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Discussion: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread

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dahut	60. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 1 2011, 9:46 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 1 2011, 9:46 PM EST "I think everyone has a moral duty to do what it takes for them and thier loved ones to survive. Lets think about a different scenario. You and your family are in a leaky lifeboat, after weeks on the ocean where some of you have died and all came close you see an beautiful tropical island. You come ashore to find it is inhabited with a few people, they help you some but tell you that you are going have to leave soon. Now you are better armed then they are but still you tried to get aong with them and explain how it most probably means death for your family if you leave and if you stay you can help them too They are having nothing of it and are telling you to leave NOW ! Wel I guess if you had good vaules you would do the Moral thing in this situation , eh?...You know , tell your wife and kids to get back in the leaky lifeboat and head back on the ocean even though a very good chance it could lead to them dying Is this really the "Moral" thing to do when you have the means to prevent it? Lots of talk here about how Shane is inmoral...but what about the morality of a person that wants to kick people , including women and a child, out to what could be certain death not because they are a threat to his survival but just because he doesn't want things to change where he lives and controlls?" I think Shane did the right thing - there are no innocents at the end of the world. It's stand or fall. But Sofia was the secret Herschel was keeping - damn!! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
IrishHitman	61. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 1 2011, 9:53 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 1 2011, 9:53 PM EST "Rick: Always help your neighbor. Shane: Always eat your neighbor." Both are idiots. Rick is unrealistic entirely by complying with Hershel's viewpoint. It's indulging a delusion. Furthermore, the idea that it's "his farm" is hilariously pre-outbreak ideology. The maximum number of people who can be sustained in an area should be, with provisos like insuring they're not dangerous. They aren't thinking of their species' survival at all, who the hell is Hershel to say that his property rights trump the lives of an entire group of people and the continuation of the American population? I'm shocked that it only seems to be Shane that understands that the acceptance of that paradigm is ********. Shane himself is also unrealistic in that he's excessively ruthless, seeding discord in the group and so decreasing their odds of survival. Ironically, this trait helped the group for once in that the delusional logic of Hershel was thoroughly put in its place. Dale or Glenn seem to be the middleground between the two, and either would probably make a better leader. The show has been very accurate in showing that without a structure for making decisions, the strong are the people who lead. Shane and Rick are probably the most combat capable of the group, and their leadership is accepted generally. PS: Hello again to everyone who knows me Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
timberrattler	62. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 1 2011, 10:11 PM EST " PS: Hello again to everyone who knows me " Hello Mr. Hitman. Good to see you again! I'd say post-Z that it's only your property if your strong enough to hold onto it wouldn't you? LOL. Poor Carnack, he just doesn't get it. Maybe you can get through to him. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	63. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 1 2011, 10:12 PM EST Good to see you back Irish. It's not really a case of ownership but ownership has always existed. My clothes, my gun, my spouse, my kids, my dog, etc. Modern ownership may change Post-Z but it doesn't change the fact that he knows that land better than every single person in Rick's group. Beyond that he knows how to take the land past the dirt stage into an actual farm. And finally (and no offense to your way of seeing things) it is not Hershel's (or anyone's responsability) to carry humanity on their shoulders. We are as beholden to it was we want to be. If humanity collectivly wants to move forward it will and if we want to put a gun in our mouth and pull the trigger we will. One man's actions will not change it. As such Hershel is not in the grand scheme of things bothering much. As for accepting the ownership paradigm it does make sense on Rick's part. He could take over the one farm evicting or killing resistors and leave himself with nightmares and his farm or he can go over all the other targets with little living resistence. Hard way or easy way. I take easy. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
IrishHitman	64. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 1 2011, 10:17 PM EST "Hello Mr. Hitman. Good to see you again! I'd say post-Z that it's only your property if your strong enough to hold onto it wouldn't you? LOL. Poor Carnack, he just doesn't get it. Maybe you can get through to him. " It's only your property if everyone else accepts that it is, or as you say, you're strong enough to hold onto it yourself. I plan to utilise both tenets of that concept in order to stay the hell alive... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	65. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 1 2011, 10:20 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 1 2011, 10:22 PM EST "It's only your property if everyone else accepts that it is, or as you say, you're strong enough to hold onto it yourself. I plan to utilise both tenets of that concept in order to stay the hell alive..." There is no disputing that but in Rick's case there is no purpose. They aren't farmers and they'll need one and they aren't doctors and he wants one. Force yields neither of those. Not safely anyway so no point in doing it. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
OutlawJames	66. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 1 2011, 10:29 PM EST Now see I would buy the whole Shane is "strong like bull" thing and interested in everyone in the groups safety ( like he was spotting in this last episode) except for a few things.... Right at the beginning, His whole attitude was, "we musn't risk people" , to save anyone ..for the safety of the group.... Yet 5 or 6 of the group had gone into Atlanta, so if he was in charge and worried about thier safety, why did that happen.,,,,So right there either it shows.. A. He isn't really leading anyone or B. He really isnt worried about anyones safety. Or both Now reallity is he has two worries 1. He is worried about Shanes safety and 2. He is worried about not getting any Lorinookie Shane also has two fears 1. Zombies, being caught by them.. and 2. being alone. Being strong is important, but you dont destroy any ties you might make with what few survivors you run across....the population is to thin at this point to allow it... You need every live body and resource you come across. Shanes whole attitude right now is "Prove Shane is right, to hell with anybody else" It dosen't work for me. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
IrishHitman	67. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 1 2011, 10:32 PM EST There's a difference between private property and personal property. Private property is generally things that evolved due to the development of law, things like land, companies, etc. Things you can't steal by just picking them up and walking/driving off. Guns, clothes, spouses, kids, dogs, these are personal property. The former is a lot more important in terms of survival, because it is part and parcel of producing things that people need. Personal property doesn't generate wealth, or food, or goods, private property can. One man's actions can change it. One man changed the world in 1914, one man changed the world in 1939, one man changed the world in the late 80s, one man is just the start of a domino effect. Admittedly, Hershel himself probably knows that he can't reasonably boot out a well armed group that's desperate, the same way Rick and Shane can't reasonably execute Hershel and simply take the farm. The point is that the group is still holding on to pre-infection thinking that is not productive to their survival, or that of the species. The group needs to realise that indulging Hershel is delusional thinking in a world where land law doesn't exist anymore. As for being beholden to the survival of the human race, we are all instinctually bound to it, to pass on our genes is a primary objective of living for any living creature. However, you are generally right, not everyone will think of the species when they act, but someone has to, or it's the end of our civilisation. It's reasonably certain that quite a few people will realise that. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	68. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 1 2011, 11:17 PM EST But there is no point in not. In one week they are gone and Hershel can rot for all the impact he'll have on them. It's not a matter of not thinking about the species but the limit of that thinking. Hershel has helped these people by providing a safe(r) location and intelligence and food I'm assuming. He also helped Carl at significant personal cost. Way I see it he's done his duty to society. He's not required to provide room and board. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
IrishHitman	69. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 1 2011, 11:37 PM EST "But there is no point in not. In one week they are gone and Hershel can rot for all the impact he'll have on them. It's not a matter of not thinking about the species but the limit of that thinking. Hershel has helped these people by providing a safe(r) location and intelligence and food I'm assuming. He also helped Carl at significant personal cost. Way I see it he's done his duty to society. He's not required to provide room and board. " He's not required to provide room and board despite the fact that it endangers the lives of said people, and he doesn't lose much anyway? I don't think we're going to agree on this point :P Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	70. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 1 2011, 11:45 PM EST "He's not required to provide room and board despite the fact that it endangers the lives of said people, and he doesn't lose much anyway? I don't think we're going to agree on this point :P" The world in general is dangerous. It's dangerous for him, for them, for everyone. The only reason zombies have not gotten to the farm is really just luck and a dose of secrecy. I just don't see where he owes them a safe place in addition to all the other help he has offered. That said knowing your stances and mine no I really don't think we will. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Filadog	71. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 2 2011, 5:07 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 2 2011, 5:07 AM EST ". As far as Hershal being valuable...he saved Karl. So yeah he is valuable. What puzzles me though is why ( especially Shane, who is supposed to be so smart) didn't one of them use the arguement to Hershal, that they were AT the CDC, watched a brain scan of an infected, watch them die then come back as something else..." I'm sure you ment to say that Hershal AND Shane saved Karl , remember Hershal said he couldn't do anything more for Karl till Shane risked his life to get the needed medical supplies. They owe Karl's life to both Hershal and Shane but of course it was only Shane that risked his life to save the boy's Hershal is an educated medical man, not a supistitious primitive, he certainly knows that a man in the condition as the Zombie in the well could not survive like that and be still alive. Remember Shane shot the captured Zombies in the chest to show Hershal that they were no longer human and alive. Hershal is delusional and mentally ill and cant accept the fact that these Zombis are Dead and Dangerous no matter what the proof is that he sees. He knows the facts but can't accept them because he is delusional Not much different then a crazy guy that can't accept that a loved one is dead so they keep the mummified corpse in the attic setting in a rocking chair I guess on the surface Hershal comes across as a nice guy to some but to me he comes across as a dangerous delusional mentally ill controll freak that would never be satisfied till everything goes back to like it was since he can't cope with change. How long will it be till he decides to do something about Glen because he sure isn't happy about his daughter and that "asian boy" situation Glen is a much bigger threat to him then Shane If the group gives into Hershals whims they have to be prepared to do what a crazy man tells them Post reply Do you find this valuable?
timberrattler	72. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 2 2011, 7:03 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 2 2011, 7:03 AM EST " If the group gives into Hershals whims they have to be prepared to do what a crazy man tells them" This. ^ The harvesting zombies with catch poles is a perfect example. I still don't know what the process of getting the infected into the barn was but I'm sure it wasn't OSHA approved. Noble Rick put his life at risk for something any sane person would know was foolish. He let Hershal know that he would do anything he asked without question. Hershal's lucky he's not poppin' a squat in one of the tents while the nomad group enjoys the comfort of his home. Holding onto the dream of Hershal delivering your wife's baby and the hope that he will continue to "allow" you to squat on his yard is insane. That old man could trip up on his next "zombie savin'" mission and get bit. Then who's gonna "cure" the zombie virus and save all the poor infected people. They're people ya know. LOL. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	73. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 2 2011, 12:03 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 2 2011, 12:07 PM EST I'm still not seeing why Hershel's delusion is a big deal here? Rick and gang isn't welcome and won't be staying They won't go the route you folks are going. Wouldn't accomplish anything even if they did since they can't do anything with the area. In effect this is all over one man doing something that in the scheme of things doesn't matter very much. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
OutlawJames	74. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 2 2011, 3:17 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 2 2011, 3:17 PM EST "I'm sure you ment to say that Hershal AND Shane saved Karl , remember Hershal said he couldn't do anything more for Karl till Shane risked his life to get the needed medical supplies. They owe Karl's life to both Hershal and Shane but of course it was only Shane that risked his life to save the boy's " Oh how we forget so soon....AND WHO went with Shane because Shane dosent know a trech tube from a rectal thermometer...???? OTIS went with him, and was quite bluntly murdered by Shane because of Shanes Cowardice and desire to hunt Lorinookie more. WHY did OTIS know about med stuff, Because he was an EMT..remember??? Therefore Shane..If he was really sincere about giving Carl his best chance to live would have blown his own brains out to distract the ZEDS while OTIS escaped, because an EMT would have been way more useful to Hershal as an assistant than a cripped up dumb hick police orificer. Hershal is disturbed...dangerous. not really Control freak.again, not really..its his property, they came to him, asked his help, got his friend killed (Murdered) I think he is justified... My opinion, you dont like what Hershal wants, move on, take up lodginig in one of the nearby farms. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	75. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 2 2011, 3:21 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 2 2011, 3:21 PM EST "My opinion, you dont like what Hershal wants, move on, take up lodginig in one of the nearby farms." Farms would not suit this group that well. I'd still shoot for their original plan of a military base. Assuming it's unoccupied there may be valuable equipment there. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
timberrattler	76. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 2 2011, 4:34 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 2 2011, 4:34 PM EST "Farms would not suit this group that well. I'd still shoot for their original plan of a military base. Assuming it's unoccupied there may be valuable equipment there." They stepped over soldiers with M4s and M9s going into and out of the disease control center. This group hasn't wrapped its mind around smart scavenging yet. If its not condoms or aborton drugs they don't seem to be interested. A truckload of water jugs was only worth a quick shower for Shane. Screw loading the RV full of 'em. Instead of stripping the drugstore of everything they go back time after time risking death or infection with every trip. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	77. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 2 2011, 4:51 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 2 2011, 4:53 PM EST In: A great deal of zombies in a potential hotzone. Out: Big ass explosion imminent. That said you are correct about the water and drug stores. You stuff as much as you can pack into whatever you have to stuff it into. I say that that loaded highway seems like a primo spot to scavenge. yes it's in the relative open but it turned out water and weapons so it's worth a check. That area seems like farm country and I have not met a married farmer who's wife was not a canner but that may cause issues if the other farms are loaded with walkers. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
moonshade13	78. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 4 2011, 2:18 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 4 2011, 2:19 PM EST "They stepped over soldiers with M4s and M9s going into and out of the disease control center. This group hasn't wrapped its mind around smart scavenging yet. If its not condoms or aborton drugs they don't seem to be interested. A truckload of water jugs was only worth a quick shower for Shane. Screw loading the RV full of 'em. Instead of stripping the drugstore of everything they go back time after time risking death or infection with every trip." Totally agree with you here Timber. That RV would have been so loaded down w/ rifles & ammo, it would have made Rambo orgasm. Same with the water jugs. They would have been strapped onto every vehicle that we had. 1st trip to that drugstore would have been a clean sweep. Everything from cough drops to painkillers to antibiotics to "trippy drugs" that I could have jammed in a bag or on that horse would have been taken. Also, things like vitamines & anything resembling a "powerbar". Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Frag-12	79. RE: Official Walking Dead Discussion Thread Dec 6 2011, 1:14 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 6 2011, 1:14 PM EST "They stepped over soldiers with M4s and M9s going into and out of the disease control center. This group hasn't wrapped its mind around smart scavenging yet. If its not condoms or aborton drugs they don't seem to be interested. A truckload of water jugs was only worth a quick shower for Shane. Screw loading the RV full of 'em. Instead of stripping the drugstore of everything they go back time after time risking death or infection with every trip." This is what happens when you let non-survivalist make apocalyptic TV Shows and Movies. Or, it is to make sure all of us are on the edges of our seats yelling either in anger or fear. Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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