Location: Fortifying The Castle

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White76Knight
White76Knight
Fortifying The Castle
Jul 3 2011, 6:46 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 3 2011, 6:46 PM EDT
As it is written, so let it be done...

Okay boys and girls, as I mentioned on the thread concerning my survival plan, "another page will be forthcoming concerning the physical construction of my compound, and the defensive features thereof" that would answer any questions about how I would protect it all if I was attacked. That page ended up being two pages, but they are finally done. The first should be linked at the top of this thread but, for the sake of convenience, it can be found here:
http://www.zombiesurvivalwiki.com/page/Fortifying+The+Castle

and the second page is here:
http://www.zombiesurvivalwiki.com/page/The+Curtain+Wall

So again... What do you think? Any questions or concerns? Now's the time.
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Keyword tags: BOL fence fences fortress wall walls
PedroAsani
PedroAsani
1. RE: Fortifying The Castle
Jul 3 2011, 8:56 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 3 2011, 8:57 PM EDT
Quantify.

For example, the bunker "must withstand violent earth movement from severe earthquakes; high velocity wind from tornadoes and hurricanes; invasion by raiders or Zeds; heavy overpressure from nuclear blast; all types of radiation; wild fires and air contamination from any fallout and/or chemical-biological gasses in case the Zombie causing virus should prove to be airborne."

You can't have something able to withstand all earthquakes. An 11.6 would liquify mountains. An SS5 hurricane or EF5 tornado would level almost any building. The pressure wave from a 100 megaton nuclear blast a quarter of a mile away would push through a structure like a finger through wet tissue paper.

You need to quantify what you expect in order to properly rate the defensive structure. Panic rooms don't last forever. They are rated to last for a set amount of time against certain tools. That is what you need to do. Rate it for an EF3 tornado or an SS4 hurricane with minimal damage (there are indicators for what counts as minimal). And don't simply say "will last against Raiders." You need an escape route. What if the Raiders decide to simply wait you out, even if it takes a month or two? Have an escape route and a contingency plan.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
2. RE: Fortifying The Castle
Jul 3 2011, 9:00 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 3 2011, 9:00 PM EDT
Also, more diagrams of the entire structure. You have close-ups of various parts, and rough outlines of things, but I would love to see a scale diagram, particularly an aerial shot (either three-quarter or overhead) to give a proper sense of the size you are looking at. Do you find this valuable?    
White76Knight
White76Knight
3. RE: Fortifying The Castle
Jul 3 2011, 11:38 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 3 2011, 11:45 PM EDT
"Quantify.

For example, the bunker "must withstand violent earth movement from severe earthquakes; high velocity wind from tornadoes and hurricanes; invasion by raiders or Zeds; heavy overpressure from nuclear blast; all types of radiation; wild fires and air contamination from any fallout and/or chemical-biological gasses in case the Zombie causing virus should prove to be airborne.""
First of all, the structure need not be rated to withstand these things, only the Bunker underneath the structure. Secondly, to be honest, that quote was lifted, with only the addition of the part about zombies, almost word for word from the site linked below.

When looked at realistically, this province does not get either tornadoes or earthquakes, there are few if any targets in the entire province (much less the wilderness areas where this fortress would be built) that would be worth a nuclear strike, and given that the bunker is underground it would be all but impervious to hurricanes. Again, the structure above it might be flattened, but the bunker itself would be fine, doubly so since I don't think anything greater than a class one hurricane has ever made landfall in this province.

In any case, the forces that this Bunker are expected to withstand can be found throughout this site:
http://utahsheltersystems.com/index.php

There is, in fact, an escape route out of the bunker, though. It was briefly described on the page.
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White76Knight
White76Knight
4. RE: Fortifying The Castle
Jul 3 2011, 11:43 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 3 2011, 11:43 PM EDT
"Also, more diagrams of the entire structure. You have close-ups of various parts, and rough outlines of things, but I would love to see a scale diagram, particularly an aerial shot (either three-quarter or overhead) to give a proper sense of the size you are looking at."
Actually there are no close ups of anything. This structure exists, for now, only on this page, and thus there is nothing of which aerial photos could be taken. I could probably mock up some 'artists renderings' at some point but, aside from that, the images on the page are there only to serve as examples of the features described, and were lifted from other sources.
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Abu_Fulan
Abu_Fulan
5. RE: Fortifying The Castle
Jul 4 2011, 12:02 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 4 2011, 12:02 AM EDT
"One important factor to consider when designing our future home is: What are we likely to be fighting? Most likely, we will be pitted against groups (from ones and twos up to dozens or hundreds at once) of infected, and also occasional packs of raiders. All of our defenses, therefore, must be designed to combat aggressive human attackers..."
@ White76Knight -- I pulled the quote from your page entitled "Fortifying the Castle." I should say up front that I didn't read everything, but I did read enough to see that you have obviously put a lot of thought and effort into your plans. From what I saw you have a good idea of the structure you want and how to create it, and the concept seems sound to me.

My only concern stems from something I noticed when I looked at your profile: you own not a single firearm. With the right weapons I could transform even a sh!tty ground level apartment into a really difficult place for bad guys to penetrate. But with the tables turned, how well would you and your family fare in a fortress with high walls but no teeth? That would make it really hard for you to even pick off zeds, much less "aggressive human attackers."

I understand that you have children. But surely there is some way you could purchase a good long gun now and simply keep it locked up or disassembled until needed. Ammo separate, trigger lock... lots of options.

Again, you have a good plan for the facility. Personally I just feel that real world home defense begins with a dependable firearm. If you have bought one recently then I apologize for preaching.
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FrankLeeDeRainged
FrankLeeDeRainged
6. RE: Fortifying The Castle
Jul 4 2011, 4:35 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 4 2011, 4:35 AM EDT
Are you familiar with these folks?

http://www.tinyhousedesign.com/

Their focus is on minimalist sustainable cabins but they cover a great many 'modern' techniques like rammed earth, Earthbag domes and all sorts of stuff. This is one of their links;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZjAzrus5B0

On the subject of one of sepp holzer's fast construction methods.
_
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White76Knight
White76Knight
7. RE: Fortifying The Castle
Jul 4 2011, 8:22 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 4 2011, 8:22 AM EDT
"@ White76Knight -- My only concern stems from something I noticed when I looked at your profile: you own not a single firearm. With the right weapons I could transform even a sh!tty ground level apartment into a really difficult place for bad guys to penetrate. But with the tables turned, how well would you and your family fare in a fortress with high walls but no teeth? That would make it really hard for you to even pick off zeds, much less "aggressive human attackers." "
Oh believe me, Abu, you are far from preaching, as this detail bothers me just as much as it does you. I am fortunate that I live in an area where the type of home defense that would require a firearm is virtually non-existent, but even so, this is something that I am hoping to remedy in the very near future.

In truth, however, the fact that I have children is not what stops me from owning firearms, at least indirectly, as I have long believed that properly trained and properly educated children are just as safe in a house WITH a firearm as they are without. My greatest obstacle, rather, has simply been finances. Good firearms don't come cheap, and even during those times when I had the money available, with a family of five (soon to be six), there was always something more urgent to spend it on.

Now with all that said, I cannot state with certainty, though I am remaining cautiously optimistic, but I am hopeful that there is to be a dramatic upswing in my income over the next month or two. As it happens, I have several perspective employment opportunities in my sights, either of which would double if not triple my current annual income. Should any one of these opportunities pan out, there will be firearms in my home within a few short weeks of receiving my first pay cheque.
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White76Knight
White76Knight
8. RE: Fortifying The Castle
Jul 4 2011, 8:54 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 4 2011, 8:54 AM EDT
"Are you familiar with these folks?

http://www.tinyhousedesign.com/

Their focus is on minimalist sustainable cabins but they cover a great many 'modern' techniques like rammed earth, Earthbag domes and all sorts of stuff. This is one of their links;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZjAzrus5B0

On the subject of one of sepp holzer's fast construction methods.
_"
I just checked out this site, and it looks good. I saw a few thing on Earth Bag construction, but I didn't see anything on Rammed Earth techniques. Did I miss it somewhere?
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White76Knight
White76Knight
9. RE: Fortifying The Castle
Jul 5 2011, 9:50 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 5 2011, 9:51 AM EDT
"But with the tables turned, how well would you and your family fare in a fortress with high walls but no teeth? That would make it really hard for you to even pick off zeds, much less "aggressive human attackers." "
An addition note in this regard.

You are again quite correct in that a "fortress with high walls but no teeth" might indeed be difficult to defend, but this Fortified BOL presupposes that I, along with those in my group, would each have access to firearms such as those seen on my Survival Gear page, here:
http://www.zombiesurvivalwiki.com/page/White76Knight%27s+Survival+Gear
Along with as many others as we might be able to acquire between now and whenever the SHTF.

Aside from the personal firearms, I will be making updates to the page over the next day or two that will describe some other weapon types that will hopefully be made available to those defending The Castle as well.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
10. RE: Fortifying The Castle
Jul 5 2011, 11:06 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 5 2011, 11:06 AM EDT
"First of all, the structure need not be rated to withstand these things, only the Bunker underneath the structure. Secondly, to be honest, that quote was lifted, with only the addition of the part about zombies, almost word for word from the site linked below.

When looked at realistically, this province does not get either tornadoes or earthquakes, there are few if any targets in the entire province (much less the wilderness areas where this fortress would be built) that would be worth a nuclear strike, and given that the bunker is underground it would be all but impervious to hurricanes. Again, the structure above it might be flattened, but the bunker itself would be fine, doubly so since I don't think anything greater than a class one hurricane has ever made landfall in this province.

In any case, the forces that this Bunker are expected to withstand can be found throughout this site:
http://utahsheltersystems.com/index.php

There is, in fact, an escape route out of the bunker, though. It was briefly described on the page. "
Not saying you need the ratings for hurricanes and tornadoes specifically, but you need to quantify certain things.

Size of the bunker walls would be a good one. Space inside would be another. How are you recirculating the air?

As for close-ups, a Sketchup build would allow plenty of shots.
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White76Knight
White76Knight
11. RE: Fortifying The Castle
Jul 5 2011, 12:54 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 5 2011, 12:54 PM EDT
"Not saying you need the ratings for hurricanes and tornadoes specifically, but you need to quantify certain things.

Size of the bunker walls would be a good one. Space inside would be another. How are you recirculating the air?

As for close-ups, a Sketchup build would allow plenty of shots."
The size of the walls and the space inside would be scalable up or down, depending on how many people I expected to have in my survivor group, so there are no hard and fast numbers to provide here. The site I linked in my previous post provides the details about air circulation, though I suppose I could add a line or two to that effect to the Castle page as well.

As for sketchup, I only downloaded it for the first time the day before yesterday, and I haven't quite figured out hot to get it to do what i want it to do as yet. I can add a few more diagrams once I've gotten over the learning curve.
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