Location: PedroAsani's Survival Plan - Part 3: Digging In - Food

Discussion: Feed for cows

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White76Knight	Feed for cows Mar 17 2011, 12:24 AM EDT \| Post edited: Mar 17 2011, 12:26 AM EDT Just looking over your crop/livestock plan here and, with respect, I think I may have noticed a discrepancy. Now I freely admit that what I know about livestock could be written on a postage stamp, so I may be wrong here, but I thought I'd bring it to your attention anyway, just in case it might help. According to the homesteading books I have consulted on the subject, I think you may have overestimated how much feed you will need daily for cows. In your plan you say 100 lbs of feed per day, but my homesteading book says 10 lbs of grain and 50 lbs of hay for a dairy cow. Now I know your 100 lb number was for all grain feed, but 100 lbs is still quite a difference from 60 lbs. Even on an all grain diet, 100 lbs still seems a little high. Post reply Do you find this valuable? Keyword tags: Crops Food Livestock Stockpile
PedroAsani	1. RE: Feed for cows Mar 19 2011, 3:17 PM EDT But I am not going to be using grain feed, nor hay. This is an all-pasture diet, using Freisian cows. Less space needs to be devoted to them. One of the differences between the beef cows in the US today and the ones used historically is the age of them. By grain feeding you can take a calf to slaughter-weight in a lot less time than it used to. Pasture diet takes longer for the cow to put on weight, which costs money. However, in a post-Z world all you have is time. My numbers came from a fair number of sources, so it may take a while for me to dig out. However, it would not surprise me if the difference is made up in the water-weight of the grain. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
White76Knight	2. RE: Feed for cows Mar 19 2011, 4:34 PM EDT If I recall correctly, your plan calls for all of this to be implemented on a Caribbean island somewhere, so it may not be an issue for you, but don't forget that pasture may not be available all year round. If not, it would require one or more pastures to be used for feeding, plus one or more pastures to be cut and dried for hay to be used during the non-growing months. Now if your location permits your pasture land to be green and growing all year round then please disregard this concern. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	3. RE: Feed for cows Mar 19 2011, 4:48 PM EDT "If I recall correctly, your plan calls for all of this to be implemented on a Caribbean island somewhere, so it may not be an issue for you, but don't forget that pasture may not be available all year round. If not, it would require one or more pastures to be used for feeding, plus one or more pastures to be cut and dried for hay to be used during the non-growing months. Now if your location permits your pasture land to be green and growing all year round then please disregard this concern. " Yes, this is one reason why I went for all pasture feed. Should I relocate somewhere colder then I will have to use more grain feed, which means more space for growing grain. Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Oakspar77777	4. RE: Feed for cows Mar 20 2011, 9:26 AM EDT Grain weight is denser than hay weight in calories. Thus, 10lbs of grain has more calories (thus less poundage needs to be fed). 50/10 is a good ratio for a small breed/non-milking cow. 100/0 is actually a terrible ratio unless the cow is working fresh pasture regularly (an all hay diet is a bit shy in some vitamins lost in the drying process). A cow on all forage will need a lot of space - they will trample a good deal of the so-so feed on the way to picking the best parts of the pasture out. Rotation (dividing up your pasture into tight lots and forcing the cow to graze one out before moving to the next) is your best strategy for maximizing cow to land ratio. Also, even in a scenario where you have 12 month pasture, you still will likely want to grow grain (if not hay) to further maximize your space. Depending on your climate, alfalfa, timothy, winter wheat, and oats make for good rotates. I would mix in soy as well, not as cow feed - unless you want your cows to get bloat - but as a nitrogen fixer (and chicken feed). Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	5. RE: Feed for cows Mar 20 2011, 10:18 AM EDT Oak, you need to read the plan section as well for this to make sense. I found calculations for the amount of grain required for a cow on an all grain diet. It said you need 100 lbs. Remember that this is for a dairy cow, since we will be looking to get milk and cheese from them for as long as possible before slaughter. Dairy eat more than beef cows. Because growing grain takes up space, pasture is a better fit for when space is at a premium. Freisian cows can survive very well on an all pasture diet. Whilst it might be possible to harvest extra grain and hay as a byproduct of the food grown for human consumption, there simply wouldn't be room to grow the food for the cattle. Comfrey is my preferred N fixer. It doubles as chicken feed too. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
White76Knight	6. RE: Feed for cows Mar 20 2011, 3:56 PM EDT All of which is why I say in my plan: I'm not interested in wasting any more labor than I have to, and growing crops to feed animals rather than to feed people seems like just such a waste of labor (and space). It seems easier to me to keep no more livestock than is absolutely necessary, and even then choosing only such livestock as will feed itself with natural wild forage (as opposed to specially planted forage) if possible, and get most of my fresh meat from fish and wild game. It might not work for everyone, depending on skills and location, but its an option. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	7. RE: Feed for cows Mar 21 2011, 3:20 PM EDT "All of which is why I say in my plan: I'm not interested in wasting any more labor than I have to, and growing crops to feed animals rather than to feed people seems like just such a waste of labor (and space). It seems easier to me to keep no more livestock than is absolutely necessary, and even then choosing only such livestock as will feed itself with natural wild forage (as opposed to specially planted forage) if possible, and get most of my fresh meat from fish and wild game. It might not work for everyone, depending on skills and location, but its an option. " But how many would classed as "absolutely necessary"? I'm not as up on the genetic diversity requirements of cattle and other livestock as I might need, but I think that you need more than one breeding pair to avoid ugly mutations down the line. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
White76Knight	8. RE: Feed for cows Mar 21 2011, 10:50 PM EDT "But how many would classed as "absolutely necessary"? I'm not as up on the genetic diversity requirements of cattle and other livestock as I might need, but I think that you need more than one breeding pair to avoid ugly mutations down the line." Oh for sure, but if you can get as much meat as you need from fish and other wild game such as deer an the like, then any more cows than zero is more than "absolutely necessary". I'm not saying that you shouldn't raise any livestock at all, nor that I won't be raising any myself. I am, however, going to be very selective about WHAT animals I raise and why, with an eye towards letting mother nature do as much of the breeding, care and feeding work as possible, so that I can devote my efforts to other things. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
redcomrad	9. RE: Feed for cows Mar 27 2011, 2:29 PM EDT "This is an all-pasture diet, using Freisian cows. Less space needs to be devoted to them. " just asking if i was raising longhorn cattle mainly for beef and cowhides how much land would i need if i wanted to feed them free range style if i have say 1 bull and 24 cows. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
deep_sea_diver	10. RE: Feed for cows Apr 1 2011, 7:58 AM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 1 2011, 7:58 AM EDT All i would need to take care of cows, is a bottle of bbq sauce and a sharp knife. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
randomknife666	11. RE: Feed for cows Apr 1 2011, 8:00 AM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 1 2011, 8:00 AM EDT "All i would need to take care of cows, is a bottle of bbq sauce and a sharp knife." This made me laugh. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	12. RE: Feed for cows Apr 1 2011, 1:03 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 1 2011, 1:03 PM EDT "Oh for sure, but if you can get as much meat as you need from fish and other wild game such as deer an the like, then any more cows than zero is more than "absolutely necessary". I'm not saying that you shouldn't raise any livestock at all, nor that I won't be raising any myself. I am, however, going to be very selective about WHAT animals I raise and why, with an eye towards letting mother nature do as much of the breeding, care and feeding work as possible, so that I can devote my efforts to other things." There is an assumption there that (a) the fish and game will be available (remember that my plan covers nuclear disasters, biological contagion, etc) and (b) you are able to hunt/fish successfully. The animals could avoid the area because of earthquakes disrupting current flows, zombie packs, and other manner of things. As a possible augmentation of food supplies, it is a good idea. As a reliable, guaranteed way to sustain yourself, it is lacking. Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
PedroAsani	13. RE: Feed for cows Apr 1 2011, 1:08 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 1 2011, 1:08 PM EDT "just asking if i was raising longhorn cattle mainly for beef and cowhides how much land would i need if i wanted to feed them free range style if i have say 1 bull and 24 cows. " IANAC (I Am Not A Cattle-man) but from what I have read you will need to grow a lot of grain for that. Because of the short time-to-slaughter, they eat around 100 lbs of feed a day. You might be able to lessen this, but just going by these numbers (and you know I love numbers) you need 2,500 lbs of feed a day, or 912,500 lbs a year. Using just the corn numbers from my plan, at 10,000 lbs an acre you need 91.25 acres of land to feed them. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Filadog	14. RE: Feed for cows Apr 1 2011, 3:08 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 1 2011, 3:08 PM EDT "just asking if i was raising longhorn cattle mainly for beef and cowhides how much land would i need if i wanted to feed them free range style if i have say 1 bull and 24 cows. " Can't answear this because alot depends on your pasture A well managed quality pasture it could be as low as 1 acre per cow Go out west where the pasture is poorer in many areas it could go up to 25 acres per cow Post reply Do you find this valuable?
White76Knight	15. RE: Feed for cows Apr 2 2011, 9:05 AM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 2 2011, 9:05 AM EDT "There is an assumption there that (a) the fish and game will be available (remember that my plan covers nuclear disasters, biological contagion, etc) and (b) you are able to hunt/fish successfully. The animals could avoid the area because of earthquakes disrupting current flows, zombie packs, and other manner of things. As a possible augmentation of food supplies, it is a good idea. As a reliable, guaranteed way to sustain yourself, it is lacking." You are absolutely correct here. My plan (while not specific to Zombies, per se) is based on say global conflicts, natural disasters and maybe biological contagions that affect humans but not animals. I haven't taken anything nuclear into consideration. If this is something that you feel is likely to be a threat, given your location, then that is something that hunting/fishing WOULD be affected by. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	16. RE: Feed for cows Apr 2 2011, 10:40 AM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 2 2011, 10:41 AM EDT "You are absolutely correct here. My plan (while not specific to Zombies, per se) is based on say global conflicts, natural disasters and maybe biological contagions that affect humans but not animals. I haven't taken anything nuclear into consideration. If this is something that you feel is likely to be a threat, given your location, then that is something that hunting/fishing WOULD be affected by. " Would the natural disasters include floods, droughts, fires and earthquakes? They all have a history of affecting migration patterns. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
White76Knight	17. RE: Feed for cows Apr 2 2011, 4:16 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 2 2011, 4:16 PM EDT "Would the natural disasters include floods, droughts, fires and earthquakes? They all have a history of affecting migration patterns." I live on an island, there is nowhere for them to run, at least nowhere that they wouldn't make their way back. Aside from that though, there are no earthquakes here, nor floods and, being an island, and thus surrounded by the ocean, droughts are practically impossible. Fires would be worth considering, but as many if not most fires are man made, I think that after the Fall, when there less humans left alive to start them, fires would be less of a threat. During the initial Panic, of course, there would be fires in the towns, and these could well spread to the wilderness areas in some regions, but as long as you have food enough to see you through the first weeks/months, things would slowly start to return to normal. Furthermore, fires would have little effect on fishing, so you'd still have that while you were waiting for everything else to come back. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
redcomrad	18. RE: Feed for cows Apr 3 2011, 8:55 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 3 2011, 8:55 PM EDT "I live on an island, there is nowhere for them to run, " you too have nowere to run in a zedpoc think about... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
randomknife666	19. RE: Feed for cows Apr 3 2011, 8:59 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 3 2011, 8:59 PM EDT "you too have nowere to run in a zedpoc think about..." He can get on a boat, and drive it away, animals can't. Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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Location: PedroAsani's Survival Plan - Part 3: Digging In - Food

Discussion: Feed for cows

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