20 2011, 12:21 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 20 2011, 12:21 PM EDT
"The general consensus, according to everything we know about real world viruses and other disease pathogens, is that anything that is capable of infecting humans is highly unlikely to also infect chickens and rabbits. If this does not prove to be the case, however, then we would have to adapt accordingly.

If the infection is airborne, AND can infect living things other than humans, then I figure we're all pretty much boned anyway. LOL"
Heh, I'd like to bring your attention to the recent bird flu (Influenza A virus subtype H5N1), swine flu (Swine influenza virus) & mad cow disease (Bovine spongiform encephalopathy) for examples of viral infections that were transmittable to humans.

If we assume the worse case scenario where all domesticated and non-domesticated animal types will be susceptible to the zombification virus without active factors (i.e. being bitten, or having ingested infected tissues), then only specialized quarantine (e.g. airlock-style) will be within acceptable parameters. Not something we, the general public, will be able to implement in the wake of a widespread zombie pandemic.

In which case, having a high plant-based and soy-based diet will be unavoidable for the long term, unless we can supplement that with fish (assuming all cold-blooded water-based life will not be affected, or affected easily)
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VagabondVance
VagabondVance
52. RE: raising chickens
Jul 20 2011, 12:54 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 20 2011, 12:54 PM EDT
"Heh, I'd like to bring your attention to the recent bird flu (Influenza A virus subtype H5N1), swine flu (Swine influenza virus) & mad cow disease (Bovine spongiform encephalopathy) for examples of viral infections that were transmittable to humans.

"
I'd like to bring to your attention that he's talking about the opposite vector, as in the virus is going from human to poultry. Also given how feed would run out after Z-day and cattle would go back to grazing which is much healthier than force-feeding them dead cow bits.
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White76Knight
White76Knight
53. RE: raising chickens
Jul 20 2011, 4:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 20 2011, 4:07 PM EDT
"Heh, I'd like to bring your attention to the recent bird flu (Influenza A virus subtype H5N1), swine flu (Swine influenza virus) & mad cow disease (Bovine spongiform encephalopathy) for examples of viral infections that were transmittable to humans."
And aside from what Vance said, each of those is still just one human and one animal.
H1N1 or H5N1 are birds and humans.
Swine flue is swine and humans
mad cow disease is cows and humans.

None of them represents a single virus that will infect cows and swine and birds and humans all at once. My point is that even if the virus that caused zombies infected your chickens, your rabbits would probably be fine, or vice versa. In either case, I would destroy my stock of whatever species of animal was susceptible to the virus and live on the other.

Again, though, if the virus CAN infect across multiple vectors, then that would complicate things considerably.
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timberrattler
timberrattler
54. RE: raising chickens
Jul 20 2011, 5:04 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 20 2011, 5:04 PM EDT
http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/heritage/

Look into heritage or heirloom varieties of livestock.

The animals raised in modern factory farms these days would have a hard time adapting to the open range.
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White76Knight
White76Knight
55. RE: raising chickens
Jul 21 2011, 8:12 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 21 2011, 8:12 AM EDT
"http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/heritage/

Look into heritage or heirloom varieties of livestock.

The animals raised in modern factory farms these days would have a hard time adapting to the open range."
Great link, Timber. Thanks.
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crittergetter
crittergetter
56. RE: raising chickens
Jul 21 2011, 10:01 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 21 2011, 10:04 AM EDT
"Heh, I'd like to bring your attention to the recent bird flu (Influenza A virus subtype H5N1), swine flu (Swine influenza virus) & mad cow disease (Bovine spongiform encephalopathy) for examples of viral infections that were transmittable to humans.

If we assume the worse case scenario where all domesticated and non-domesticated animal types will be susceptible to the zombification virus without active factors (i.e. being bitten, or having ingested infected tissues), then only specialized quarantine (e.g. airlock-style) will be within acceptable parameters. Not something we, the general public, will be able to implement in the wake of a widespread zombie pandemic.

In which case, having a high plant-based and soy-based diet will be unavoidable for the long term, unless we can supplement that with fish (assuming all cold-blooded water-based life will not be affected, or affected easily)"
Swine flu and chicken flu was from contact with infected animal by a person which already had a compromised immune system. & they were at large dirty farms. Once it caught in humans its is passed like the normal flu IE contact or close proximity. So quarenteen should worka as long as you keep it a safe distance from the hide/base.
As for mad cow disease it was from consuming infected beef. Im fuzzy on how it spread in the cow population. But it started by cows being fed ground up infected dead cows in their normal feed. As for us we cant get it from touching them we have to consume them.
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Redrighthand
Redrighthand
57. RE: raising chickens
Jul 21 2011, 8:50 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 21 2011, 8:50 PM EDT
Diversification is the only answer to continued food security. If you rely on any single staple, a failed crop = disaster. A diverse system is more stable, and more productive. The duck/fish/greens example is a great example of how a diverse setup actually works for you, and reduces the amount of time you need to spend on farming. Ducks are great pest control. Chickens are great scratchers - why bother turning over topsoil for replanting when you can scatter some feed and let your chooks do the rest? Similarly, pigs will happily break soil for you, and fertilise as they do it just as the chickens do in the above example. Google "chicken tractor" for some good ideas. Don't forget some of the other useful outputs from chickens: feathers, and heat. Not a bad idea to build your coop on the side of your hothouse, and then it'll be warmer though winter. Ducks are also good with rice paddies:

http://permaculture.org.au/2009/03/07/the-one-duck-revolution/
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crittergetter
crittergetter
58. RE: raising chickens
Jul 22 2011, 5:52 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 22 2011, 5:52 PM EDT
"Diversification is the only answer to continued food security. If you rely on any single staple, a failed crop = disaster. A diverse system is more stable, and more productive. The duck/fish/greens example is a great example of how a diverse setup actually works for you, and reduces the amount of time you need to spend on farming. Ducks are great pest control. Chickens are great scratchers - why bother turning over topsoil for replanting when you can scatter some feed and let your chooks do the rest? Similarly, pigs will happily break soil for you, and fertilise as they do it just as the chickens do in the above example. Google "chicken tractor" for some good ideas. Don't forget some of the other useful outputs from chickens: feathers, and heat. Not a bad idea to build your coop on the side of your hothouse, and then it'll be warmer though winter. Ducks are also good with rice paddies:

http://permaculture.org.au/2009/03/07/the-one-duck-revolution/"
An attached chicken coop....... well the stink and sanitation issues for one. Another there are 1000s of things to raise/eat. Diverse is great but dont over do it. The Great Potato Famine was cuz not deverse on food crops and most everyone grew exact same potato. Deverse breeds are good too.
Horses, Llamas, mules, dogs (large breeds), and cows to name just a few animals that can be rode, used as a pack animal, or used to tow/pull carts/sleds/wagons. When I was growing up a older farmer used to have his dog pull his grandkids around in a lil wagon. He also had a cow that would let you ride her and by tugging on a ear for direction she could be turned.
But protect everything from wild animals. Speaking of which there could be dog packs to worry about (with any Apox/doomsday event). And dogs that are hungery or have gone wild could become a real danger to people and your animals.
Just be creative and experiment.
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nickmysta555
nickmysta555
59. RE: raising chickens
Jul 22 2011, 6:30 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 22 2011, 6:30 PM EDT
i agree with the goats and i might also grow rice as my BOL is in the mountains. i'll try to have it as close to a river for fish as well, gonna live like the japanese but with goats Do you find this valuable?    
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