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Discussion: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge

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DEVILDOGMP	The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 12:28 PM EST Some say a single survival gun should be an AR-15 for its light weight, wealth of accessories and fast handling. Others stand by the venerable AK for its reliability. Still others swear as long as you have a good sidearm you could want nothing else. I disagree, I say the 12 Gauge is the best and most easily acquired. It is hard to beat a 12 bore for flexibility and versatility. Stuff it with slugs and youre good on zombie sized targets out to 100 meters. Feed it some buck-shot and you have some more up-close-and-personal stopping powere that anything that doesnt sport a tripod or an impact fuse. Switch to light birdshot and you can even feed your family. A Remmington 870 slide action seems the best choice, and doesnt make a large dent in your savings. You can also swap out the stock with a simple screwdriver or hex wrench an configure it with a bare pistol grip or folding stock, but those are uncomfortable to me. I say the Speedfeed pistol grip stock is the most comfortable and handy. It holds 2 spair amo maggazines on either side of the stock that are spring loaded and hold two extra rounds. Accessing these and feeding them into the shotty are very simple and provide you with 4 easy extra rounds. Its alot easier to blow off a zombies head with a shotty than stand there and line up your red dot or your ACOG or whatever and land a precision shot in the forehead. So what do you think? Agree? Disagree? And why? Let me know, Semper Fi! Post reply Do you find this valuable? Keyword tags: None
2WheeledSpeed	1. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 12:33 PM EST I'm kinda forced to agree, as a 12 Gauge Pardner Pump is the only long gun I have right now aside from a .410 and some .22LR rifles :) But yes, I agree that a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun is an extremely versatile survival weapon. Timber has said it a zillion times, a 12 gauge pump and a box of chokes is a great survival weapon. Shotguns do have their disadvantages, but when backed up by a rifle wielding buddy they aren't that bad. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DEVILDOGMP	2. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 12:39 PM EST I have to say that IMO most zombie confrontations will be up close and personal. Not to mention you can hunt with the shotty and not have to worry about wasting rounds. I mean it costs alot less to buy shotgun rounds than it does to buy some pistol and rifle rounds. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
possumblaster	3. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 1:35 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 2:17 PM EST I completely disagree. First off, because of having to manually reload each individual shell. Secondly, you have NO range with a shotgun. Thirdly, most shotguns stocks are not in line with the bore so after each shot there is a ridiculous amount of muzzle climb. Fourth, most only hold 5-7 rounds. Fifth, many shotguns are difficult to completely tear down. Sixth, the only cheap shotgun shells are birdshot, which are USELESS against a human/zombie. Seventh, slow moving lead projectiles have no penetration whatsoever. With an assault rifle you can kill a zombie/group of raiders at 600m, hunt deer, do close quarters fighting, and reload a 30 round magazine in a second or two. The 5.56 shines up close and personal when the bullet can fragment on impact, and does not get enough credit for damage dealt. And I still want to know where all of this "AK's are more reliable" stuff comes from. I don't get it. 99% of your AKM lookalikes in the US are complete garbage made from junk kits from all over the world. I've seen 10 times more AKM knockoff clones fail than any WELL made AR such as Colt or BCM shooting REAL ammo like M855, not Wolf. To me, the only reason to have a shotgun is for hunting birds. I will catch flak for talking down shotguns, but I just don't think they are as great as everyone seems to make them out to be. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
DEVILDOGMP	4. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 1:51 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 1:51 PM EST "I completely disagree. First off, because of having to manually reload each individual shell. Secondly, you have NO range with a shotgun. Thirdly, most shotguns stocks are not in line with the bore so after each shot there is a ridiculous amount of muzzle climb. Fourth, most only hold 5-7 rounds. Fifth, many shotguns are difficult to completely tear down. Sixth, the only cheap shotgun shells are birdshot, which are USELESS against a human/zombie. Seventh, slow moving lead projectiles have no penetration whatsoever. " How often are you going to be able to take a shooters stance, aim steady and pick off a zed with a head shot at 600m dude? The 5.56 is a great round, but price wise, its more expensive. Not to mention much more difficult to maintain than a shotgun. You can also puchase shotguns with magazines, such as the saiga, and the stock i reference above is on line with the bore, hardly any mussle climb with my 12 gauge. I never said AK's are more reliable btw, i suggest you re read and re evaluate that statement. I said they are reliable. I am a personal AR fan and got blasted for that. Point is there is more versatility with a shotgun, and more than likely a confrontation with a zed is going to be up close and only when needed, why are you going to want to split a zombie wig when hes 800 yards off just wandering around aimlessly? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	5. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 2:10 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 2:10 PM EST Possum with all due respect range is a factor more vs humans than zombies. Because unless you're defending standing around shooting Zs is just pissing away bullets with no purpose. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
possumblaster	6. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 2:13 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 2:20 PM EST "why are you going to want to split a zombie wig when hes 800 yards off just wandering around aimlessly?" My preparation plans are more for fighting raiders than zombies, so I'm not concerned about having to make a head shot every single time. Nor am I concerned about shooting a wandering zombie. I'm concerned about being able to take out a group of raiders from 500m or so away before they can make it to my position. If I'm armed with only a shotgun I can't really do anything about them until they are right up on me. Pretty much, I feel I have a higher chance of having to fight off hood rats fleeing the cities who are trying to come steal my stuff. For example, Katrina. I reread your post and still feel exactly how I did before. How are shotgun shells cheaper? The only lethal shotgun rounds are buckshot and slugs (basically) and they are extremely more expensive than 5.56 rounds. Slugs/buckshot go for around $1 apiece, where a 5.56 round is only about 30 cents. I am only saying that I disagree with you and am explaining why. And @ Carnack: Yes, I gotcha. But like I said earlier in this post, that's what my preparations are for: fighting people. When the SHTF other humans are going to be more of a threat than zombies in my opinion. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DEVILDOGMP	7. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 2:19 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 2:19 PM EST I'll agree with that carnack, I mean seriously who said you couldnt carry a rifle and a shotty? Sure its alot of weight, but alot of people on here cannot own assault rifles. Shotguns are readily available, inexpensive, and easily maintained and upgraded. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
possumblaster	8. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 2:23 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 2:23 PM EST "I'll agree with that carnack, I mean seriously who said you couldnt carry a rifle and a shotty? Sure its alot of weight, but alot of people on here cannot own assault rifles. Shotguns are readily available, inexpensive, and easily maintained and upgraded." And to this I would say I would rather carry one weapon platform that I know inside and out, than try to operate two different weapons. It's just a difference of opinions, I'm not saying you are wrong, I am just saying that this is what I think. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DEVILDOGMP	9. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 2:23 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 2:23 PM EST "My preparation plans are more for fighting raiders than zombies, so I'm not concerned about having to make a head shot every single time. Nor am I concerned about shooting a wandering zombie. I'm concerned about being able to take out a group of raiders from 500m or so away before they can make it to my position." Right and they arent going to get your position from your mussle flash right? Why even chance it? I think you got those prices reversed on the rounds unless youre getting royally screwed, I bought a box of 12g 30 rounds for 15 bucks at my local gunstore. This is where your whole position comes to a problem: does this thread read "Ultimate Raider Gun"? No. Shotguns are inexpensive and easy to use for the new gun owner compared to an assault rifle which not many people can buy. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DEVILDOGMP	10. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 2:26 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 2:29 PM EST "And to this I would say I would rather carry one weapon platform that I know inside and out, than try to operate two different weapons. It's just a difference of opinions, I'm not saying you are wrong, I am just saying that this is what I think." If you are familiar with an AR 15 and its workings, then working a shotgun would be a piece of cake. What do you do? You load the shells pump it and vooallah! youre ready to fire. You dont have to rack the charging handle or fumble for a new mag or adjust your sights for windage and humidity and all that bs. You have a good point, but as I recall you are ex military right? How many of us can own assault rifles on this sight? 10? 15 maybe at the most id assume. A shotgun or an over and under maybe would be the best ticket. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DEVILDOGMP	11. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 2:31 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 2:31 PM EST ". I reread your post and still feel exactly how I did before. " I meant about the AK dude. Re read my original thread then read your response to my calling the ak reliable. I didnt praise the weapon like you impose. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
rabidbeaver	12. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 3:01 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 3:01 PM EST I disagree with your statement possum about how the only lethal shotgun rounds are buckshot and slugs. Sure bird shot may not have the best stopping power but rest assured if your within spitting distance of someone bird shot will put a hole in them bigger than any slug. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	13. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 3:03 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 3:06 PM EST "And to this I would say I would rather carry one weapon platform that I know inside and out, than try to operate two different weapons. It's just a difference of opinions, I'm not saying you are wrong, I am just saying that this is what I think." That makes sense for you. However a general purpose weapon with multiple applications that is widely available and commonplace (which allows for low-profile) is very solid when it comes to common folk. The prices are also easier to factor since from what I gather ARs are top-shelf weapons. If you prefer the AR that is your choice. Arguing about guns when it comes down to preference is a waste of time. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DEVILDOGMP	14. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 3:04 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 3:04 PM EST I agree rabidbeaver, i just honestly think most zombie encounters will be up close, i dont think you need like a .50 cal rifle for that. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
possumblaster	15. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 3:05 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 3:12 PM EST OK, you did say: "some people prefer AR's some people prefer AK's, I like shotguns, what do you think". And I even posted why I thought what I thought. That's all I'm doing. I didn't say that "you" said AK's are reliable, I said I didn't get where the general consensus comes from all over this site that they are reliable. Just like you said, and I quote: "Others stand by the venerable AK for its reliability" which is why I asked where all that comes from, not pointing to you. And when I see "ultimate zombie gun" I think zombie scenario, not necessarily zombie only targets. If you are ONLY referring to shooting zombies then that's a whole different story. I'm on this site for the whole scenario, not just the zombies. (And yes I was a 19K2O for 3 years and change and a SDM so my focus has always been on ranged combat. I do still feel that the human threat is the greatest threat.) Post reply Do you find this valuable?
possumblaster	16. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 3:10 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 3:23 PM EST "I disagree with your statement possum about how the only lethal shotgun rounds are buckshot and slugs. Sure bird shot may not have the best stopping power but rest assured if your within spitting distance of someone bird shot will put a hole in them bigger than any slug." From what I know, birdshot can be used as self defense if you are really close. But, personally I wouldn't trust birdshot to get the job done. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DEVILDOGMP	17. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 3:15 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 3:15 PM EST "OK, you did say "some people prefer AR's some people prefer shotguns, what do you think". That's all I'm doing here. I didn't say that "you" said AK's are reliable, I said I didn't get where the general consensus comes from all over this site that they are reliable. Just like you said, and I quote: "Others stand by the venerable AK for its reliability" which is why I asked where all that comes from, not pointing to you. And when I see "ultimate zombie gun" I think zombie scenario, not necessarily zombie only targets. If you are ONLY referring to shooting zombies then that's a whole different story. I'm on this site for the whole scenario, not just the zombies. And in your original post you asked if anyone disagreed, well I was just shedding my thoughts on what I felt about shotguns. I just don't like them, and that's only my opinion. I'm not saying you can't or anyone else can't like them. (And yes I was a 19K2O for 3 years and change and a SDM so my focus has always been on ranged combat. I do still feel that the human threat is the greatest threat.)" This is just a fun discussion on Zombie killing. I know that some people believe hey you cant have one without the other, but I think that its fun to think about it. Would you rather waste your 5.56 rounds on zombies and raiders alike? Or would you rather use your 5.56's on some really threatening Raiders and use your shotgun for zombies thus saving ammo on your AR? And like I said, how many people can legally own assault weapons on this site? not many. This is the best way to go for someone who is just learning how to use a firearm. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DEVILDOGMP	18. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 3:40 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 3:40 PM EST "From what I know, birdshot can be used as self defense if you are really close. But, personally I wouldn't trust birdshot to get the job done." This we can finally agree on, just the name bird shot doesnt give me much hope. Im not trying to argue with you but rather debate. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Whybother08	19. RE: The Ultimate Zombie Gun: The 12 Gauge Mar 6 2011, 5:30 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 6 2011, 5:30 PM EST If you want to cover as much survival bases as you can in one gun, I'd say the 12-gauge pump is a good choice. Maybe a rifle like the AR would supersede a shotgun if you lived in Farmville, Kentucky, but still... NO range? Slugs are accurate out to around 80 yards. While extra range is better, when would you truly need that accuracy? (this is where that bit about location comes in) So what if you don't have a 30 round detachable mag on it? Use some foresight and reload when there's a 'lull' in the shooting. I really don't get the big deal about having twelve 30 rounders ready to go in a chest rig with a military-style rifle in your hands. Ammo is more expensive for the shotgun. True. So is the AR-15 itself. A good one costs what, $1200 stock? And then you add whatever rail-hangings you might need/want, and it's a hefty cost. Plus you save more $ because you don't need to buy mags for a shotgun. AR-15's aren't available EVERYWHERE. A non-neutered one is practically illegal here in NJ. Am I screwed because I'm not allowed to have one? (Please no NRA rhetoric, I'm not trying to start crap here.) Hunt with 5.56? Meh. From what I hear, that's kind of iffy, while not impossible. Maybe it's because I don't see myself as a tacticool operator killing leather-clad raiders by the hundreds, but what is so special about having these kinds of weapons? I'm not saying that they're completely useless and nobody should get them, but why are they held on a pedestal like they are? Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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