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Discussion: Guns. Don't use them XDReported This is a featured thread

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Contemplate
Contemplate
Guns: Luxury or Nessesity?
Aug 20 2011, 12:52 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 21 2011, 6:39 PM EDT
In my opinion, developping any form of reliance on firearms is a very bad habit to develop for anyone planning to survive long term in a zombie apocalypse. Regardless of how much ammo you have in store, it won't be long until you run out, and are reduced to either spending most of your time looking for more or using melee. The only acceptable setting to use firearms in my opinion is during the transitional period right after the outbreak, which will be nessesary for you to adapt. Keep in mind bullets are no longer being produced. Each shot you fire is one less in the very finite amound of ammo left. 6  out of 16 found this valuable. Do you?    
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Sharpie41
Sharpie41
1. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 12:54 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 12:54 AM EDT
"In my opinion, developping any form of reliance on firearms is a very bad habit to develop for anyone planning to survive long term in a zombie apocalypse. Regardless of how much ammo you have in store, it won't be long until you run out, and are reduced to either spending most of your time looking for more or using melee. The only acceptable setting to use firearms in my opinion is during the transitional period right after the outbreak, which will be nessesary for you to adapt. Keep in mind bullets are no longer being produced. Each shot you fire is one less in the very finite amound of ammo left."
We know that..........

I would rather go with a gun at first and then use a crossbow or something else, than rely on melee to begin with
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Carnack
Carnack
2. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 12:57 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 12:57 AM EDT
"Regardless of how much ammo you have in store, it won't be long until you run out"

Explain the logic here.

I'll agree that ammo is finite regardless of how you look at it.

However depending on your situation and storage means as well as your skill and ability to reload ammo it will be a very long time before you need to rely on hand to hand.

Even then folks would use bows first.

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randomknife666
randomknife666
3. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 1:01 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 1:03 AM EDT
Not exactly an original idea there buddy...

The idea is to conserve your ammunition. Replenish when possible, and if you know how and have the tools on hand, reload your brass.

Also, by the time I ran out of ammo in our current stockpile, the entire town around me, and all the towns within a 45 minute drive would be cleared... and thats assuming that only one in 4 shots was a killshot... Not that I intend to use it for that purpose... Maybe clear my town early on to avoid some complications later (300 zedskies at the door doesn't sound to appealing...) and save the rest for later emergencies and hunting...

Amazing, every time someone brings up a "ammo will run out eventually" thread, I instantly start thinking about how my ammo would be applied...

Also, I would much rather rely on archery than melee.
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randomknife666
randomknife666
4. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 1:04 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 1:04 AM EDT
Suddenly, I'm thinking archery tactics for unexperienced groups... Threadworthy or not? Do you find this valuable?    
Carnack
Carnack
5. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 1:06 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 1:10 AM EDT
The logic that ammo will run out without means of producing the chemical element is ironclad.

However the argument HINGES on it (the ammo) being used.

So yes if you use ammo/store it badly it will run out eventually.

But at least you get use out of it as it does.

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Sharpie41
Sharpie41
6. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 1:07 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 1:07 AM EDT
"Suddenly, I'm thinking archery tactics for unexperienced groups... Threadworthy or not?"
I think so, I would like to get a recurve soon, I kinda like archery
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oldannyboy37
oldannyboy37
7. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 3:11 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 3:11 AM EDT
If you've prepped ahead of time and stock piled ammo you should have a good bit laying around. I don't have the best stockpile but even with what I have now it would take me quite a while to run out.
If someone reloads and buys ammo in bulk the stated problem is even less severe. If you're not picking fights and playing Rambo a decent stock of ammo should go a long way. Another problem is that you're assuming most of us are going to be relying on our guns for killing stuff on a daily basis, most of us have isolated plans that don't involve firing a single shot in defense.
Finally you're suggesting that we not use the best tools available for the job simply because you could run out of ammo eventually, I don't see the point in that logic.
No offense, but we get way to many of these threads.
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John_234
John_234
8. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 3:25 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 3:25 AM EDT
If you go out the door, throw on your pack and start immediately thinking how long your four hundred rounds is going to last, you're probably going completely wrong. You *should* be thinking about avoiding as many fights as you can, since any one of them can kill you, how to avoid having to use your guns, blades, whatever weapons.

You don't carry a gun because you want to shoot people. Or so, I hope.

Guns run out of ammo, ammo to reload guns runs dry, components to reload that ammo goes bad or runs out. So what? We can deal with the consequences then. Until that point, I will use a firearm because it is the most efficient weapon that humans have developed to fight animals and other humans. Unlike a bow or a club, I only need five pounds of my index finger squeezing this tiny little lever to send three-thousand joules from a rifle into my target.

I'm not saying the rifle won't jam, or that I will hit every time. But I know for damned sure that it gives me the best chance of any weapon.
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Filadog
Filadog
9. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 5:12 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 5:12 AM EDT
"In my opinion, developping any form of reliance on firearms is a very bad habit to develop for anyone planning to survive long term in a zombie apocalypse. Regardless of how much ammo you have in store, it won't be long until you run out, ."
So instead of relying on guns what do you suggest we rely on?

I don't know exactly how much ammo I have but I figure easly around 10,000 rounds in different calibers
With some ammo like .22 is very easy and cheap to stockplie, I bought most of mine when I was paying around $13 per 500 even now not that much more so really no reason you should have at least a couple 1000 22s

Now do you really think you are going to better survive all the situation where you have used up even these couple 1000s shots by using other weapons? Are you going survive these multiple cases better by using a bow, sword, spear or what ever? Of course not.

I personaly don't think a gun person will be shooting as much as many here seem to think they will be...it's not going to be like the military where 100['s of shots are expended.
Instead just having the threat of a gun will probably be enough to prevent most trouble with people.

I think other things such as a bow or traps should be there to supliment your firearms but to say you shouldn't rely on a gun is just kind of goofy
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timberrattler
timberrattler
10. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 5:42 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 5:42 AM EDT
"
Instead just having the threat of a gun will probably be enough to prevent most trouble with people.

I think other things such as a bow or traps should be there to supliment your firearms but to say you shouldn't rely on a gun is just kind of goofy "
This^
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John_234
John_234
11. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 4:09 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 4:09 PM EDT
" So instead of relying on guns what do you suggest we rely on?

I don't know exactly how much ammo I have but I figure easly around 10,000 rounds in different calibers
With some ammo like .22 is very easy and cheap to stockplie, I bought most of mine when I was paying around $13 per 500 even now not that much more so really no reason you should have at least a couple 1000 22s

Now do you really think you are going to better survive all the situation where you have used up even these couple 1000s shots by using other weapons? Are you going survive these multiple cases better by using a bow, sword, spear or what ever? Of course not.

I personaly don't think a gun person will be shooting as much as many here seem to think they will be...it's not going to be like the military where 100['s of shots are expended.
Instead just having the threat of a gun will probably be enough to prevent most trouble with people.

I think other things such as a bow or traps should be there to supliment your firearms but to say you shouldn't rely on a gun is just kind of goofy "
Hey, if I shoot enough rounds in enough fights to start worrying about running out of ammo, I count myself mildly lucky.
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LJ126
LJ126
12. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 4:29 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 4:30 PM EDT
"@OP"
Everything said here is actually correct, despite being against common consensus.

People shouldn't rely *solely* on firearms. It would be wise to consider alternatives for a worst-case scenario sort of situation. If you've got 90% of your stockpiled ammo and weapons in your home and it catches fire and burns to the ground (loudly, I might add) you'll really be wishing you had learned how to make and use a bow and arrows for it, or how to use an Atl-Atl. It's kinda like getting knocked down by a zombie in a hallway with a box in your hands - it's a bad time to learn how to grapple effectively.

This firearm problem is easily worked around - stockpile LOTS, and stockpile it in several locations. This is where a cheapo Mosin-Nagant or Mauser comes in handy - wrap it up in a trashbag or two and bury it in a known location with a 440 round can of ammo and a surplus .30 cal cleaning kit. This is called a "backup plan."

And yes, ammo is a finite resource for most of us. Unless you've got LOTS of ammo, which most people don't, you're living on borrowed time if you don't know how to use other tools to defend yourself or obtain food.

That's not to say people shouldn't use guns. That's ridiculous, nonsensical and the title of this thread is meant simply to inflame the gun-loving members here.
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timberrattler
timberrattler
13. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 4:35 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 4:35 PM EDT
"....and the title of this thread is meant simply to inflame the gun-loving members here."
Agreed.
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LJ126
LJ126
14. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 4:37 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 4:37 PM EDT
Cont...

In my opinion, the first backup weapon people should consider developing is their own body. If you gotta run, you need to be able to do so - conditioning is a priority. If you need to throw them 'bows, you need to know how to do it, and how/when to find/make an opening for your strikes. You also need to know where your kicks will be effective and where your knuckles will cause temporary incapacitation.

Anyone can make a knife or a hammer an effective weapon. It's not brain surgery - or maybe it is. A hammer upside someone's head is a pretty effective way of ending problems. Other weapons require some practice to be effective - bows, spears, slings, spear throwers - these need to be learned and practiced.

Sorry for the long-winded response. Just something I've been thinking about recently.
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timberrattler
timberrattler
15. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 4:55 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 4:56 PM EDT
A hammer is a common weapon for biker gangs. People might look at you funny if you've got a bowie knife on your hip, they might be put off if your packin' a hachet but nobody notices the dude dressed in blue collar duds with a hammer hanging from his hip. They figure he's just a carpenter.

I always have a BFH in my truck.
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LJ126
LJ126
16. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 5:09 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 5:09 PM EDT
"A hammer is a common weapon for biker gangs. People might look at you funny if you've got a bowie knife on your hip, they might be put off if your packin' a hachet but nobody notices the dude dressed in blue collar duds with a hammer hanging from his hip. They figure he's just a carpenter.

I always have a BFH in my truck."
Definitely true. A good buddy of mine keeps a 30 some odd ounce framing hammer up underneath the bench seat of his pickup, just in case. He's a maintenance man by trade, so nobody thinks twice when it's hanging from his belt. There's no doubt in my mind that this hammer would do more damage to someone than a .45 to the head.
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brandon_a_boyer
brandon_a_boyer
17. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 5:39 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 5:39 PM EDT
I love these fire and forget threads. Especially when they are started by people who don't own guns. Do you find this valuable?    
oldannyboy37
oldannyboy37
18. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 6:14 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 6:14 PM EDT
"
That's not to say people shouldn't use guns. That's ridiculous, nonsensical and the title of this thread is meant simply to inflame the gun-loving members here."
Agreed LJ. I think that we should have other options besides just firearms too but I don't think throwing them out the window is a good answer in the least bit.

I've always said that firearms shouldn't make or break a plan. If you do your planning ahead of time you should be looking at how to avoid fights and unnecessary risk whenever possible.

If doesn't matter if you're an uber gun fighter akin to an action move character, if you get into enough fights eventually someone else is going to get lucky and you'll die.
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necropologist
necropologist
19. RE: Guns. Don't use them XD
Aug 20 2011, 10:03 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 10:03 PM EDT
i find that while ammo is finite the right gun can be reliable such as the ak47 yet it is best to carry both. Do you find this valuable?    
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