Location: PedroAsani's Survival Plan - Part 3: Digging In - Food

Discussion: Sheep and cotton plantsReported This is a featured thread

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Ke6n
Ke6n
Sheep and cotton plants
Nov 3 2010, 4:00 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2010, 4:00 AM EDT
Cotton is a really bad plant to grow, i know you can make clothing from it but why not just use the sheeps wool?

I say this because cotton plants soak up alot of water... so much that the cotton fields actually caused a drought where i live.
Sheeps wool can be spun really fine for summer clothing or less fine for winter. Its also really breathable and fire retardent.

Just some stuff to think about.
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Keyword tags: Crops Food Livestock Stockpile
PedroAsani
PedroAsani
1. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 19 2011, 3:18 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 19 2011, 3:18 PM EDT
Sheeps wool will be used for clothing, however cotton is still useful and in some cases necessary. For instance, cotton makes better bandage material. Do you find this valuable?    
shadowmancer
shadowmancer
2. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 11 2012, 12:25 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 11 2012, 12:52 PM EDT
Cotton would be too labour intensive and deplete the soil, massive armies of slaves or share croppers were required for it's production before mechanization. I would personally grow bast fiber plants for cloth. They will grow anywhere and are not resource intensive to grow and also provide a source of food or other useful items. mmmm flax seed, rye and wheat porridge mmmmmm my favoret breakfast lol. Processing bast fiber is labour intensive but it is less so than cotton agriculutre without technology and pesticides. Linen makes a better bandage then cotton it's no longer used by hospitals because it was sadisitcally expensive lol damn cheap buggers. The stinging nettle will produce a fiber excellent for cordage and will yeild a rough cloth similar to denim. It was produced in Germany durring ww1 on an industrial scale with limited resources. The nettle is also a source of green and yellow dyes. Nettles also grow easily without the use of pestisides and the young leaves are a source of food. Nettle is one of the first plants to grow in spring. Cotton is to resource and labour intensive and will only grow in limited geographic areas.

Wool is an excellent fiber and can be processed easily and sheep are tasty beasts easy to keep. If you alloy the raw wool with rabbit hair and make it into a felt it provides a quite warm and durrable felt. Processing and dying the wool without modern tech will be...... not difficult but rather revolting........ the primary degreasing agent was revolting and easily available, several times a day lol this revolting liquid degreaser also acts as an excellent fixant for dyes, allume sources will be gone so it's back to roman fixants.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
3. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 11 2012, 3:31 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 11 2012, 3:31 PM EDT
Cotton statistics taken from various pages:

One plant will produce 75 bolls. 175,000 bolls (2,000 plants) will make one bale. One bale will make 1,217 T-shirts. Therefore 1.64 plants per T-shirt. Considering the need for new clothing won't be that large, 200 plants should be enough. Hopefully a decent stockpile of clothes will allow us to put this off for a year or two.
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RainofMails
RainofMails
4. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 11 2012, 4:49 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 11 2012, 4:49 PM EDT
More than a year or two, I'd expect. clothes left exposed to the elements will rot pretty quickly but the clothes stored in people's dressers (or even better, in plastic tubs or those vacuum storage space saver bags) will last for a long time. Look for houses with broken windows when you're scavenging early on, then once you empty those look for the ones with preserved windows and doors since those will have been least exposed to the elements. Do you find this valuable?    
shadowmancer
shadowmancer
5. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 12 2012, 2:06 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 12 2012, 2:19 AM EDT
I have a few questions for clairification purposes

what type of cotton plant long stem or short stem?

Are these production numbers with pesticides or without - cotton has quite a few pests
•Beet Armyworm
•Boll Weevil
•Bollworm/Tobacco Budworm
•Cotton Aphids
•Cutworms
•European Corn Borer
•Fall Armyworm
•Loopers
•Pink Bollworm
•Plant Bugs
•Spider Mites
•Stink Bugs
•Thrips
•Yellowstriped Armyworm
•Whiteflies
to name a few.

What fertlizers were used if any and what is the yeild in organic production?
What is the water consumption?
What is the nutritional requirments of the chosen stain?
Will it deplete the soil for other crops?

Cotton is one of the most labour and resource intensive crops and prior to the agricultural revoultion of the 1950's one of the most unstable. It was only became prominant as a fiber material due to the British Empire. It was produced all over the planet and brought to textile factories from multipul sources. It flourished in the south because of unfree and then cheap labour pools.
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redcomrad
redcomrad
6. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 12 2012, 2:30 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 12 2012, 2:30 AM EDT
Wool from goats would be better than cotton, and would be better than sheep in my opinion. Goats have meat, fur, and milk, sheep have wool and meat I'm pretty. sure but probably the best animal if your large enough would be cows, excellent source of meat,fur, and milk and also if you get the Spanish variety those guys don't need a whole heck of a lot of water. Do you find this valuable?    
PedroAsani
PedroAsani
7. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 12 2012, 3:56 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 12 2012, 3:56 PM EDT
"I have a few questions for clairification purposes

what type of cotton plant long stem or short stem?

Are these production numbers with pesticides or without - cotton has quite a few pests
•Beet Armyworm
•Boll Weevil
•Bollworm/Tobacco Budworm
•Cotton Aphids
•Cutworms
•European Corn Borer
•Fall Armyworm
•Loopers
•Pink Bollworm
•Plant Bugs
•Spider Mites
•Stink Bugs
•Thrips
•Yellowstriped Armyworm
•Whiteflies
to name a few.

What fertlizers were used if any and what is the yeild in organic production?
What is the water consumption?
What is the nutritional requirments of the chosen stain?
Will it deplete the soil for other crops?

Cotton is one of the most labour and resource intensive crops and prior to the agricultural revoultion of the 1950's one of the most unstable. It was only became prominant as a fiber material due to the British Empire. It was produced all over the planet and brought to textile factories from multipul sources. It flourished in the south because of unfree and then cheap labour pools."
No idea. These are generalist numbers for basic usage.

However, I have had experience in making organic natural pesticides for for several of those on the list, including the spider mites.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
8. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 12 2012, 3:59 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 12 2012, 3:59 PM EDT
"Wool from goats would be better than cotton, and would be better than sheep in my opinion. Goats have meat, fur, and milk, sheep have wool and meat I'm pretty. sure but probably the best animal if your large enough would be cows, excellent source of meat,fur, and milk and also if you get the Spanish variety those guys don't need a whole heck of a lot of water."
I intend to have both sheep and goats. More variety of food will be a huge psychological boost than a restricted diet.
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redcomrad
redcomrad
9. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 13 2012, 1:10 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 13 2012, 1:10 AM EDT
"I intend to have both sheep and goats. More variety of food will be a huge psychological boost than a restricted diet."
Agreeable, but problem is in California i don't believe we have sheep except those desert ones and those only good for meat. So meaning well only have goats at the beginning, then we will have to make are way up to cattle who will be are cash crop we will be like the Mexican vaqueros who once roamed California.
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shadowmancer
shadowmancer
10. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 13 2012, 2:38 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 13 2012, 2:39 AM EDT
stinging nettle can be grown anywhere it can be used as a bast fiber like linen and will grow on its own. It is processed like flax into linen. Any fur can be made into a felt for warmth. Do you find this valuable?    
redcomrad
redcomrad
11. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 13 2012, 4:05 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 13 2012, 4:05 AM EDT
Flax can be made into canvas i believe which personally i think s better compared to linen which i think is more of a luxury good. Do you find this valuable?    
PedroAsani
PedroAsani
12. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 13 2012, 10:15 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 13 2012, 10:15 AM EDT
"Agreeable, but problem is in California i don't believe we have sheep except those desert ones and those only good for meat. So meaning well only have goats at the beginning, then we will have to make are way up to cattle who will be are cash crop we will be like the Mexican vaqueros who once roamed California."
Not my problem. I'll import livestock pre-Z.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
13. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 13 2012, 10:17 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 13 2012, 10:17 AM EDT
"stinging nettle can be grown anywhere it can be used as a bast fiber like linen and will grow on its own. It is processed like flax into linen. Any fur can be made into a felt for warmth."
I believe I say on the plan that things like stinging nettles, brambles, roses and other such plants will be used at the lower edges of walls as a deterrent to humans who try to climb in. That goes for Raiders and people trying to break quarantine.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
14. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 13 2012, 10:17 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 13 2012, 10:17 AM EDT
"Flax can be made into canvas i believe which personally i think s better compared to linen which i think is more of a luxury good."
Depends on what you are using it for.
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Zee-Man
Zee-Man
15. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 13 2012, 10:28 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 13 2012, 10:28 AM EDT
Hemp is another plant that makes exceptional fiber. It has been used to make cloth, burlap, and rope. Cloth made from hemp is similar to linen. Hemp is also used for food and fodder. C. Sativa sativa is the species used for industry which shouldn't be confused with C. Sativa indicus.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
16. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 13 2012, 12:39 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 13 2012, 12:39 PM EDT
"Hemp is another plant that makes exceptional fiber. It has been used to make cloth, burlap, and rope. Cloth made from hemp is similar to linen. Hemp is also used for food and fodder. C. Sativa sativa is the species used for industry which shouldn't be confused with C. Sativa indicus.
"
Quick clarification.

Cannabis is the Genus of the plant. Sativa, Indica and Ruderalis are the species. For stoners, Sativa are tall, Indica are short and fat, whilst Ruderalis are hardy but low quality and yield. Geneticist stoners continually try to create the Uberweed by crossing Sativa for height, Indica for yield and Ruderalis for hardiness.

Sativa Sativa is a subspecies, and doesn't indicate it is solely for industry. The Cannabis used in the hemp industry is a specific strain bred for a low to non-existant THC content.
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redcomrad
redcomrad
17. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 13 2012, 7:42 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 14 2012, 6:54 PM EDT
""snip""
Deleted
Edit
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
18. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 13 2012, 10:26 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 13 2012, 10:26 PM EDT
"No weed i don't want my farmers getting stoned off the product ''if they are stoned they aren't working, and if they are working they aren't stoned." So drop it heck I'm not even going to allow cigarettes i consider them disgusting and unnecessary and if i allowed them it would make me look like a hypocrite. You don't like it go up to that hippy commune up there and don't look back, and watch as raiders destroy you because your guards were too stoned they weren't paying attention and they got through."
Actually in a post-Z world the medicinal attributes of cannabis will be greatly desired. The key will be to get the right balance of the major cannabinoids to produce the right effect.

Your standpoint on cannabis is myopic. Yes, the guards shouldn't be stoned. But they shouldn't be drunk either, and I can guarantee that someone will set up a still or stash a "liberated" case of whisky somewhere.

People need to unwind, to relieve stress. It's going to be alcohol, drugs, sex, or somethins else. The key is to have them do it on their down time, not whilst guarding.

Tobacco won't be grown because it has no nutritional value, no medicinal value and takes up crop space. But not because of some moral viewpoint. Just the logic of necessity.
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RainofMails
RainofMails
19. RE: Sheep and cotton plants
Mar 13 2012, 10:53 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 13 2012, 10:53 PM EDT
Redcomrad, have you ever smoked weed or hung out with anyone who did? You are vastly overrating it's ability to prevent you from doing things. If farmers want to get stoned before they milk the cows or dump garbage into the pig pens it's not really a problem. Do you find this valuable?    
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