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Discussion: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire

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vampirejediknight	Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 25 2011, 4:20 PM EST I heard this from my friend who's in the army, and it revolutionized my vision of fully automatic weapons. Did you know that the military advises they only be fired in 3 to 9 round bursts with substantial pauses because sustained automatic fire overheats and quickly melts the barrel. That is why machine gunners in infantry battalions are followed by assistant machine gunners who carry two extra barrels. You see, firing more than a few rounds at a time out a machine gun is not only extremely wasteful, but it can also severely damage part of your gun, and so few people know this. Post reply 4 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: None
Raptor11	1. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 25 2011, 4:42 PM EST That depends on the weapons system you are firing. You can melt a barrel on an M2 HMG but it will take a very long sustained burst to do it. There is also no way you can stop at only three rounds on some weapons. Pull the trigger and hold for a short while, let off and repeat. The fire discipline is more to stop wasting ammo then to save the barrel. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
possumblaster	2. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 25 2011, 4:49 PM EST " You see, firing more than a few rounds at a time out a machine gun is not only extremely wasteful, but it can also severely damage part of your gun, and so few people know this. " Half truth. He was talking about sustained rate of fire. Sustained rate of fire is the rate of fire that the gun could fire forever without malfunctioning. In real life, you can fire way more than the sustained rate of fire "rate" and be fine. Because, you aren't firing indefinitely. You are firing for a short period of time. I've seen a M240 burn through two 100 round belts back to back and it was fine. Could it do this indefinitely? No, but for random firefights it is fine. Barrel swaps only take a few seconds anyways. To ruin a modern machine-gun you would literally have to try or be completely incompetent. Post reply 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
DEVILDOGMP	3. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 25 2011, 4:53 PM EST "Half truth. He was talking about sustained rate of fire. Sustained rate of fire is the rate of fire that the gun could fire forever without malfunctioning. In real life, you can fire way more than the sustained rate of fire "rate" and be fine. Because, you aren't firing indefinitely. You are firing for a short period of time. I've seen a M240 burn through two 100 round belts back to back and it was fine. Could it do this indefinitely? No, but for random firefights it is fine. Barrel swaps only take a few seconds anyways. To ruin a modern machine-gun you would literally have to try or be completely incompetent." ^this. I can say I've only fired a 3 round burst a couple of times. Mostly we use semi, because its more acurate and less wasteful of rounds. I'm using a m16a4 though. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Sharpie41	4. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 25 2011, 5:29 PM EST The Canadian military teach you to say "son of a b1tch" when firing, which gives a 3-5 round burst. I've heard of a dumbass soldier firing over 1000 round through the C6 (FN MAG) completely stripped the rifling away. They are trained to fire one belt then replace barrel Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Sharpie41	5. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 25 2011, 5:56 PM EST Also, this is a very well known problem Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
vampirejediknight	6. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 25 2011, 6:36 PM EST Thanks for the help with my information. I'm just saying that many people have no idea how inaccurate the movies are when it comes to automatic fire. You can't just go blasting away for a long time at a large group of enemies (ie. horde of zombies/"zombies") and be fine. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DEVILDOGMP	7. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 25 2011, 6:46 PM EST "Thanks for the help with my information. I'm just saying that many people have no idea how inaccurate the movies are when it comes to automatic fire. You can't just go blasting away for a long time at a large group of enemies (ie. horde of zombies/"zombies") and be fine." I don't look at movies at all when it comes to weapons. You ever notice how they can fire 500 rounds out of a 30 round mag without reloading? Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Bleak_91	8. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 25 2011, 6:47 PM EST Except me of course, ive been knowing this for several years now. rolls eyes at vampirejediknight more like the "typical civilan" didn't know all that. =P Full auto weapons also tend to jam from time to time espcially when they're not cleaned on a regular basis. (like machine guns for instance) Post reply 1 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
vampirejediknight	9. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 25 2011, 6:52 PM EST I'm not trying to insult any of you. The "typcial civillains" are "many people." I know that you don't look at movies when it comes to weapons; no one in their right mind does. I'm just informing those who may not know of a problem that I'd never heard anyone here talk about before. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Oakspar77777	10. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 25 2011, 9:04 PM EST For most survival situations single shot is ideal and 3shot burst is only needed for firefights or tight quarters fighting. I know if I plan to kill a deer, hobo selling meat door to door, or zombie, I put one round where I want it. If necessary, I will put two or three down range. The few times I've used full auto, accuracy sucked. The point of auto fire is to put more than one chunk of lead into the target - strafing a crowd on full auto is not going to get you the results you think it will. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Bleak_91	11. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 25 2011, 10:18 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 25 2011, 10:25 PM EST "For most survival situations single shot is ideal and 3shot burst is only needed for firefights or tight quarters fighting. The few times I've used full auto, accuracy sucked. The point of auto fire is to put more than one chunk of lead into the target - strafing a crowd on full auto is not going to get you the results you think it will." Exactly so, Oakspar. Full auto means that your're basicly spraying rounds all over the place. My question is-Is there STILL going to be the 3-round burst? Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
epic_epicness	12. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 25 2011, 11:23 PM EST "I heard this from my friend who's in the army, and it revolutionized my vision of fully automatic weapons. Did you know that the military advises they only be fired in 3 to 9 round bursts with substantial pauses because sustained automatic fire overheats and quickly melts the barrel. That is why machine gunners in infantry battalions are followed by assistant machine gunners who carry two extra barrels. You see, firing more than a few rounds at a time out a machine gun is not only extremely wasteful, but it can also severely damage part of your gun, and so few people know this. " the gunners assistant does more than swap barrels. they also link belts, call targets and in support by fire batteries they que when each gunner bursts so they can sustain fire without overheating. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Filadog	13. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 26 2011, 4:26 AM EST I would think that it is very common knowledge that sustained full auto fire can over heat the gun enough to cause problems [though I doubt that you could "melt" a barrel Over heating besides damaging the gun, with a closed bolt gun the chamber can get hot enough so that it cooks off the shell in it which then leads to uncontrolled fire that cant be stopped till it runs out of ammo Post reply Do you find this valuable?
zombiezlayer	14. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 26 2011, 11:17 AM EST "The Canadian military teach you to say "son of a b1tch" when firing, which gives a 3-5 round burst." In America, it is "die mutherfocker, die". 3-5 second cycle. Lol Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Raptor11	15. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 26 2011, 12:33 PM EST I think the bottom line is full auto fire has a purpose when the enemy can be wounded AND you have a supply line that will keep you supplied with ammo. Neither case applies in a ZA. Conserve your ammo and make every shot count. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
OutlawJames	16. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 26 2011, 12:46 PM EST "^this. I can say I've only fired a 3 round burst a couple of times. Mostly we use semi, because its more acurate and less wasteful of rounds. I'm using a m16a4 though." DDog, Correct me if I am wrong, ( Annnd I quite possibly am) The M16a4 only has semi-auto and three round burst caoability, Yes, ??? Not sure where I read that but didn't they do that as a result of VietNam...to keep guys from popping off full mags at a time with unaimed fire, like from around corners and over barricades and such?? Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
OutlawJames	17. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 26 2011, 12:49 PM EST "I don't look at movies at all when it comes to weapons. You ever notice how they can fire 500 rounds out of a 30 round mag without reloading?" I like the movie revolvers that fire 15 rounds from a 6 round cylinder. and the 1911's that shoot 20 or 30 rounds from a standard 7 or 8 round mag. Thats what I'm gonna carry in the zedpoc.! :) Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
inu-dude25	18. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 26 2011, 5:44 PM EST Personally, I like Family Guy's break open, pump action double barrel myself, but that's just me :P Post reply Do you find this valuable?
inu-dude25	19. RE: Little-Known Problem with Fully Automatic Fire Nov 26 2011, 5:48 PM EST "Thanks for the help with my information. I'm just saying that many people have no idea how inaccurate the movies are when it comes to automatic fire. You can't just go blasting away for a long time at a large group of enemies (ie. horde of zombies/"zombies") and be fine." That is a problem in the long run, but for actual short periods of full auto fire, it's the least of your worries. For example, on one of the Sons of Guns episodes, they blew three 100-round C-mags through an M16 to test barrel temp. While that does leave the barrel red hot and will do damage, that alone did not destroy it and a regular thirty round mag or two won't leave you high and dry. You'd be eaten after sending every last round off into the sky before dying as a result of a destroyed barrel, at least in the vast majority of situations. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?

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