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Discussion: Medieval ranged weapons

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zhunterd	Medieval ranged weapons Sep 25 2011, 3:23 PM EDT Catapults: Although the catapult has been used since ancient times, it has proven to be one of the most effective mechanisms during warfare. As well as attempting to breach the walls, incendiary missiles could be thrown inside, and early biological warfare attempted with diseased carcasses or putrid garbage catapulted over the walls. Ballista: Ballistas were similar to giant crossbows and were designed to work through torsion. The ammunition used were basically giant arrows or darts made from wood with an iron tip. These arrows were then shot “along a flat trajectory” at a target. Ballistas are notable for their high degree of accuracy, but also their lack of firepower compared to that of a Mangonel or Trebuchet. Springald: The springald's design is similar to that of the Ballista's, in that it was effectively a crossbow propelled by tension. The Springald's frame was more compact, allowing for use inside tighter confines, such as the inside of a castle or tower. This compromised the firepower though, making it an anti-personnel weapon at best. Mangonel: These machines were designed to throw heavy projectiles from a “bowl-shaped bucket at the end of its arm”. Mangonels were mostly used for “firing various missiles at fortresses, castles, and cities,” with a range of up to 1300 feet. These missiles included anything from stones to excrement to rotting carcasses. Mangonels were relatively simple to construct, and eventually wheels were added to increase mobility. Onager: Mangonels are also sometimes referred to as Onagers. Onager catapults initially launched projectiles from a sling, which was later changed to a “bowl-shaped bucket”. Trebuchet: Trebuchets are probably the most powerful catapult. The most commonly used ammunition were stones, but “darts and sharp wooden poles” could be substituted if necessary. The most effective kind of ammunition though involved fire, such as “firebrands, and deadly Greek Fire”. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: Cold Ranged Weapon
Oakspar77777	1. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Sep 25 2011, 7:23 PM EDT A nice list, but to what effect? Of the uses mentioned, garbage disposal sounds the most useful. To be honest, all of these weapons need skill to manufacture (which means trial and error these days). They also require sizeable resources - particularly wood. Finally, you need to be either behind strong fortification or attacking such a fortification. So, if you had the earthmoving equipment to fortify a large area with a DEEP ditch and wall, then you might have the resources to make such a devise and cause to use it. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Zombot	2. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Sep 25 2011, 7:29 PM EDT Good post, and considering the lack of modern day production/fabrication, once one did have a strong hold, this sort of thing would be awesome, especially considering the non-finite nature of...rocks. Splendid idea, really. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Oakspar77777	3. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Sep 25 2011, 7:42 PM EDT I apoligize if this double posts - my first reply appears to have dissapeared. This is a fine and accurate list, but to what effect? The most useful thing mentioned is garbage removal. These machines all require great skill to make (and so will require trial and error to make today). They require a great deal of materials - particularly lumber. They require range to be maintained, either through a solidly defended location or assaulting such a position. So, if you have the earthmovers to create a DEEP ditch with a high wall, and you are surrounded by masses of undead, then you might find some use, if your LONG wall holds enough real estate to spare the lumber. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Zombot	4. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Sep 25 2011, 8:22 PM EDT I almost reposted, also, as it took a hot minute for either of the posts to show up. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
zhunterd	5. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Oct 5 2011, 9:03 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 5 2011, 9:03 AM EDT "These machines all require great skill to make (and so will require trial and error to make today). They require a great deal of materials - particularly lumber. They require range to be maintained, either through a solidly defended location or assaulting such a position." That is why I am already studying how they were made, and examining how to possibly build them from modern materials. (possibly Ballista made from automobile leaf springs, catapult/trebuchet structural members made from laminated 2x4, or vehicle chassis, etc.) Just because Medieval ranged weapons were made from wood, doesn't mean modern ones have to be made from wood. Post Z-poc, there will be plenty of abandoned cars, trucks, etc. to provide raw material for all kinds of weapons. A person just has to be creative. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
brandon_a_boyer	6. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Oct 5 2011, 1:06 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 5 2011, 1:06 PM EDT I have no doubt that you could easily reproduce any of these today. We have improved materials, and processes. **** two garage door springs would be enough to make a small ballista. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
OutlawJames	7. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Oct 5 2011, 1:16 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 5 2011, 1:16 PM EDT Now correct me if I am wrong, but are not most ancient weapons of the catapult /ballista/trebuchet line, in modern terms, very limited range weapons? Seems to me that every educational type show I see that they make one of these things, range is usually less than 200 yards, and not very accurate at that range. Reason I ask is because, unless you are on the same tier, as who you are going up against with these. They will blow you out of the water with say, accurate rifle fire before you get within say 400 yards, A couple hundred short of your range. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
brandon_a_boyer	8. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Oct 5 2011, 1:24 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 5 2011, 1:24 PM EDT "Now correct me if I am wrong, but are not most ancient weapons of the catapult /ballista/trebuchet line, in modern terms, very limited range weapons? Seems to me that every educational type show I see that they make one of these things, range is usually less than 200 yards, and not very accurate at that range. Reason I ask is because, unless you are on the same tier, as who you are going up against with these. They will blow you out of the water with say, accurate rifle fire before you get within say 400 yards, A couple hundred short of your range." 300 yards is about the max, You also have to consider though that you're hurling a 300 lb projectile. So there are possibilities. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Uzzgub	9. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Oct 5 2011, 2:50 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 5 2011, 2:50 PM EDT "Reason I ask is because, unless you are on the same tier, as who you are going up against with these. They will blow you out of the water with say, accurate rifle fire before you get within say 400 yards, A couple hundred short of your range." unless say you live in England where almost all guns are banned, and you have almost no chance of finding them or ammo after the Zpoc has happened now yes these medival weapons have a short range, but if you have them and some one else dont you will be better off, but they are normaily there for defending a fixed point or attacking a fixed point, they will be almost usless in any other forms of combat (unless there thousands of people in both armies) the Ballista will be your best bet fo defending your fort as its the only one on the list that could hit a single person without to much trouble (and thats not a definate kill) Post reply Do you find this valuable?
zhunterd	10. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Oct 5 2011, 5:21 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 5 2011, 5:21 PM EDT "Now correct me if I am wrong, but are not most ancient weapons of the catapult /ballista/trebuchet line, in modern terms, very limited range weapons? Seems to me that every educational type show I see that they make one of these things, range is usually less than 200 yards, and not very accurate at that range. Reason I ask is because, unless you are on the same tier, as who you are going up against with these. They will blow you out of the water with say, accurate rifle fire before you get within say 400 yards, A couple hundred short of your range." The early roman ballista was a highly accurate weapon (there are many accounts of single soldiers being picked off by ballista operators), but some design aspects meant it could compromise its accuracy for range. The maximum range was over 500 yards (460 m), but effective combat range for many targets was far shorter. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
zhunterd	11. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Oct 5 2011, 5:25 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 5 2011, 5:25 PM EDT "Reason I ask is because, unless you are on the same tier, as who you are going up against with these. They will blow you out of the water with say, accurate rifle fire before you get within say 400 yards, A couple hundred short of your range." Range would increase by mounting the device higher than the enemy. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
zhunterd	12. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Oct 5 2011, 5:36 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 5 2011, 5:36 PM EDT "unless say you live in England where almost all guns are banned, and you have almost no chance of finding them or ammo after the Zpoc has happened now yes these medival weapons have a short range, but if you have them and some one else dont you will be better off, but they are normaily there for defending a fixed point or attacking a fixed point, they will be almost usless in any other forms of combat (unless there thousands of people in both armies) the Ballista will be your best bet fo defending your fort as its the only one on the list that could hit a single person without to much trouble (and thats not a definate kill) " At least someone else gets it. When all of the ammo is used up, and the brass can't be reloaded anymore, or the rifle is too worn out to fire anymore, or broken/damaged beyond firing, what will one use then? Maybe it would be better to be building these while one has guns, so they would be in place when the guns do not work anymore. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	13. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Oct 5 2011, 6:16 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 5 2011, 6:16 PM EDT " Maybe it would be better to be building these while one has guns, so they would be in place when the guns do not work anymore." Or use it to multiply your firepower. If you have only a few guns but a lot of folks that can fight this may be a means of arming them. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
zhunterd	14. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Oct 5 2011, 6:32 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 5 2011, 6:32 PM EDT "Or use it to multiply your firepower. If you have only a few guns but a lot of folks that can fight this may be a means of arming them." That is a good idea. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
chitoryu12	15. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Oct 5 2011, 6:49 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 5 2011, 6:49 PM EDT Remember that any man-made fortifications built after the apocalypse may not necessarily have the structural integrity of castle walls; a settlement using whatever they could get their hands on would likely be restricted to relatively low walls made from whatever wood, scrap metal, and bricks could be scavenged. Without the time and manpower to easily and quickly make thick rock walls, imagine the effect of the biggest rock a trebuchet or onager could fire smashing into it. Or how easily you can fire over it. How would you like to be sitting in your little patch of land when suddenly 100 pound rocks begin crashing down randomly around your head? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Uzzgub	16. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Oct 12 2011, 3:20 PM EDT "Remember that any man-made fortifications built after the apocalypse may not necessarily have the structural integrity of castle walls; a settlement using whatever they could get their hands on would likely be restricted to relatively low walls made from whatever wood, scrap metal, and bricks could be scavenged. Without the time and manpower to easily and quickly make thick rock walls, imagine the effect of the biggest rock a trebuchet or onager could fire smashing into it. Or how easily you can fire over it. How would you like to be sitting in your little patch of land when suddenly 100 pound rocks begin crashing down randomly around your head? " very true, i agree with your point about the walls, unless you very lucky to get a proper castle with unbroken walls (not many left but there is a few) but how upset would the raiders be if you then sent there 100 pound rock back to them with a few extra aswell as burning bolts aimed at there catapults (sorry been playing Medieval total war 2, and thats how i deal with catapults/trebuchets in that) Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Uzzgub	17. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Apr 11 2012, 3:10 PM EDT So do's anyone have any blue prints to make any of these, or do you know of any books that would have them in? Also has any one put any thoughts in to what materials you would use to make any of them, car springs for bolt throwers, scaffolding poles as the arms for catapults etc etc Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Zee-Man	18. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Apr 11 2012, 3:29 PM EDT They are not as ancient as you might think. Nor are they hard to make (see the cub scout troop). http://www.punkinchunkin.com/ I have made a trebuchet that had a range of 100ft as an experiment. It hand a 15ft arm and used 200lb counterweight. The arm was made from 2x6s and a sapling I cut for the purpose. The rest of the engine was made from scrap pallets. To get the 500ft range or even the 5000ft range is a matter of scale. Youtube is rife with folks that have made various siege engines in their back yard. Yes, there is some trial and error involved. One is not going to start from imagine, build one in a day, and fire on the enemy in the morning. My experiment took 2 weeks of working in the evening and weekends. That equates to 5 workdays. A full size model could take 3 times longer if working alone and materials were not on hand. If working with timber you are not talking much additional time because you don't have to have sawn lumber. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Uzzgub	19. RE: Medieval ranged weapons Apr 11 2012, 4:07 PM EDT That's it, I know it can be done, its the how that gets me, I made some tiny ones in the past, about 9" tall that worked to a small degree but it was more for a school display project then to make a proper one. And I would always like to have some form of schematic's to work from, even with my model soldiers I that I build and paint. Hence why I asked if anyone had any ideas to what books I could get to study. But I love the idea off a few wall mounted Bolt Throwers and some Mangonels mounted on the corners off the fort Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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