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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
Anger and Resentment
Aug 9 2011, 2:05 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 9 2011, 2:05 PM EDT
This got brought up on a discussion with Crittergetter, so I want to get a feeling from the rest of the members.

In a group that has a doctor, do you think that other group members would resent the doctor if he was given different duties to minimise the possiblity of injury and sleep deprivation?
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Sharkai
Sharkai
1. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 9 2011, 2:22 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 9 2011, 2:22 PM EDT
I don't think they would. I mean if you were shot, or otherwise injured, you'd want the man (or woman) who's trying to save your life to be at maximum concentration. I doubt the doctor would be at his greatest ability if he's spent the day fighting zeds, etc. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
SasquatchJim
SasquatchJim
2. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 9 2011, 2:25 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 9 2011, 2:25 PM EDT
I don't believe they would. Like shark said, having people use their skills and potential seems to be one of the most important parts of survival. E.G. I also wouldn't get mad at, say, a teacher for taking care of kids instead of pulling guard duty. Do you find this valuable?    
toxic_shock
toxic_shock
3. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 9 2011, 2:30 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 9 2011, 2:30 PM EDT
In any other war, military doctors don't go to the front lines. They stay behind and treat the wounded. Even when they are not busy they don't pick up a rifle and jump into battle. Z-day should be no different. I believe it would be a non-issue. Do you find this valuable?    
Carnack
Carnack
4. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 9 2011, 2:30 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 9 2011, 2:32 PM EDT
Depends on the tasks he's assigned. So long as he's actually working like the rest of us then I see no issues.

They would need other jobs so that they aren't just sitting around all day (which would piss folks off) but it's a small price to pay for a legit doctor.
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VagabondVance
VagabondVance
5. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 9 2011, 2:34 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 9 2011, 2:36 PM EDT
Hell no. Now if there is a unskilled laborer who wants to slack off because he didn't get a higher education and learn something more useful than stacking grain he is out of luck. Do you find this valuable?    
barret_zombie_bane
barret_zombie_bane
6. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 9 2011, 2:37 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 9 2011, 2:37 PM EDT
i personally would not, as long as i am told why exactly he get's this treatment.
and i am hoping that others will think as logically although this may not be the situation in which case the person(s) will be told to either accept it or leave.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
7. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 9 2011, 2:44 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 9 2011, 2:44 PM EDT
"Depends on the tasks he's assigned. So long as he's actually working like the rest of us then I see no issues.

They would need other jobs so that they aren't just sitting around all day (which would piss folks off) but it's a small price to pay for a legit doctor."
Well I ruled out farming because of injuries. Anything with heavy lifting because you don't want a doctor to throw out their back.

Guard duty I am torn on. On the one hand, it's not heavy lifting work. On the other, anyone who has watched Arnie take a compound will tell you the guards in the tower are first to go.

Kitchen work? Again, I don't know. Sharp knives and fire, but probably more of an acceptable risk.

I figured running the radio, tending the herb garden and light cleaning would be safe. Washing out mason jars for pickling and preserving, etc.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
8. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 9 2011, 2:47 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 9 2011, 2:47 PM EDT
"i personally would not, as long as i am told why exactly he get's this treatment.
and i am hoping that others will think as logically although this may not be the situation in which case the person(s) will be told to either accept it or leave."
Again, to minimise the risk of injury. Also, no night shifts if possible to minimise sleep deprivation. You don't want a doctor operating for ten hours after being up for a full day beforehand.
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Carnack
Carnack
9. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 9 2011, 2:54 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 9 2011, 2:54 PM EDT
"Well I ruled out farming because of injuries. Anything with heavy lifting because you don't want a doctor to throw out their back.

Guard duty I am torn on. On the one hand, it's not heavy lifting work. On the other, anyone who has watched Arnie take a compound will tell you the guards in the tower are first to go.

Kitchen work? Again, I don't know. Sharp knives and fire, but probably more of an acceptable risk.

I figured running the radio, tending the herb garden and light cleaning would be safe. Washing out mason jars for pickling and preserving, etc."
I'd say guard duty is a no go. Boredom can sometimes my someone tired and yes those guards do tend to eat lead first.

Kitchen work I'd say would work. Depending on his training the doc would know how to operate blades safely.

Fatigue might be an issue. I worked in a diner as a fry cook and that **** hurt after a few weeks.

The other stuff listed would also be sufficient to keep him safe but still useful.

Edit: Gender don't matter. I'm just saying him for ther sake convienience,
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OutlawJames
OutlawJames
10. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 9 2011, 3:08 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 9 2011, 3:08 PM EDT
I think in any group there will always be someone who resents something about another.
In the case of the Doctor, explaining your feelings, as the leader, and why, as the leader, you are putting the Dr. on safe duty, would be just another one of the many issues you will have , as a leader.

I think most people will be okay with the Dr.s light duty once they are brought to understand, If the Dr. buys it, "Who's gonna fix yer Booboo's"
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Abu_Fulan
Abu_Fulan
11. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 9 2011, 3:48 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 9 2011, 3:48 PM EDT
You know, doctors aren't just guys who can set a broken limb or diagnose a cold. If a post-apocalyptic group's got it together then their doc taking a guard shift or burning the sh!tter wouldn't even be discussed.

In addition to "fixing booboos" the doctor should advise the leader on things like field hygiene, layout of sleeping quarters, and preparation of potable water. The doc should train the rest of the group regularly on basic lifesaving skills. He should examine every member at regular intervals. He should examine every outsider who visits the camp. He should also advise the leader of medical necessities as he uses up expendable medical equipment, so that scavenging parties know what to look for. He should advise the leader on dietary necessities so hunting parties know what game to target and what vegetables members should grow.

The doc can probably speak, read, and wrtie a second or even a third language. This makes him valuable for translating documents of intelligence value.

If all this isn't enough to keep him busy, the doc can revisit his undergrad days. He could write lesson plans geared toward the group's members and then teach university type courses -- everything from English composition to medieval European history, higher mathematics, philosophy 101... You name it.

In response to the OP, yeah, if a doctor is sitting on his a$$ all day and not contributing, people will resent it. But if the doc is doing the things I mentioned (and more) I would think his contribution to the common good would be pretty plain to everyone.
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John_234
John_234
12. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 10 2011, 3:08 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 10 2011, 3:08 AM EDT
I think of it like this. When stuff hits the crapper and everything goes to sh!t, nobody really cares who did what unless your job involved a weapon and everybody is too tired to pull their weight but feels obligated to tell everyone else that's their responsibility.

Then as stuff gets more organized / serious specialized roles like locksmiths, truckers and doctors become more of an issue. Until something happens where someone is hurt and suddenly at the mercy of a medical professional, I don't think most people would like putting up with the fact that "Mr. PhD gets to skip guard duty" for the most part.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
13. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 10 2011, 7:07 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 10 2011, 7:07 AM EDT
"I think of it like this. When stuff hits the crapper and everything goes to sh!t, nobody really cares who did what unless your job involved a weapon and everybody is too tired to pull their weight but feels obligated to tell everyone else that's their responsibility.

Then as stuff gets more organized / serious specialized roles like locksmiths, truckers and doctors become more of an issue. Until something happens where someone is hurt and suddenly at the mercy of a medical professional, I don't think most people would like putting up with the fact that "Mr. PhD gets to skip guard duty" for the most part."
But he isn't "skipping" it. The point is that the doctor wil do *other* jobs, just not the ones that risk injury, since it's hard for a doctor to operate on themselves.
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SGTGerman
SGTGerman
14. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 10 2011, 7:17 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 10 2011, 7:17 AM EDT
"But he isn't "skipping" it. The point is that the doctor wil do *other* jobs, just not the ones that risk injury, since it's hard for a doctor to operate on themselves."
It depends how many doctors there are and how many casaulties you have. In Afghan all support trades from chefs to clerks have to man the sangers, I guess the helps the combat units who need to come back and rest.

So, if there are no high risk casaulties you should do your time on guard, otherwise you njeed to stay with your patients. Nobody likes stag, no one.
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crittergetter
crittergetter
15. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 10 2011, 11:37 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 10 2011, 11:42 AM EDT
My point is to head off that soar a** before it becomes an issue. I think that nomatter who it is they should learn to shoot and defend themselves with everyone else. Plus he doesnt have to pull a plow or lift them boulders for the walls. But he should do some common work and get dirty/sweaty with everyone else.
People are fickle. After spending almost all harvest season with body aches and bruises some yahoo will start resenting Doc not getting dirty also. More than likely every available person will be doing the harvest and there is MR Special..Doc not even doing the bloody dishes or laundry. I can see/hear it and have in many jobs. Heck Ive seen guys get mad if someone is on light duty (for injuries) to long by their book.
You cant stop it all but if you can head off one before it goes stupid, do it.
I wouldnt risk him on patrols or as a primary shooter either.
He is a real valuble resource you might not be able to replace.
But no need letting a yahoo cave his head in during a rage over nothing.
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John_234
John_234
16. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 10 2011, 12:18 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 10 2011, 12:18 PM EDT
"But he isn't "skipping" it. The point is that the doctor wil do *other* jobs, just not the ones that risk injury, since it's hard for a doctor to operate on themselves."
For someone sitting up through the wee hours, taking away from their sleep or doing menial kitchen duties, he might as well be skipping it, true? I don't mean if it's justified or not, just thinking of the psychology of people right after a huge disaster.
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crittergetter
crittergetter
17. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 10 2011, 12:47 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 10 2011, 12:47 PM EDT
Ok Im wrong all people arent petty or jeleous even at not the best of times. And this isnt just right after SHTF. This for as long as they survive including 10-20yrs afterwards. People are people but hey Ive been wrong on things and can again. Do you find this valuable?    
Carnack
Carnack
18. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 10 2011, 12:53 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 10 2011, 12:55 PM EDT
"I think of it like this. When stuff hits the crapper and everything goes to sh!t, nobody really cares who did what unless your job involved a weapon and everybody is too tired to pull their weight but feels obligated to tell everyone else that's their responsibility.

Then as stuff gets more organized / serious specialized roles like locksmiths, truckers and doctors become more of an issue. Until something happens where someone is hurt and suddenly at the mercy of a medical professional, I don't think most people would like putting up with the fact that "Mr. PhD gets to skip guard duty" for the most part."
Well they'd better care. Doctors in a situation where they are uncommon are worth gold.

As for "skipping" it's all about lowering the risk for an individual that can lower *your* risks in day to day life.

Not everyone will be suited to guard duty (as well as other tasks) and putting someone ill-suited to a situation into such a situation will not benefit anyone. Least of all the group.

The doc will be on reserve 24/7. This means that he cannot be sleep deprived if it can be helped. So you give him other tasks that are no less needed but are less risky because he can keep you and yours alive.
So keeping him safe and alert will benefit you more than another body on guard duty.
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AndyL89
AndyL89
19. RE: Anger and Resentment
Aug 10 2011, 12:59 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 10 2011, 12:59 PM EDT
I'd have them tending to the supplies as well as stag duty, but not as often as the others. Personally think that no matter what one of his main focuses (apart from medical care) should be to train all the others in basic field medicine 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
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