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Discussion: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different

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chitoryu12	Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 12:36 AM EST One or two people saw this in chat tonight, but I think I should put it up here. It's a learning experience for anyone who's never held a gun in defense of themselves or others, and overestimates their capabilities. About an hour ago, I was sitting right here, talking to my girlfriend on Facebook chat. I heard screaming, and when I looked out the blinds I saw a shouting match at the house across the street. So I dragged my rifle over to the door and peeked out to see. The guy who lives across the street was arguing with his girlfriend, who often visits the house. It was difficult to tell, but it had something to do with visitation and/or custody of his daughter-in-law, who was a baby in her SUV. I stood out on the porch and set my rifle aside, making it clearly visible. It stopped them, but my mother was convinced that it wasn't our problem. So I went back in, but kept an eye on them; he had been getting physical, but never to the point of actual attacks. The guy starts to head back inside, and the girlfriend gets in the driver's seat. Suddenly, he wrenches open the door to her SUV and starts screaming at her, then leans in and begins attacking. It's difficult to tell if he's trying to get at the baby and take it or if he's in some kind of bloody rage, but what is clear is that he's very violent, angry, and definitely causing harm. I come up with the rifle shouldered, screaming at him to back off. He tries to posture and act like I'm not serious, but I take the safety off and aim at his head. He finally starts to head inside, and I remain out there until the girlfriend drives off safely and he's in. Post reply 3 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: adrenaline attack fear guns mental state mentality psychology scared weapon
chitoryu12	1. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 12:49 AM EST This is obviously a serious situation, and not something the majority of people get to experience. This forum deals in a lot of what-ifs and has a lot of people discussing self-defense and the ability to kill potentially dozens of people over the course of a post-apocalyptic world. Self-defense and justifiable homicide get thrown around a lot, often by people who don't fully understand the mental ramifications. Often young teenagers who talk about how they would execute people or send them to their deaths in the name of survival. Let me break down everything you feel: You come out screaming. You can't even force yourself to focus on the sights and make sure they're aligned, because you're completely focused on the target. White t-shirt, good target. Hands are held up, might move to the waist. Threatening movement, pull the trigger. Check the safety twice just to make sure it's off. All you hear is the two of you shouting across the street at each other. Light puts the man in perfect focus. You come back in, and your hands start shaking. You can barely hold a drink or type for 20 minutes after. After an hour, a slight headache comes and the light becomes glaring. While you're outside, you're completely still because you're trying your hardest to be tough and not panic. You know that one slip can take a life, and one quick movement could take yours. You know exactly what could happen if it all goes sour. But you do it anyways because someone is in danger and you're not exactly thinking everything through; contrary to what some people think, you can't think of all the legal ramifications of your actions and choose the most safe course of action. If I wasn't so focused, I could have never pulled the trigger. It took every ounce of my being to stay out there instead of just backing inside and hiding. I'm not sure everyone here can do that. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
chitoryu12	2. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 12:54 AM EST This story makes it sound easy. I'm a 19-year-old actor who spent the day ushering for the radio version of Its A Wonderful Life, kissed his new girlfriend for the first time, and joked with his friends over pizza. It was a calm day, no stress. Then you hear the screaming, and you realize that everything is going to sh*t. I know some people here couldn't do this. I don't know what the psychological consequences would have been if I had pulled the trigger and watched another human being drop to the asphalt. I know that even by risking my safety and using only the threat of lethal force, I am not walking away completely unharmed mentally. I might have a nightmare about this tonight, who knows? Do you all think that you could make it away from a killing unscathed? We all like to be natural-born killers when the chips are down and save humanity, but it's a hell of a lot harder than simply vomiting once and going on to slaughter a dozen more in the next few minutes. Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Sharpie41	3. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 12:54 AM EST First thing, good for you, I don't even know what else to say. Next, baby daughter in law? Any legal action being taken against you? Here if I pointed even an unloaded gun at someone I go to jail for up to 6 months I think. Could you have pulled the trigger if you had to? Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
IrishHitman	4. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 12:57 AM EST Question: Why not call the cops? By all means, get your rifle and stand watch, but call the cops too. There are alternatives to fighting, and as your experience shows, you need to take those alternatives when they're viable.. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
IrishHitman	5. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 12:58 AM EST "I'm a 19-year-old actor who spent the day ushering for the radio version of Its A Wonderful Life, kissed his new girlfriend for the first time, and joked with his friends over pizza." Damn, romance in Europe is a whole lot more direct... Post reply 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
chitoryu12	6. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 12:58 AM EST "Next, baby daughter in law?" Yeah. I don't know much about the family, but the SUV is there often. The argument had to do with custody, visitation, or even just being allowed to see her. From his temper and her unwillingness to let him near the kid, I think it was justified. "Any legal action being taken against you? Here if I pointed even an unloaded gun at someone I go to jail for up to 6 months I think." It was about 2 hours ago, and no word from the house. The girl made it out safely and the guy went inside, so no police intervention. Considering that he was violently attacking a girl and committing an unlawful entry felony, it's legally justified. "Could you have pulled the trigger if you had to?" I was watching his arms to see if he made any movement. If I saw him reaching for his waistband, I might have just pulled on reflex. If he advanced toward me, he'd get warnings and I'd back into the house; the moment he enters the house, I'm in full legal rights to open fire. Florida allows for home defense in case of unlawful entry. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
chitoryu12	7. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 12:59 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 1:00 AM EST "Question: Why not call the cops? By all means, get your rifle and stand watch, but call the cops too. There are alternatives to fighting, and as your experience shows, you need to take those alternatives when they're viable.." I wanted to, but it started calming down. The girl got in her truck, the guy stopped screaming and was walking inside. It looked like no intervention was necessary until he ran over and practically leaped into the vehicle. Edit: For the record, it would be a miracle if the cops arrived in 5 minutes. That's a long time for a beating to go on. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
chitoryu12	8. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 1:02 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 1:02 AM EST I honestly cannot wish this situation upon anyone. I know we'd all like to prove ourselves and run up to the ZSDW with a story of how we fended off a rampaging meth head trying to eat a baby, but you don't know how hard it is on your psyche until you have to do it yourself. And this is just the THREAT of violence. What happens when you have to fire? Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Sullivan714	9. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 1:10 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 1:10 AM EST Pretty crazy story. I'm not sure if I would have done that though. As my job entails I would probably have just observed and called the police. I'm not one for confrontation unless absolutely necessary. But to answer the OP's question, if I HAD to, I would do anything to keep myself alive. I don't care if I would have nightmares or even being maimed. I just want to end up going home alive that day. Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
IrishHitman	10. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 1:17 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 1:17 AM EST On calling the cops, you see **** like that, you call them immediately. It doesn't matter if it seems to have calmed down, something very dangerous happened and it needs to be on evidence that it happened, precisely because it's an indicator of future actions. Back on the subject, I don't think it would be particularly easy for anyone to start killing others, but I reckon it's a bit like sex, it's awkward at first, but you get better with practice. Besides, the undead probably are a very clear and present danger, so the justification for slaughter is a tad higher than just some drunk bastard abusing his girlfriend. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
chitoryu12	11. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 1:26 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 1:26 AM EST I can imagine a lot of the kids who casually throw around promises to execute bitten people or would automatically take the "guard" job just so they can walk around with a gun and see more action than the farmers would break down as soon as they had to watch someone's head pop. Zombie or human, it's still a kill. And it'll take a lot to get over that. I really didn't want to confront them, and I've seen plenty of screaming fights around the place without getting involved. This is the only one that's ever escalated to a violent attack, and I wasn't thinking about anything but getting him away from the girl and baby. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
IrishHitman	12. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 1:43 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 1:43 AM EST "I can imagine a lot of the kids who casually throw around promises to execute bitten people or would automatically take the "guard" job just so they can walk around with a gun and see more action than the farmers would break down as soon as they had to watch someone's head pop. Zombie or human, it's still a kill. And it'll take a lot to get over that. I really didn't want to confront them, and I've seen plenty of screaming fights around the place without getting involved. This is the only one that's ever escalated to a violent attack, and I wasn't thinking about anything but getting him away from the girl and baby." The baby is precisely why it was so dangerous, and why I would have called the cops. Anyway, there will be people who can kill reasonably easily, and there will be people who crack entirely under the gravity of the necessity. It's not something to brag about if you could do it, but it is something you need to think about ultimately. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
chitoryu12	13. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 1:45 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 1:45 AM EST I've been discussing this, and I remembered something. This guy I was threatening? Nice guy to me. We've exchanged pleasantries when we happened to be outside at the same time, welcomed them to the neighborhood, etc. I think when it comes to the situations we often discuss here, we don't think about having to kill our friends and neighbors often. "Raider" becomes a term, a dehumanizing word to refer to a bloodthirsty bandit in leather who roars up in an F-150, guns blazing and wearing severed heads around their waist. You don't think that the guy you've seen at a barbecue or the family of four next door are going to be killing and robbing, and you don't think that you may end up having to shoot acquaintances because it's the only option. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
chitoryu12	14. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 1:49 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 1:49 AM EST "The baby is precisely why it was so dangerous, and why I would have called the cops. Anyway, there will be people who can kill reasonably easily, and there will be people who crack entirely under the gravity of the necessity. It's not something to brag about if you could do it, but it is something you need to think about ultimately." One unfortunate bit is that I still live with my mother; I AM 19 after all. She's very concerned about me getting involved in such deals, and thinks that it's simply not our business. She didn't even want me holding the gun, and simply wanted me to shout at him across the street until he backed off. Calling the cops is a big no-no, as sad as that is. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
DEVILDOGMP	15. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 1:53 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 1:53 AM EST 1) you handled the situation pretty well, but remember you can go to jail for attempted assault with a deadly weapon, he can go to jail for DV, there's a big time difference forr jail time. 2) Irish is right, calling the police would be the correct route to go, we have training on how to deal with such people. I see this on the daily basis, DV is mostly what I deal with on base. I've luckily only had to draw my firearm 3 times and never used it. Most of the time when they see it they relent, but that's because I'm wearing a badge and they know I can justify firing it. I applaud you, but be more careful next time. You don't know what he has in his house, on his person, or in a friends house. Trust me, killing someone leaves you scared for life, you will never get it out of your head, no matter how justified. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
chitoryu12	16. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 2:00 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 2:00 AM EST I was most concerned for the safety of herself and the child. It would be amazing if it took the police less than 5 minutes to arrive, at which point they would show up to a quiet neighborhood and an escaped victim (and therefore utterly no evidence of wrongdoing) or a woman who was unconscious or dead and probably a dead baby. Even speeding from the nearest police station, it would take them about 4 or 5 minutes. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
possumblaster	17. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 3:04 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 3:05 AM EST "1) you handled the situation pretty well, but remember you can go to jail for attempted assault with a deadly weapon, he can go to jail for DV, there's a big time difference forr jail time. 2) Irish is right, calling the police would be the correct route to go, we have training on how to deal with such people. I see this on the daily basis, DV is mostly what I deal with on base. I've luckily only had to draw my firearm 3 times and never used it. Most of the time when they see it they relent, but that's because I'm wearing a badge and they know I can justify firing it. I applaud you, but be more careful next time. You don't know what he has in his house, on his person, or in a friends house. Trust me, killing someone leaves you scared for life, you will never get it out of your head, no matter how justified." I 100% agree with devildog. Having a firearm on you for self defense is one thing, but aiming it at someone who is unarmed can get you in huge trouble. Now I'm not busting your balls, and I know that sometimes you just have to make a quick decision and you did. I think it's good that you got to experience that situation, but I just hope there aren't any issues that come about from the whole thing. Having to pull a gun on your neighbor could cause some problems in the near future. I just really hope he leaves you alone. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
epic_epicness	18. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says different Dec 5 2011, 3:06 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 3:06 AM EST "I was most concerned for the safety of herself and the child. It would be amazing if it took the police less than 5 minutes to arrive, at which point they would show up to a quiet neighborhood and an escaped victim (and therefore utterly no evidence of wrongdoing) or a woman who was unconscious or dead and probably a dead baby. Even speeding from the nearest police station, it would take them about 4 or 5 minutes." hindsight is 20/20 There are plenty of things you could have done differently but you didn't. What you did do though is protect a woman and child from possible death or serious bodily harm, The rest is just details. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Filadog	19. RE: Think you're an ice cold killer? My experience tonight says differ Dec 5 2011, 7:10 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 7:10 AM EST Hard to picture how you could have handled this worse then you did, I guess if you shot the guy for arguring with his girlfriend or missed and hit her or the kid His story now..." I had an argument with my girl friend last night, we are both hot heads and fight alot. She was trying to take my kid even though I had court order visitation rights. This neighbor kid who seems to be always watching us comes out on his porch with a rifle , WTF? We ignor him but then he comes running with it screaming threatening to shoot me! Since I was unarmed not much I could do. My girlfriend thinks we should call the police now, living next to an obvious unstable armed person I'm thinking about getting a gun.... What you should have done if you wanted to get involved into other peoples bussiness is to called the police and told them about the fighting Not go outside your house to show them you had a gun and certainly not escalate things by running over there with a gun screaming because you think the guy is doing something. From your story doesn't sound like the girl's life was being endangered , just yelling and maybe his trying to get the kid out of a car seat Personly I think if the guy was armed he would have been with in his rights to have shot you, ....if I was being threatend by a nut with a rifle I would shoot them if I could You can just about count on the girl being on the boyfriend side on all this and not yours BTW I'm a big advocate of people owning guns but have to Say I have some reservations about a person that behaved like you being armed I had a simular situation as this but actually worse befor , I certainly didn't handle it by running over with a rifle ! Post reply 1 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?

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