"It's not SO much smaller than any 2DR JK can't run with it, and the decrease in power and gearing really hurt it in anything requiring more OOMPH, because it just doesn't have it. What was it at first, 60HP? Three whole gears? The carb would shoot itself in the face if you even LOOKED at a overly steep hill the wrong way. You had to tweak everything any time you changed the environment. The relatively short tires limit clearances, and the leaf springs on ALL FOUR tires limit flex. The actual original transmission was not as strong as the one introduced in the CJ-2, and they did that for a reason (selling to farmers, and the original one would BREAK when used as a farm implement)

On the other hand, the JK has a larger wheelbase to create better approach, breakover, and other various angles, has larger tires stock and can support up to 33" tires on stock suspension. The JK (07-11) has 215HP, and the 12's have 285HP. They have springs and shocks on all four wheels which maximizes stock flex. Being fuel injected and computer controlled, they will automatically maintain the best fuel/air mixture for wherever you are driving, at damn near every angle but upside down. At which point you have bigger problems. The 07-11s have a 4-speed auto that overheats or a standard 6-speed, and the 12's have a 5-speed auto that is pretty damned epic.

Even with a full-on EMP, chances are your modern vehicle won't even stop ;) And if it does, 99% of the time you just gotta turn the key to start it again.

I'm not even thinking about the Unlimited (4DR) models, because they have all kinds of pros and cons of their own."

"
But my next GM product will be a surplus Hummer. Drove a civilian model and hated the changes."

"I must admit that, not being much of a car guy myself, most of what you just said was lost on me, but this bit jumped out.

Given that most modern vehicles have digital this, and computer controlled that, and electronic something else, how could the NOT be affected by an EMP? That seems rather counter intuitive to me. I'm not asking to be a jackass or anything, but as I said, cars and engines and the like aren't subjects that I know much about and I'd honestly like to know the answer."

"It would be a downright awesome thing to see, though, wouldn't it?"

"I must admit that, not being much of a car guy myself, most of what you just said was lost on me, but this bit jumped out.

Given that most modern vehicles have digital this, and computer controlled that, and electronic something else, how could the NOT be affected by an EMP? That seems rather counter intuitive to me. I'm not asking to be a jackass or anything, but as I said, cars and engines and the like aren't subjects that I know much about and I'd honestly like to know the answer."

"A Jeep Freak lmao Always one in every crowd..."

"They odn't use jeeps because they needed larger, armored vehicles, and they needed JP8/Diesel instead of gasoline, seeing as EVERYTHING they use runs on it. A gasoline V-6 will have a problem hauling a ******** of armor. Even the MRAPs, with a massive Cummins in them, don't exactly go anywhere very fast.

And a willys won't fit anywhere only a dirtbike can go. Your point? A JK has better angles, more capable tires and suspension FROM THE FACTORY, more capacity, and more power. It's better on fuel and can actually drive on the roads just as well as it can drive in the dirt. Every model of WRANGLER, period, is worlds more capable than any CJ-series, or pre-CJ. They increased the capability of the vehicle every single model, because they're not ******* idiots.

I can push start my JK. IT'S A ******* MANUAL. As I stated, they STILL offer the 6-speed on every model today. It was standard on the 07-11 models, with the auto as an OPTION.

In the working lifetime of a vehicle, the electronic parts required for the vehicle to run fail at a rate less than your carb will need recalibration for changes in altitude. And can't fail due to engine angle.

And I can actually FIND parts for a new vehicle. And very commonly. Considering the wide variety of people who produce OEM and aftermarket parts and accessories for 07+ wranglers, compared to the number who make those parts for pre-CJ models, it's an entire ecosystem compared to very few manufacturers."

"you cant carry 4 people and all there gear on a bike :-)
"