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Discussion: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
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ZombieMaster1306 |
Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 4 2011, 12:13 PM EST
1) Do you really have the luxury of wasting either people or time to sit and watch a location a distance away?2) If its not under constant watch, whats to keep the people from waiting hidden for you? 3) What if the people that find your spot are in need of immediate help? Personally i want to list part of my BOL for this, however it is not allowed. The particular building in my BOL i would list also is my quarantine area. The people can be helped immediately if need be, info and supplies can be traded. If they want they can be on there way or choose to stay. It is not in large population immediately, and practical work can be done in the time between random appearances of survivors. If for some odd reason you don't want some one tell them to leave. 1 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you?
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DLOWTHEMAD |
1. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 4 2011, 12:31 PM EST
"1) Do you really have the luxury of wasting either people or time to sit and watch a location a distance away?Really I think the point was more to outline how to have a point to meet refugees away from BOL so that it is not exposed to strangers. The Idea of turning everyone who needs help is distasteful to most people, but basic security procedures hold that you can't let everone know where the BOL is... If they don't know they can't raid it. My personal suggestion is to use a key point in the are that already needs watching... say a key crossroads, intersection, or building. Using this spot as a forward observation point you can have an early warning system for your community, and observe the RVE to see possible intent, health and numbers of any refugees/survivors that show up. As far as immediate help... honestly you are gonna want to check everyone's health before allowing them in anyway, so it makes sense to just go ahead and have/ bring first aid supplies w/ the watcher or support groups. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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ZombieMaster1306 |
2. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 4 2011, 12:55 PM EST
My point, if they stumble upon a little RVE they wont stumble on your living area with a large farmland (to live off) with possible loud noises, patrols, and shooting?The area that "needs watching" is the building i want to use, however it is apart of my BOL so i cant list it. If its important its probably part of your BOL. It is plain wasteful, and waste is not easy to live with in a survival situation. Do you find this valuable? |
toxic_shock |
3. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 4 2011, 1:36 PM EST
1) You don't waste manpower by stationing someone at an RVE. You check it every few days, or once a week for activity. My idea for an RVE is a location that we would pass on the way to a nearby lake, so every time we go fishing, we can check the RVE for activity.2) If you choose a decent RVE, such as a field with little to no cover, both parties will be safe from ambush. 3) If someone finds my RVE and is in immediate need of help...well, to be blunt, too bad. The people in my BOL come first. And if someone can't survive for a couple days on their own, why do I want them in my BOL at all? If they can't take care of themselves to some degree, what value do they bring to my group? Telling strangers to come straight to your BOL without meeting with them first is a very poor idea. Doing so would be providing a disservice to your survival group, the very people you are trying to save. You might as well fly a flag that says "supplies here - raid me". 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
BigLoki |
4. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 4 2011, 3:25 PM EST
Just bypass all the things that them members here have spent a lot of time and planning on ZM, that's my advice to you. None of us can compete with your vast experience, and intellect. You have it all figured out, so why do you bother with us> the lowly masses?Put up a banner, with a map one it, better yet some coordinates in case they know how to use them. Roll out the welcome mat for any stranger you wish to post your notices out far enough for. I'm sure that you will waste less time and resources repelling unwanteds than you would have by following a system that has been put up on a page here that has been adapted from centuries of guarding installations and compounds. If only they had you at the Alamo my good sir, if only you had been alive to plan Vietnam, If only the Chinese had had you to speak to, they wouldn't have needed that god forsaken wall. My hat's off to you man, I will follow you to any Walmart, gun store, and military base that you choose, because clearly you are the man. ~Trembles in the presence of ZMs greatness~ If you had questions, or concerns, or were unclear about the reasoning behind certain aspect, that would be one thing. Simply voice them, and all will be explained, or changed if you are correct. But to jump up and say it's ridiculous, and unrealistic is ignorant. Nowhere in there have I seen anything approaching either of the two. If it doesn't fit into what you believe your plan to be, then skip it, don't discount it unless you have a better idea than the one up there, on the same subject. Not all, or even most will be willing to allow unknown people to their walls, or doors (whichever the case may be) but still want to have a system in place to help others when necessary, or promote some sort of trade without risk to their location or residents. I 8 out of 8 found this valuable. Do you? |
PedroAsani |
5. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 4 2011, 3:54 PM EST
"1) Do you really have the luxury of wasting either people or time to sit and watch a location a distance away?You obviously have not read the page thoroughly. 1) You can use whatever criteria you want for an RVE. If you only spend an hour a day waiting for people to turn up (via the agreed signal system) say from noon until 1pm, would it cost you that much? 2) That's up to you as well. You are picking the RVE, so learn the vantage points, and make sure they are empty before you approach the RVE. 3) Frankly, that is their deal. I promise no immediate aid with my RVE. I am sheltering strangers under my own terms, not theirs. If I watch from 12pm to 1pm, and they turn up at 2pm, then they will have to come back at the right time tomorrow. If that means they bleed to death, so be it. How would I know? Why would it be my fault? The point of an RVE is to allow you to offer assistance to strangers without giving away the location of your BOL. A BOL is by it's very nature something remote, probably hidden, and unlikely to be found except by those that know it is there. An RVE by contrast would be a landmark or natural gathering place. In cities, there are plenty to choose from. More rural areas could be the nearest town, or possibly a lake, stream or spring that would be a likely place for people to wander. When they get there, they see an offer of help, if they stick around or come back at the right time. 8 out of 8 found this valuable. Do you? |
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PedroAsani |
6. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 4 2011, 3:57 PM EST
"My point, if they stumble upon a little RVE they wont stumble on your living area with a large farmland (to live off) with possible loud noises, patrols, and shooting?Only if you have picked a spot that is not remote enough, or not hidden enough. Wasteful? Not really. It keeps people away from your BOL unless you want them there. Did you watch "I Am Legend"? The part with the radio broadcast and meeting spot at the aircraft carrier (both far from his home AND a landmark) was the only sensible part of the film. 7 out of 7 found this valuable. Do you? |
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PedroAsani |
7. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 4 2011, 4:06 PM EST
"The particular building in my BOL i would list also is my quarantine area.And what if people wander up, and then refuse your quarantine terms? (I assume you have some.) They know your location, your fortifications and your numbers. Information any Raider would find useful. Are you just going to let them walk away? Will you kill them if they refuse to stay? Either choice will have consequences for you and the people you are sheltering. None will make your life any more pleasant. Kill them to keep your people safe, and your people may decide you are too ruthless. Let them leave, and you could be inviting Raiders to attack, as well as looking like a bad leader. The RVE was not created out of whimsy, or a lapse in logic. It is the result of rational thought and discussion my many people. Like everything else on this board, it is a compromise. A best endeavour. Yes, you need to spend *some* time checking it. But you won't spend your entire time farming. Patrols, reclamation of land, clearing zombies to prevent a Chain Swarm. These require you to be out and about occasionally. Use that time to check on the RVE. 7 out of 7 found this valuable. Do you? |
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ZombieMaster1306 |
8. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 4 2011, 6:03 PM EST
| Post edited: Feb 4 2011, 6:10 PM EST
That is another thing, i just don't get your guy's worry about "Raiders". RVE's don't help areas that are known. Also if a group wants your supplies what is stopping them from waiting for you at the RVE and following you back to your base. I see a RVE more as a resource drain, the benefits are severely outweighed by the cost. The odds seem that you will most likely miss some people who happen by. In survival situations it is a big deal to be out in sh*t conditions for another night. Also how long do you plan on maintaining it? How long before you quit looking for more survivors? Just because they show-up at my BOL doesn't mean i tell them everything or give them free roam. Do you find this valuable? |
Carnack |
9. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 4 2011, 6:12 PM EST
| Post edited: Feb 4 2011, 6:14 PM EST
Raiders are a mainstay in every timeline past and present. Only a fool would not plan for such things.What's stopping them? Brains. Anyone with some common sense would show up very early to scope out the people there before deciding to make an approach. The withdrawel will be just as stealthy. With all due respect ZM you've already shown us that what you see is very very limited. The ultimate defense is stealth. If they know your location they have a 1Up. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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PedroAsani |
10. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 4 2011, 6:14 PM EST
"That is another thing, i just don't get your guy's worry about "Raiders". "Do you understand what Raiders are? People trying to take your stuff by force. So that worries us. "RVE's don't help areas that are known." I don't undertand what that means. "Also if a group wants your supplies what is stopping them from waiting for you at the RVE and following you back to your base." You take precautions. Seriously, read the page a little better. "I see a RVE more as a resource drain, the benefits are severely outweighed by the cost. The odds seem that you will most likely miss some people who happen by." That depends on what benefits you are thinking about, and what costs. And again, a properly run RVE wouldn't "miss" people. "In survival situations it is a big deal to be out in sh*t conditions for another night." Again, if some people are out wandering around, their survival conditions are their own making. "Also how long do you plan on maintaining it? How long before you quit looking for more survivors?" Depends on who is making the RVE. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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ZombieMaster1306 |
11. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 5 2011, 1:23 PM EST
So raiders require an ability to roam stealthily, across great distances, just to pray off of defenseless survivors?Forgo the noise of fighting zombies you run into during your travels, and the guns and patrols the survivors have. I remember reading somewhere that the force that attacks a defended position needs to be exponentially large force compared to that defending. Even if the odds were 2:1 (attackers/defenders) i think my shooting ability will be adequate for protection. The only concern of "raiders" i have is if the prisoners of the jail were released. I have a friend that wants to go and use the jail as a stronghold but what do you do with the population, they are not the sort you just trust. 0 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
VagabondVance |
12. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 5 2011, 1:27 PM EST
| Post edited: Feb 5 2011, 1:36 PM EST
"Even if the odds were 2:1 (attackers/defenders) i think my shooting ability will be adequate for protection....Wow your hubris is showing kid. Also feel like its time for a quote: To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.-Sun Tzu So when you get surrounded because you chose to ignore advice from your contemporaries, how many of the people traveling with you will listen, when their will to fight gives out, due to you letting them be cut-off from retreat? Do you find this valuable? |
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ZombieMaster1306 |
13. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 5 2011, 1:59 PM EST
| Post edited: Feb 5 2011, 2:34 PM EST
As in the raiders would have to out number my group.raiders must remain a small group to live off of raiding so it will be unlikely that they will be able to attack and win. Edit: I did not mean that i alone would fight them off, but be able to take on my fair share at least. I do know my optimistic look of humanity makes it hard for me to see people being evil as a whole. I also do not see the quantity of people surviving the z-day to be of much threat, if this was any other form of disaster then i could see these worries of true concern but for zombies i don't. Do you find this valuable? |
Knuxz |
14. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 5 2011, 3:16 PM EST
"I also do not see the quantity of people surviving the z-day to be of much threat, if this was any other form of disaster then i could see these worries of true concern but for zombies i don't."The quantity doesn't matter. It's the quality of their skills. If you were to match my technological skills against a hundred studnets from my school, there wouldn't be anymore than two that could best me. Ifyou match my with a hundred students from my school at basketball, I would probably best two. Everyone has different skills, if their's are better than your's, there's a great probability they will win. Do you find this valuable? |
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VagabondVance |
15. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 5 2011, 11:45 PM EST
"raiders must remain a small group to live off of raiding so it will be unlikely that they will be able to attack and win.You are still thinking very conventional, there is more to winning fights than just numbers. Do you find this valuable? |
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ZombieMaster1306 |
16. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 6 2011, 2:27 AM EST
| Post edited: Feb 6 2011, 2:40 AM EST
Even the greatest solider cant take a whole army alone.Not Rambo, Duke Nukem, or even Master Chief. Numbers count for something, then i also have the defenses where an attacker is comparatively exposed. It just seems the only thing you get out of an RVE is secrecy of your BOL, every hr you spend at a RVE is an hr you could have gathered food, found cloths, get water. Most of the groups that are listed (when listed) seem small. Say its an average of 5 people (random). At least two will have to go (if you use the Buddie System) for the time you set for watching. Three people have three opinions on how to check it, one says basically constant, the other says like once a week , the other says an hr a day. If its not too far then maybe you can double it up and spend lunch there. That is an argument ageist my position, make some for your self! I want you to prove me wrong! If you think it is worth while explain to me why! That doubling up the duties make me think there is hope for it, however it will make a place that is notable like a fire pit used for lunch or warmth in winter. I have another idea that counters my position! Why not pick an area that can be fortified, and leave a tiny bit of supplies there and a note saying when you check the location. That will provide immediate help, increase the peoples survivability, extend goodwill, shorten check time, and reduce frequency of visits! All in one go! However, then if you don't want them they may just decide to stay in your RVE. That is another thing there is not a single survivor that is unless, everyone has a job they can do you just need to find the one for them. Also be careful of crazy people you will need to take care with them. Do you find this valuable? |
Tyrantking |
17. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 6 2011, 1:23 PM EST
Have you bothered to consider the skill and equipment of potential raiders? They won't be some stupid gangbangers with 9mils. They're going to be skilled people who might have military grade gear. They've had to survive the same zed-poc as you. You may think you're a good shot but whoever has the better gear is bound to win.
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Carnack |
18. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 6 2011, 2:42 PM EST
"Have you bothered to consider the skill and equipment of potential raiders? They won't be some stupid gangbangers with 9mils. They're going to be skilled people who might have military grade gear. They've had to survive the same zed-poc as you. You may think you're a good shot but whoever has the better gear is bound to win. "Not really. Skill > Common Sense > Equipment. Do you find this valuable? |
deep_sea_diver |
19. RE: Ridiculous, not a realistic endeavor what so ever.
Feb 8 2011, 4:31 PM EST
There was an absurd reality show called, the colony, a group of everyday people, told there was a virus, and taken to a small area left wrecked by katrinia. They tried to rebuild and eek out a meger existance, and were in constant fear of raiders. Dah. A cannon at the front gate, a few heads on pikes and raiders will find eaiser pickings. Pirates, theives, whatever, want easy pickings, they are NOT going to risk half their team trying to take a hard target. If you are a peacenik, earth firster, plan on being absorbed. I would render 1st aid to anyone that needed it. Continued support depends on many factors. Again, a democracy, with everyone arguing about this and that, won't last long. You will need an established chain of command, with a leader than you can trust to make the big decisions. Next a staff of officers, to maintain progress towards certain goals. You can establish a senate, after the crisis has passed, like 20 years after the crisis has passed. Face it, with a total collapse, of society, the world as you knew it, will be gone. To survive, things will have to change. You can either adapt, or go the way of the dinosaur.
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