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Discussion: Bugging out with a disabled person

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ZeMatch	Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 9:34 AM EDT I'm in the process of finalizing my plans to bug out when SHTF. I currently have two people who are going to be in my main group. The plan is to head North far from NYC to either upstate NY or Vermont. However, there is a major snag in the plan. One of my friends wants to take her parents; and her father is paraplegic. He has use of his arms but still requires looking after. This isn't really the problem at all. The REAL problem is that they live in Long Island. There is no way off without either going across the Long Island Sound or going back through NYC. I may luck out and ferries might still run for a while, but I can't count on it. Staying on the island isn't an option either. I would like some advice and to promote discussion for bugging out with disabled people. Post reply Do you find this valuable? Keyword tags: bugging out disabled long island new york city NYC
brandon_a_boyer	1. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 10:18 AM EDT Well there are a few things to consider and i'll try to keep this as linear as possible. The first critical thing you need to remember is that you may have to leave this person behind to die. I know it sounds ******, but it's a simple fact, He cannot survive without help, help can survive without him. Also leaving him might mean leaving your friend behind too. Your survival and the survival of the others in your group depends on being able to accept that fact. Having said that, here's a few things to keep in mind 1 - I'm assuming since you called him a paraplegic that He still has full function of his arms, A shortened 12 gauge with a front pistol grip will be a great weapon for him. 2 - You must move by vehicle. This adds on all of the various issues related to vehicles and you loose the option of ditching the car. Ditching the car means that he'll probably die. 3 - He never gets left alone, period. 4 - he's going to need nearly a year's worth of medical supplies. Medications, colostomy bags, catheters, etc. That's just a few things, I'm sure others have ideas too. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
ZeMatch	2. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 10:23 AM EDT "The first critical thing you need to remember is that you may have to leave this person behind to die. Also leaving him might mean leaving your friend behind too. Your survival and the survival of the others in your group depends on being able to accept that fact. " Yeah, that's something that has been in the back of my mind too. My two friends were talking about this and the one with the parents got really upset over it. She's really close to her parents. My other friend tried to present it as something she might have to face, but it kind of backfired. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
brandon_a_boyer	3. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 10:27 AM EDT "Yeah, that's something that has been in the back of my mind too. My two friends were talking about this and the one with the parents got really upset over it. She's really close to her parents. My other friend tried to present it as something she might have to face, but it kind of backfired." It's something you can talk about but you cannot comprehend how it will feel when you have to make that choice. No one who hasn't left someone to die could possibly know how it would feel. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
ZeMatch	4. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 10:32 AM EDT "It's something you can talk about but you cannot comprehend how it will feel when you have to make that choice. No one who hasn't left someone to die could possibly know how it would feel." Yeah, I know. The stink of it is is that they have family in Canada that they can stay with. The problem is is that they need to wait a few more years so they can tap into their retirement and sell their house. Once that happens, then there's no worry. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Zombie_bob	5. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 10:58 AM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 13 2011, 10:59 AM EDT The Farie is a horrible Idea, Its bad enough being on land with Zombies, Immagin an Infected making its way aboard ship to repp havok. Then is fight or swim in which case Gramps aint much help. Surely there train tracks through there, Id tacticly aquire on of those cool trucks taht also have the retractable train track guides and drive in. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
ZeMatch	6. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 11:06 AM EDT "The Farie is a horrible Idea, Its bad enough being on land with Zombies, Immagin an Infected making its way aboard ship to repp havok. Then is fight or swim in which case Gramps aint much help. Surely there train tracks through there, Id tacticly aquire on of those cool trucks taht also have the retractable train track guides and drive in. " I don't think the LIRR has those trucks, but I could be wrong. I'm a train fan so I know the routes. My original bug out plan for NY was to hit a little used rail line that runs through Brooklyn and connects with the NE Corridor. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	7. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 11:27 AM EDT "I'm in the process of finalizing my plans to bug out when SHTF. I currently have two people who are going to be in my main group. The plan is to head North far from NYC to either upstate NY or Vermont. However, there is a major snag in the plan. One of my friends wants to take her parents; and her father is paraplegic. He has use of his arms but still requires looking after. This isn't really the problem at all. The REAL problem is that they live in Long Island. There is no way off without either going across the Long Island Sound or going back through NYC. I may luck out and ferries might still run for a while, but I can't count on it. Staying on the island isn't an option either. I would like some advice and to promote discussion for bugging out with disabled people." Plenty of people will give you the "ditch him" angle, with all the reasons and benefits. So I will skip that. For an evacuation plan, you need to give a bit more information as to where you and your friends live, where the parents live, and where your BOL is. Coram vs. Hempstead is a different Bug Out Plan. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
brandon_a_boyer	8. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 11:28 AM EDT "The Farie is a horrible Idea, Its bad enough being on land with Zombies, Immagin an Infected making its way aboard ship to repp havok. Then is fight or swim in which case Gramps aint much help. Surely there train tracks through there, Id tacticly aquire on of those cool trucks taht also have the retractable train track guides and drive in. " I have to question the wisdom of someone who doesn't take the five seconds required to use their browser's spell-check tool. The FERRY isn't actually a terrible idea. There's be less of a chance of being over-run, and you know it's there. Rail Trucks aren't a sure thing and the roads would be so congested they'd have no choice but to ditch their car. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Zombie_bob	9. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 11:37 AM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 13 2011, 11:42 AM EDT "I have to question the wisdom of someone who doesn't take the five seconds required to use their browser's spell-check tool. The FERRY isn't actually a terrible idea. There's be less of a chance of being over-run, and you know it's there. Rail Trucks aren't a sure thing and the roads would be so congested they'd have no choice but to ditch their car." Im dsylexic and also at work, goverment computers use the base browsers that have no spell check, and Its a great idea if your in controll of it, if its a public access terminal of transportion your effin idiot, to many hazards and possibilities for infected to get on board in a un turned host ect. And Im sure the old dude cant swim that long, if at all. Given the area, the amount of pedestrian traffic the FERRY is sure to be a high volume traffic area for many people trying to escape the area, thier is no way to ensure the integrety of the public that boards to escape. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
brandon_a_boyer	10. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 11:55 AM EDT "Im dsylexic and also at work, goverment computers use the base browsers that have no spell check, and Its a great idea if your in controll of it, if its a public access terminal of transportion your effin idiot, to many hazards and possibilities for infected to get on board in a un turned host ect. And Im sure the old dude cant swim that long, if at all. Given the area, the amount of pedestrian traffic the FERRY is sure to be a high volume traffic area for many people trying to escape the area, thier is no way to ensure the integrety of the public that boards to escape. " I apolegize for the spelling comment then, far too many people take the entire concept for granted and it upsets me that we watch our language deteriorate into an abbreviated form of itself. It really comes down to how quickly you get out of the city. I personally don't feel that the ferry would be overtly congested, although I don't know that area. for their particular situation it's better than trying to Rambo a truck from the utility company. Also the "old dude" can probably swim better than you or I can, Swimming is a common form of exercise for paraplegics. Honestly the best option would be to map out a series of back-roads to stay off of main roads. Again this depends alot on the particular area. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Zombie_bob	11. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 11:59 AM EDT Start building a viking ship and when the time comes grab him, recruit some minions and then take to the seas collecting supplies from port to port and you Pilage and plunder! WINNING! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
ItsMrManCub	12. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 1:04 PM EDT Its going to be a very hard road indeed when it comes to aiding a disabled person. My advice is to do what you can but remember your own survival is the most important. How capable is her father if I may ask? Depending on the situation you may not be able to make it to them anyways. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
JunkCollector	13. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 3:51 PM EDT Before my parents passed last year, I had bug out plans for me and them. My mother had heart problems, and arthritis in her feet so she couldn't walk long. My father was on oxygen. I collected enough supplies for them for 3 days by foot (thinks to a heavy duty garden cart), but we wouldn't have been able to walk far. By car I had 2 months supply of meds. and oxygen, and a good place to go with other family members. I also researched other sources for meds. and oxygen. I wouldn't have left them alone either. With them it would have been extremely harder to survive, than it is now being alone. But I wouldn't have understood if others left us behind because my parents couldn't keep up or go far. In your situation you have to go quite a way to get to them in the first place, this leaves you open to getting attacked several times by zombies, people, or the pit bulls dumb asses will let out to save themselves (my worse fear). Then once you get there you have to get out of the city. It's just a bad idea to risk your and everyone with you to go and see if their alive. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
ItsMrManCub	14. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 3:58 PM EDT "Before my parents passed last year With them it would have been extremely harder to survive, than it is now being alone. " Sorry about your loss my friend. Your not alone either...that is what we are here for. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
phoenixavengerguy	15. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 3:58 PM EDT "I'm in the process of finalizing my plans to bug out when SHTF. I currently have two people who are going to be in my main group. The plan is to head North far from NYC to either upstate NY or Vermont. However, there is a major snag in the plan. One of my friends wants to take her parents; and her father is paraplegic. He has use of his arms but still requires looking after. This isn't really the problem at all. The REAL problem is that they live in Long Island. There is no way off without either going across the Long Island Sound or going back through NYC. I may luck out and ferries might still run for a while, but I can't count on it. Staying on the island isn't an option either. I would like some advice and to promote discussion for bugging out with disabled people." I guess you could try to procure a boat for yourself. Buy one in peace time or steal one when SHTF. This kind of situation is one that is a crossroads of character; you have to define yourself. Are you the kind of guy who can ignore his pragmatic instincts and adjust the plan to attempt a monumentally good deed? Or are you a pure pragmatist, uncompromising and efficient? Either way is a valid point of view. If his arms still work, he could hold a gun and be a good stationary watch for the camp. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
FrankLeeDeRainged	16. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 4:53 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 13 2011, 4:54 PM EDT "I guess you could try to procure a boat for yourself. Buy one in peace time or steal one when SHTF. This kind of situation is one that is a crossroads of character; you have to define yourself. Are you the kind of guy who can ignore his pragmatic instincts and adjust the plan to attempt a monumentally good deed? Or are you a pure pragmatist, uncompromising and efficient? Either way is a valid point of view. If his arms still work, he could hold a gun and be a good stationary watch for the camp." Agreeing with your sentiment, had a squat with a guy who just sat all day and read newspapers. when he left we realised that having someone who was always there was very very useful. Assuming you know how to work one boats are absurdly easy to steal (just not easy to keep for long, dispose of profitably etc.) and I know some lads who hijacked a North Sea ferry which was a substantial ship. Though they were heavily armed Hells Angels and quite well organised (for Angels) it proves it's possible. If I was in NYC I'd learn how to handle a boat, that would put you ahead of, what, 90% if the rest of the population. Then taking disabled becomes, if not easy, doable. _ Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Zombie_bob	17. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 13 2011, 7:53 PM EDT "Start building a viking ship and when the time comes grab him, recruit some minions and then take to the seas collecting supplies from port to port and you Pilage and plunder! WINNING!" do it.... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
White76Knight	18. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 14 2011, 7:58 AM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 14 2011, 8:02 AM EDT I have two family members in wheelchairs, so I've done a little research. People often make a big deal about how people with disabilities will slow you down or limit your mobility, but this doesn't need to be the case. If your friends father has the use of his arms, then there's no reason why he couldn't operate a motorized wheel chair, in fact it would be no surprise if he has one already. Now a good motorized chair can reduce the problem of mobility substantially. Most powered chairs these days can move every bit as fast as the average person can run, and some are even designed to go off-road: http://www.bestgadgetgifts.com/tank-chair/ http://www.planetmobility.com/store/wheelchairs/power/vestil/index.html Watch the movie "Silver Bullet" to get some great ideas for powered chairs. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090021/ All you'd have to do would be to include at least one wheel chair accessible vehicle in your group, which again if already uses a chair he may already have one of these, and you should be good to go. Many cities operate wheelchair accessible shuttle buses, so if he doesn't have one you could always steal one of these after the SHTF. Now most powered chairs are electric, so keeping it charged After the Fall would be another challenge. I see two solutions, A) get a non electric chair, some are gas operated, or B) get a portable charger that plugs in to a vehicles cigarette lighter. You could also have him use a non-powered chair most of the time, to save on fuel or batteries, but have something like this: http://www.angelfire.com/pa5/mahwebsitetest/ available for when he needs greater speed and off-road capability, the manual chair just drives right up the ramp in the back. This one even comes with a trailer so that you can tow it behind a vehicle when not in use. Hope this helps. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
phoenixavengerguy	19. RE: Bugging out with a disabled person Jun 14 2011, 8:00 AM EDT "I have two family members in wheelchairs, so I've done a little research. People often make a big deal about how people with disabilities will slow you down or limit your mobility, but this doesn't need to be the case. If your friends father has the use of his arms, then there's no reason why he couldn't operate a motorized wheel chair, in fact it would be no surprise if he has one already. Now a good motorized chair can reduce the problem of mobility substantially. Most powered chairs these days can move every bit as fast as the average person can run, and some are even designed to go off-road: http://www.bestgadgetgifts.com/tank-chair/ http://www.planetmobility.com/store/wheelchairs/power/vestil/index.html All you'd have to do would be to include at least one wheel chair accessible vehicle in your group, which again if already uses a chair he may already have one of these, and you should be good to go. Many cities operate wheelchair accessible shuttle buses, so if he doesn't have one you could always steal one of these after the SHTF. Now most powered chairs are electric, so keeping it charged After the Fall would be another challenge. I see two solutions, A) get a non electric chair, some are gas operated, or B) get a portable charger that plugs in to a vehicles cigarette lighter. You could also have him use a non-powered chair most of the time, to save on fuel or batteries, but have something like this: http://www.angelfire.com/pa5/mahwebsitetest/ available for when he needs greater speed and off-road capability, the manual chair just drives right up the ramp in the back. This one even comes with a trailer so that you can tow it behind a vehicle when not in use. Hope this helps." Good stuff, a unique perspective. Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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Discussion: Bugging out with a disabled person

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