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fixdeluxe1 |
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John_234 |
1. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 1:43 AM EST
It's a puncture wound + foreign object + burn. If you know first aid, it'll be really basic. If you don't, you shouldn't try.
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cas13f |
2. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 1:49 AM EST
Field-expedient care is simple. If it's an extremity wound, you rinse the wound and apply the proper style of bandage based on the amount of bleeding. Either a field bandage (cravat), or pressure bandage (either cravats or an isreali bandage).If it's a core wound, you probably have some larger troubles to worry about like organ damage. The treatment otherwise is similar. FOr sucking chest wounds, you'll need a non-permeable membrane (like the plastic wrapper for bandages!) properly attached to form a one-way flutter valve. If it hits an artery, you're pretty well ****** first-aid wise. Do you find this valuable? |
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John_234 |
3. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 1:57 AM EST
You don't wash the damn wound... stopping bleeding is primary. You clean it out when there aren't life threatening symptoms present. Generally all patching a gunshot wound is stuffing it with gauze and applying a pressure bandage.
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cas13f |
4. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 2:12 AM EST
"You don't wash the damn wound... stopping bleeding is primary. You clean it out when there aren't life threatening symptoms present. Generally all patching a gunshot wound is stuffing it with gauze and applying a pressure bandage."You don't stuff a puncture wound, though it has been suggested in the past. That can widen the wound causing further bleeding and possible tear injuries in the tissues. I was taught to apply bandages in a gradient, starting with a plain field bandage (which would simply be a clean dressing with a cravat tied over it, or just a cravat if you're in THAT much of a hurry) with hand pressure, followed by a pressure bandage if the bleeding doesn't stop. If the bleeding STILL doesn't stop (or it's arterial) it's followed by a tourniquet. I was taught to rinse, not clean or wash. Actually, I was taught to do absolutely nothing if the victim wasn't incapacitated, as I'm not a medic. They went through the same classes I did, they can do first aid on themselves if they are not physically impaired from doing so, as I should be busy trying to kill whoever shot them. If they aren't SPRAYING blood from the wound, chances are I'm going to grab them and run before I do anything else. Do you find this valuable? |
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John_234 |
5. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 2:19 AM EST
I was thinking after a wound was staunched, sorry. Remember when that one guy got shot in the ass in Black Hawk Down? The medic was always stuffing his second ******* with gauze.Heard more or less the same in civilian instruction. Add bandages and keep constant pressure. Though that contradicts what used to be the norm a little while ago, with the pressure points and all. Though first responders are told to apply the safest care they can give, and nothing more than what they've been trained on. I guess it changes for post apoc though, where you really don't have an ambulance or a corpsman you can rely on, which means the almost universal rule of leaving in the bullet might be challenged. Not a pretty situation in the least. Do you find this valuable? |
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cas13f |
6. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 2:26 AM EST
While overall it was a pretty realistic movie (according to my Drill Sergeants, anyway. Pro to having July 4th during my training, we actually got ot watch a movie), that part always got on my nerves. If it didn't hit an artery, all he had to do was apply a bandage to it. The location makes it hard as hell to get one in the right spot, but they can deal. It's his ass, he can sit on it to provide pressure if needed.I've read it a bit on pressure points, but they never mentioned it at all in CLS training. Simply use dressings and bandages, and if it's bad enough, throw on a tourniquet. We were also told that in particularly hot combat, you'd throw on a tourniquet first with a basic dressing to protect the wound from MORE foreign objects and do actual aid after you get your ass out of the hot zone. You really would leave the bullet in until you got somewhere safe and relatively sanitary. It's something you really don't want to have to do without specific training on it, as you can cause more harm than good ripping it out. If it isn't causing further damage, you may want to leave it. The heat of the bullet in the air sanitizes it, so you don't really have to worry about that. The infections from it being an open wound, maybe. Unless it's a powdered construction (and those are usually copper anyway) you don't have to worry about heavy metal poisoning. Do you find this valuable? |
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fixdeluxe1 |
7. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 2:30 AM EST
"You don't stuff a puncture wound, though it has been suggested in the past. That can widen the wound causing further bleeding and possible tear injuries in the tissues. I was taught to apply bandages in a gradient, starting with a plain field bandage (which would simply be a clean dressing with a cravat tied over it,NZ Army does give basic first aid,and I know how to apply a bandage and pressure,but was wondering about more complex topics like organ damage and extensive tissue burning.You had to join the Medical Corps as your M.O.S choice... Do you find this valuable? |
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fixdeluxe1 |
8. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 2:32 AM EST
"While overall it was a pretty realistic movie (according to my Drill Sergeants, anyway. Pro to having July 4th during my training, we actually got ot watch a movie), that part always got on my nerves. If it didn't hit an artery, all he had to do was apply a bandage to it. The location makes it hard as hell to get one in the right spot, but they can deal. It's his ass, he can sit on it to provide pressure if needed.Thanks for dispelling my beliefs that you had to immediately remove the bullet carefully and precisely(without causing more tissue damage) with a sterile pair of tweezers.So it's better for bleedings sake to leave it in there? Do you find this valuable? |
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cas13f |
9. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 2:39 AM EST
IF you are SURE you can get it out safely, 100% certain you can do it without causing further damage, sure you can try to get it out. LATER. In a mostly sterile environment. Because of the temporary expansion cavities nad the permanent expansion cavities (as flesh acts almost liek a fluid when impacted at such a high speed), the hole won't be the same size as the bullet. You WILL have ot stretch it open or cut it larger, that's why bullet removal is largely an invasive surgery.
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John_234 |
10. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 3:12 AM EST
"While overall it was a pretty realistic movie (according to my Drill Sergeants, anyway. Pro to having July 4th during my training, we actually got ot watch a movie), that part always got on my nerves. If it didn't hit an artery, all he had to do was apply a bandage to it. The location makes it hard as hell to get one in the right spot, but they can deal. It's his ass, he can sit on it to provide pressure if needed.Well, that wasn't made up. According to the book at least, that's what the medic did. What really got me was Smith getting hit in the femoral though. That was a pretty nasty death. Leadcast bullets, though? They're pretty prevalent in the US, and I'd imagine they'd poison pretty well. Do you find this valuable? |
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cas13f |
11. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 3:16 AM EST
"Well, that wasn't made up. According to the book at least, that's what the medic did. What really got me was Smith getting hit in the femoral though. That was a pretty nasty death.The only time I've seen straight lead is .22LR (and that's rare nowadays, it's at least copper-washed) and cowboy loads. Oh, and wadcutters. And really that won't cause heavy metal poisoning. Unless the lead is dissolving or in a powdered form, it wont leach into the bloodstream. During the healing process, the body will likely form a membrane around it anyway. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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fixdeluxe1 |
12. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 3:38 AM EST
I see,I see.So even if I did have a pair of sterile tweezers and clean gloves,it's better to be left until in a more suitable environment. Thanks. Do you find this valuable? |
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fixdeluxe1 |
13. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 3:44 AM EST
"The only time I've seen straight lead is .22LR (and that's rare nowadays, it's at least copper-washed) and cowboy loads. Oh, and wadcutters.I guess so,but it's impossible to tell what munitions people may use during the Z-invasion(which is what this post is oriented towards).Most people will either be using sporting/hunting ammo or stuff they stole from Wall-Mart(NZ Ware Whare). Do you find this valuable? |
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fixdeluxe1 |
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John_234 |
15. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 5 2010, 3:12 PM EST
"The only time I've seen straight lead is .22LR (and that's rare nowadays, it's at least copper-washed) and cowboy loads. Oh, and wadcutters.Really? Anybody who reloads will generally use lead just because it's cheap. The LaserCast 180 grn boolits are especially popular. I went to a range a half hour out from LA and half the shooters on the line (who owned their own gear of course) were shooting semi wad cutters. This is the anti-lead state we're talking about too. It's definitely not uncommon, just, not something found for factory ammo. Do you find this valuable? |
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CyprusBill |
16. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 6 2010, 12:59 AM EST
"IF you are SURE you can get it out safely, 100% certain you can do it without causing further damage, sure you can try to get it out. LATER. In a mostly sterile environment. Because of the temporary expansion cavities nad the permanent expansion cavities (as flesh acts almost liek a fluid when impacted at such a high speed), the hole won't be the same size as the bullet. You WILL have ot stretch it open or cut it larger, that's why bullet removal is largely an invasive surgery."And that's if you can find the bullet, they're not always at the end of the wound channel. If it's hit a bone it can go anywhere. Or become deformed or fragment into Lord knows how many pieces. One time, we took a lady to the ER who got shot in the lower back. Found the bullet in her shoe. Do you find this valuable? |
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fixdeluxe1 |
17. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 6 2010, 2:18 AM EST
I cannot believe in the homeland of the 2nd Amendment that you have ammunition restrictions based on environmental factors(if that is true)?Over here,best .22LR ammo is the cheap Korean stuff they seem to stock up on.Subsonic but works well for NZ$5.00 a box a/tax.Was getting some pretty consistent groups with it at 25-45ms. And about reloading,why even bother with RImfire ammo? Do you find this valuable? |
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fixdeluxe1 |
18. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 6 2010, 2:19 AM EST
"And that's if you can find the bullet, they're not always at the end of the wound channel. If it's hit a bone it can go anywhere. Or become deformed or fragment into Lord knows how many pieces.Even worse if your hit by Hollow points or mushrooming .308's! Do you find this valuable? |
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demsmine |
19. RE: Gunshot wounds?!?!?!?
Dec 6 2010, 2:23 AM EST
"I cannot believe in the homeland of the 2nd Amendment that you have ammunition restrictions based on environmental factors(if that is true)?That is in the Peoples Republic of California, were large buzzards are going the way of the dinosaur. Not all states have the regulations John234 is referring to. Do you find this valuable? |