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Discussion: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
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thomas13mike |
40. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Nov 29 2011, 4:12 AM EST
It was important to open the gates because he wanted to shoot them LOL And the waste of ammo was important to finally tear down Hershel's delusion that these 'sick people' could ever be saved. Hence shooting them multiple times and not dying. Like he said a real person couldn't survive that. I think the standoff with Dale was to prove a very important point. Dale thinks he's crazy so in Shane's mind if I'm really that crazy then pull the trigger. He had a rifle barrel stuck in his chest wouldn't have taken but a couple pounds of pressure and the problem would have been solved. It was to prove to Dale that he doesn't have the stones to make the hard decisions. Rick and Dale's outlook on things is perfectly fine under most circumstances but the world they're living in isn't most circumstances.
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Carnack |
41. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Nov 29 2011, 4:49 AM EST
| Post edited: Nov 29 2011, 4:53 AM EST
Okay and was everyone ready to fire? What was the plan here? Would it not have been safer and less resource-intensive to have two or three people go into the loft with rifles and shoot from there?I think the only thing Shane tore down was Hershel's inclination to ever help anyone again. Shane's actions towards Dale were simple intimidation. That's it. Dale should have mentioned his suspicions to the group as a whole. Let Shane see if the group in general is impressed with his Billy Badass attitude. Rick and Dale's outlook is not the best but Shane's is no better. Both are mindlessly playing their own tunes and lack flexibility. Rick: Always help your neighbor. Shane: Always eat your neighbor. Both: Put ourselves at risk when our mentalities are exposed to situations where they do not work. In this particular case Shane is not improving matters at all and Rick is trying to change Hershel's mind in all the wrong ways. This all comes back to Shane's motivations. Is he essentially opposing Rick for the good of the camp or because he's jealous? Do you find this valuable? |
timberrattler |
42. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Nov 29 2011, 7:43 AM EST
Opening those doors was a smart move.He handed everyone a firearm, opened the gate and let nature take its course. The majority of the nomad group took part in the purging of the barn this way. If Shane would have killed every walker from the barn loft all the guilt would have fell at his feet. He now has all the able bodied men on his side but Rick. He involved all of them in the purging of "zombie barn" and if Rick hadn't already lost thier respect, him leading two walkers in on the end of sticks, following Hershal like a little puppy trying to please his master should have left them scratching thier heads. I believe Rick's hearts in the right place, his head? Not so much. Same goes for Hershal. Do you find this valuable? |
Filadog |
43. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Nov 29 2011, 7:48 AM EST
"Okay and was everyone ready to fire? What was the plan here? Would it not have been safer and less resource-intensive to have two or three people go into the loft with rifles and shoot from there?Yes maybe some ammo might have been saved if they just went up in the loft and shot the zombies inside but Shane point was to remind everyone including Hershal that these Zombies are dangerous and would attack if they are able. I think he showed this very well by opening the door Plus it brought the group together as they all stood up to protect each other from the threat. Even Rick shot the girl putting down his capture stick instead of using it to catch her alive. Shane actions showed them what they had to do If a few went into the hay loft and simply executed the zombies in cold blood as they ambled around harmlessly some people like Hershal could still deny that they are a threat but rather are still people that need help. Do you really think Hershal would be better with his "Sick" Zombie Wife being shot as she stood in a barn not an immediate threat to anyone then he would with her being shot in self defense as she is attacking people she wants to eat? The way Shane did it even Hershal I think has to admit that Zombies are not just sick people that you can be kept in a barn hoping that they will get better Wouldn't youI think Dale holding a gun on Shane and threatening to shoot him was really the intimidation ?... , just didn't work because Shane called his bluff. Do you find this valuable? |
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Filadog |
44. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Nov 29 2011, 8:09 AM EST
| Post edited: Nov 29 2011, 8:14 AM EST
"I have to say Filadog you are right when it comes to surviving. But the main reason they didn't do all these things is simply that they have morals and values. You lose all your morals and you're not much different then the undead."I think everyone has a moral duty to do what it takes for them and thier loved ones to survive. Lets think about a different scenario. You and your family are in a leaky lifeboat, after weeks on the ocean where some of you have died and all came close you see an beautiful tropical island. You come ashore to find it is inhabited with a few people, they help you some but tell you that you are going have to leave soon. Now you are better armed then they are but still you tried to get aong with them and explain how it most probably means death for your family if you leave and if you stay you can help them too They are having nothing of it and are telling you to leave NOW ! Wel I guess if you had good vaules you would do the Moral thing in this situation , eh?...You know , tell your wife and kids to get back in the leaky lifeboat and head back on the ocean even though a very good chance it could lead to them dying Is this really the "Moral" thing to do when you have the means to prevent it? Lots of talk here about how Shane is inmoral...but what about the morality of a person that wants to kick people , including women and a child, out to what could be certain death not because they are a threat to his survival but just because he doesn't want things to change where he lives and controlls? Do you find this valuable? |
Frag-12 |
45. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Nov 29 2011, 11:18 AM EST
| Post edited: Nov 29 2011, 12:15 PM EST
"AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS SHANE IS IN THE RIGHT????? He is doing everything he can to keep the group alive!!!!!!!!!!"Now how would you feel if he gave you the psychotic stare which is Shane's way of saying you're a pile of crap and the first chance I get, I am going to waste you or feed you to the zombie horde alive on a platter like I did to Otis? Half of Shane's mind is in the right place, the other half is not. I do not necessarily disagree with all of his actions, just how he gets there most of the time. Do you find this valuable? |
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Frag-12 |
46. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Nov 29 2011, 11:29 AM EST
" Lots of talk here about how Shane is inmoral...but what about the morality of a person that wants to kick people , including women and a child, out to what could be certain death not because they are a threat to his survival but just because he doesn't want things to change where he lives and controlls?"To Herschel, the zombies in the barn are kin and close friends. The stragglers are strangers and I have no close ties to them. In addition, they may not like my idea of keeping the ill in my barn, they have firearms, and they may decide to "kill" my family and friends. I do not want them here any longer than they need to so I can safeguard my family and friends until a cure is found (or there are too many for me to handle, break out, and zerg my remaining family). Shane is not really looking after the group or he would have told the unarmed and the children to either leave beyond the fence line or get behind the fence just in case the horde does overwhelm us. Do you find this valuable? |
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Frag-12 |
47. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Nov 29 2011, 12:17 PM EST
| Post edited: Nov 29 2011, 12:19 PM EST
Hershel and Shane are the same in some sense.Hershel will kick the group off the property to preserve his "sick" family and friends and Shane will hobble Otis to bring medicine back to save a member of the nomadic group. Do you find this valuable? |
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Carnack |
48. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Nov 29 2011, 12:39 PM EST
| Post edited: Nov 29 2011, 12:49 PM EST
"Lots of talk here about how Shane is inmoral...but what about the morality of a person that wants to kick people , including women and a child, out to what could be certain death not because they are a threat to his survival but just because he doesn't want things to change where he lives and controlls?"No one ever talked about Shane being "inmoral". I think he's a jealous lunatic who can't seem to turn off his combative mentality but there is no denying that in some cases he would be right if he didn't let his emotions lead the charge. As to your scenario it's easy to paint a picture where the only logical choice is to do the negative of what your target is thinking but that's not the case here in this one. In this one you have other options that do not put you into the opposition bracket and do not result in your death and as such your scenario simply is not relevant. Frag: Agreed. When it comes right down top it Hershel, Rick, and Shane are all extremes in some form with Hershel being the one keeping everything the way it was to stupid levels. Rick being the one who wants to keep his humanity but adapt enough to survive. Shane is the one foregoing his humanity altogether in favor of a numbers Mine First mentallity. The downside to Hershal's thinking are obvious. Rick's issues are more a case of ill or not present adaptation. It's a toss up either way wether he'll live or die. Shane will be combative too much and will either drive the group away or get them killed. But they are all the same in their refusal to alter to suit. Do you find this valuable? |
OutlawJames |
49. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Nov 29 2011, 1:15 PM EST
Anyone that caught the bit preview of the next episode knows that Shane blew it for the group. Hershals words to Rick " Get that man off my property" If Rick wants hershal to help in any way with the birth of Lori's kid now... He will have to run Shane off. I think Andrea or whatever her name is will go with him. But I think Shane is through at this point with the group. I don't think he has the testiculer fortitude to face Rick down. As I said in a different thread, Shane is mearly Ricks, dumb musculer backup. Shane was trying to impress cause he is hot for Lorinookie. But he alienated most of the group with the stupid stunt of opening the doors. Yes most of them fired, but self preservation has a way of doing that, making you do things you might not in other situations. What the rest of the group should ahve done was let the Zeds eat Shane, then kill them off. HAHAHA, " See Hershal they ARE dangerous, they just ate *******" 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Frag-12 |
50. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Nov 29 2011, 1:37 PM EST
| Post edited: Nov 29 2011, 1:38 PM EST
"But I think Shane is through at this point with the group. I don't think he has the testiculer fortitude to face Rick down. As I said in a different thread, Shane is mearly Ricks, dumb musculer backup.I disagree, Shane has more respect for Rick but I know if Rick poses a threat to Shane's survival, Shane will draw down on him and shoot. What would be kind of neat is Shane becomes a raider since he has that mentality. That's why I do not like him, Shane has an APOC Raider mentality. Do you find this valuable? |
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ElDiabloKid |
51. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Nov 30 2011, 6:19 AM EST
This was my fave episode but a really sad one R.I.P Sophia
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cplphillips |
52. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Dec 1 2011, 8:38 AM EST
Everybody for the mOst part seems to think Shane is crazy and alot call for the death of him. Let's recap shall we? Shane has saved ricks family, when we all tho rick died, and he made sure he got them the meds when carol was shot, yes he killed Otis, who by the way was the reason carol got shot. He also was the leader b4 Rick and they had a great thing going for them. Ppl didn't start dying until Rick came, he is the One who risked lives to search for merl, who instead of just killing as he was a true threat to everybody in camp and just lying that the walkers got him. He left the camp undermanned and under gunned and the camp lost half it's members. Rick is noble but he is so set on doing the right thing that he puts them all at risk, Shane had the group just chilling in the woods, getting supply's when needed and they had a really good life, considering the situation. Shane will do what is best for the group as a whole, is he a hot-head, yeah. But at least he is not helping bring walkers to the farm or hid the guns in a swamp, Dale thinks he can just say whatever to whoever and he can't. He dose nothing but sit on top the camper and act like everybodies grandfather. As for hershal. He is the crazy one and Shane just snapped him outta it a little, but if it were me and my family and I had all the guns and some guy who has no guns told me to leave, pretty much pushing to back to death, I'd do whatever it took to keep my family safe, hershal is lucky he isn't dead. As for the ammo. I honestly don't know where they have it all, they trained how many ppl to shoot? Little ridiculous at this point, yeah they "wasted" some killing the walkers, maybe thirty rounds, at most. Bet they spent alot more training ppl to shoot, at least they made the camp safer and got live prac app. But I digress. Shane will not get the group killed, he was only responsible for one death and it was excusable to save carol.
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OutlawJames |
53. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Dec 1 2011, 10:46 AM EST
"Everybody for the mOst part seems to think Shane is crazy and alot call for the death of him. "A couple things wrong with your lines of thought.. We all know now that Hershal wants Shane off the property...They NEED Hershal for Loris baby. If Shane is there, no help, Hershal is old and wether crazy or not, In his mind Shane just caused the death of Hershals Wife and son. Hershal wont help even if Shane threatens to kill him. He has nothing to lose in his mind. If SHane threatens to Harm Hershals daughter, Glen will finally step up and shot Shane in the back, or Dale will, or one of the women...Shane has no trump card... In the beginning we dont know for sure how much Shane was "Leader" or just self appointed muscule to enforce the groups decisions...and we really dont know how much of a hand He had in saving Lori and Karl ( not carol). As far as Hershal not being dead...even Shane knows that he is the best thing to a doctor they have. He is not quite that stupid or crazy yet. Do you find this valuable? |
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Filadog |
54. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Dec 1 2011, 11:40 AM EST
"A couple things wrong with your lines of thought.. We all know now that Hershal wants Shane off the property..."Actually Hershal wants them ALL off his property not just Shane. he told Rick not once, not twice but repeatedly that he wanted them ALL gone no matter what Rick or the others do he wants them all to go. I think it would be hard for Hershal to be more adamant then he has been about this that he wants them all off his farm and that he isn't going to help them Rick begged him to let them stay telling him about his wife and Hershal didn't budge Hershal could have said..."well leave your pregnant wife here till she has a baby but the rest have to leave" but did he? ...Nope The welfare of the people in the group just isn't important to him as is his being in charge of his small kingdom and his keeping dead people around Hershal is a very controlling person.....heck he is even trying to controll the Dead Zombies!.....and just wants it his way I can see how a Vet might be of some help with a hard delivery but I don't think it is fair to put the rest of the group at risk on the small chance that Hershal will help or will even be needed. Lots of women had babys with the aid of a veternarian Do you find this valuable? |
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OutlawJames |
55. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Dec 1 2011, 1:14 PM EST
"Actually Hershal wants them ALL off his property not just Shane. he told Rick not once, not twice but repeatedly that he wanted them ALL gone no matter what Rick or the "Wether they leave or stay, They are at risk...thats the big picture, The farm is not a safe haven, or there would never have been any zeds there. Granted the zeds in the barn are dangerous...but more than ones wanderinig loose out in the world...no. Which is where the group will have to go. As far as Hershal being valuable...he saved Karl. So yeah he is valuable. At the end of the last episode Hershal was budging he was testing Rick with the whole capturing ole UncleZed, He was going to let them stay , under his terms. Till Shane shot the wad and blew it up. At this point Rick and many others , in my opinion will gladly shoot Shane, just for the chance to stay there. Yes Hershal is just a vet, but what else do they have thats any better?? What puzzles me though is why ( especially Shane, who is supposed to be so smart) didn't one of them use the arguement to Hershal, that they were AT the CDC, watched a brain scan of an infected, watch them die then come back as something else... Sorry Doctors say they are brain dead and something else has reanimated them.... That may have changed his mind faster than all the whining they have all done. Do you find this valuable? |
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Carnack |
56. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Dec 1 2011, 2:45 PM EST
| Post edited: Dec 1 2011, 2:55 PM EST
"Hershal could have said..."well leave your pregnant wife here till she has a baby but the rest have to leave" but did he? ...Nope The welfare of the people in the group just isn't important to him as is his being in charge of his small kingdom and his keeping dead people around"So...he's you. ;) My Group, My Safety, My Needs summs you up to a T Filadog. And is that a bad thing really? I mean he did what almost anyone (who wanted to help) would do. Helped them with their immediate need while maintaining the fact that it is not a Permanent Arrangment. So let's look at this: Carl had a need and Hershel helped as did Otis when really only Otis was beholden by himself to help. So let's say he goes with Rick's mentallity that his wife is pregnant and needs help what after? "We can't travel out there with a baby. It's unsafe!" So in letting them stay how many years will he be going for? Till the kid is old enough to shut up when he's told? When exactly can his help end without a guilt trip involved? Years? And of course Maggie and Angela will be going Jungle Style with their guys too during this time and with little/no protection odds of conception are good. "We can't leave! Angela/Maggie is pregnant and we'll need your help!" After Birth: You can't as us to leave with a baby! It's dangerous and Glen will never leave." It will not end till someone say "Enough". And I think a good end point is helping with the issues a member of his group caused and leaving them to their own issues. Do you find this valuable? |
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timberrattler |
57. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Dec 1 2011, 7:12 PM EST
Well gee, that'd be awful if two groups of un-related people hooked up and made babies. Would kind of bring some meaning to the survival of the human race, ya know? Hershal wants to "cure" folks who don't have a pulse and smell of rot. How do you cure someone who's body has already started decomposing anyway? Wouldn't gangrene set in immediately? The way I see it Shane didn't "ruin" it to begin with. No matter how big a sob story Rick gave Hershal the old man didn't seem to be moved. Hershal was a real dick about not letting the group know Sophie was right there in his barn when they were risking thier lives looking for her. He was too busy protecting his zombie family to care about the living. Do you find this valuable? |
PedroAsani |
58. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Dec 1 2011, 8:20 PM EST
"Well gee, that'd be awful if two groups of un-related people hooked up and made babies.I have to question the timeline on this. Rick left Sophia hiding, drew two zombies away. She runs off, presumably she doesn't drop the doll until she is being chased. So she made it quite a distance before she was attacked. Then she had to die, revive, and wander somewhere that the Farmers would find and corral her. Meanwhile, Rick goes back to the group, and they search. During that, Carl is shot, and they find the Farmers. They mention the search for Sophia. Now, we know that Otis was the one who corraled the zombies. So maybe they didn't mention her to him, but Otis didn't work alone, at least not getting the barn open and closed, surely? Can someone check the episodes for a rough time between Sophia going missing, and the main group telling the Farmers about her? Who got told, and when? Because I don't think it's possible Sophia was in the barn before Carl got shot, and the rest of the Farmers knew a girl was missing at some point. But was that point when Rick showed up, or when Lori does, or when the rest of the group do? Do you find this valuable? |
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Carnack |
59. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread
Dec 1 2011, 9:07 PM EST
@TRNot awful but it begs the question of who is responsable for its care? Me a random stranger or you the hopeful parents? I mean let's be honest here Lori is Rick's wife and Shane's bang-buddy. At no point has Hershel gotten anything from these people but grief and attitude. And you expect him to be the little joiner and help your group with stuff your group did? Pass. "Hershal was a real dick about not letting the group know Sophie was right there in his barn" And he was supposed to know he had Sophia how? Do you find this valuable? |
