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cyrano222 |
GPS a good thing or not?
Dec 31 2011, 5:41 PM EST
I was reading the Build the BOB from the ground up article and I have reservations about the GPS information(nothing against the person who wrote it just my $ .02). I understand the advantages of a hand held GPS unit they are great, but remember they are only a machine they have limitations. For example I live next to a large National Forest and about two or three times a year I find people in the woods who have no right to be in the woods without a helmet. Recently I have been finding jackholes who are Geocaching(which in theory is a great thing to get people off their bums and doing things) but go into the woods with no supplies or skills other than an AA powered device. Two people have run out of battries, one busted, and one left it sitting on a rock and wandered away. Learning how to read a map is a skill you should have before you go into the woods, having and useing basic equipment also. Sorry for the rant but I dont want to have to help the local Rangers pull some dumb fool out of my back yard because he watched Les Stroud or some other show.Am I wrong in my assesment of the GPS unit? Am I basing my opinion on a limited number of mouth breathers? What do you all think? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
Zee-Man |
1. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Dec 31 2011, 6:33 PM EST
It is a sad thing that there are very many people who watch a TV show and think they are ready for the great outdoors. GPS locators may indeed give people a false sense of security. Your observations are, sadly, not unique. I have done a fair amount of browsing Youtube about bushcrafting. Most of the folks posting videos there have stories similar to your. They and several folks here at ZDSW agree with you that orienteering is much more than what a GPS can do. Map reading is and integral part of it. A GPS is no more than a high tech compass. Neither tool is enough to get you through the wilderness (outback or urban). Recently I went out to the woods where I tramped as a young teen, looking for a campsite I had made. I used to go out there and find everything in a 2 mile radius with no trouble. I got lost. It wasnt bad since I had a very good image of the map in my head. I knew I could walk 2 miles in any direction and find a road. I had a compass, it made things easier. The point Im making is that it was the map, albeit in my head, that got me un-lost. I found my camp and had a nice rest of the day. Moreover, being familiar with an area is equally important. Being prepared is more than dreaming. If a plan includes going to a certain place the plan is worthless without one actually going there before the need arises. I respect the folks here at ZDSW because they are doer's not just talkers. I can respect a person who says "Oh that is a neat idea." and then tries it. We can only snicker and shake our heads at the "dudes" who grab a GPS and get lost. Do you find this valuable? |
John_234 |
2. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Dec 31 2011, 6:54 PM EST
I think that GPS is a very good thing that is a great gift from mature technology, but it's not reliable enough that we can completely ignore fieldcraft.Sure, it should be used when the satellites are up. Milk all the advantage you can out of it, so you can pass precious hours spent on maps and cover more ground. Do you find this valuable? |
renet76 |
3. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Dec 31 2011, 9:13 PM EST
At this point in time i use GPS quite a lot but the reason i use it is not for navigation as such but for the purpose of plotting way points along routes through the wilderness.I then upload the data on to my PC to make hard copies to use as an overlay on an actual map It just makes it easy for plotting a waypoint of interest along a route rather then spending the time manually doing it with a map and compass. Say i am hiking through the forest or driving a long an old forest road and i see something of interest like an old abandoned house or a water source the 1st thing i do is log it on my GPS then take some photos of the location then record some verbal comments on a recorder like " Old stone house no roof 2 out buildings remains of stone fence " All of this is then made in to a file on my PC and then printed off then laminated. So i have a topographical map for a zones with waypoints noted on it and the printed off files. Its a bit of work but when every thing shuts down it will be handy to have such detailed information on hand 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Zee-Man |
4. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Dec 31 2011, 9:23 PM EST
@ RenetSuper! I have been thinking about laminating info printouts. Like I was saying, preparation is more than dreaming. You are out there making the GPS work. The OP seems to be asking about the mindless zombies-to-be though. I would hope that folks on ZDSW would be proficient with map and compass along with GPS. As John234 alludes, the satellites (or even cell towers - my G'zone uses cell tower triangulation) will not always be available. Do you find this valuable? |
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renet76 |
5. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Dec 31 2011, 9:33 PM EST
"@ Renetyeah its a bit sad there have been a few people that have become hopelessly lost using GPS for some reason they seem to think it will guide them out of the woods just like the one in their car does in the city Unless you actually have something to reference it to then its not much use The long term plan for the data i am gathering is to make a detailed map reference book for all the members in my group to use to get to safety in the event of a large scale disaster Another member of my group who has botany As a hobby is using the information i have gathered to go into the Field and then log all the edible plants in the location and taking photos of them and making a detailed description of them and so on so it can be added to the maps 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
epic_epicness |
6. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Dec 31 2011, 9:53 PM EST
"yeah its a bit sad there have been a few people that have become hopelessly lost using GPS for some reason they seem to think it will guide them out of the woods just like the one in their car does in the citythe US Army has a bad habit of scrambling civilian and foreign military GPS signals during conflicts. The ability to manipulate a system like this makes the system completely unreliable. couple that with the massive power consumption of the units and what you are left with in an emergency is a 1 time use brick for breaking windows. I'll stick with my map/compass/protractor combo. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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renet76 |
7. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Dec 31 2011, 10:21 PM EST
"the US Army has a bad habit of scrambling civilian and foreign military GPS signals during conflicts. The ability to manipulate a system like this makes the system completely unreliable. couple that with the massive power consumption of the units and what you are left with in an emergency is a 1 time use brick for breaking windows.Hence the reason all the information is being transfered onto a physical hard copy topographical maps with notations and way points so even if gps is down its is still viable information to be used by people the map will work like this a blue mark refers to water supply a green mark refers to food supply a yellow mark refers to useful resources a orange mark refers to shelter of some form each mark will have a designation number such as W12..A then all you do is look it up on the reference sheet as to what it is i.e W12.A= water supply, small spring no farms of factories up stream , checked in summer months still flowing well or S117. B + Shelter building, Stone house ruins has walls in tact no doors low fence around the outside no food or water nearby So if you can use a compass and read a map you would be fine as you would have logged locations to head to and with the reference chart you can decide on the go where to head to next depending on your needs Do you find this valuable? |
JunkCollector |
8. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Dec 31 2011, 10:24 PM EST
I have been considering buying a GPS, even if I do I will still keep at least 2 compasses and a map with me. I would probably be like Monk and have to have a compass to check my compass, a third compass to check the second, and a fourth to check the third compass. I have 3 compasses on or in my BOB right now. The main problem I have with GPS's are the need for batteries, although I already have to carry extra batteries for my flash light, radio, and C.B.. After a while they will all be out of batteries and of little use anyway. Do you find this valuable? |
FrankLeeDeRainged |
9. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Jan 1 2012, 9:10 AM EST
Of all our tech Sat-nav GPS would fare the best in the short Zepoc term. The satellites will sit up there clicking their time signals out long after the rest of the world has gone to hell, But (you knew it was coming) The satellites solar panels will degrade, some will fall to micrometeorites and when the next solar flare happens with no techies to put them into sleep mode or maintain their orbits they will fail.Recommend using GPS to escape from SHTF then drop it when the batteries run out. _ Do you find this valuable? |
BigLoki |
10. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Jan 1 2012, 9:33 AM EST
I have a small hand held GPS. I like it just fine. It currently resides in my BOB, I have a means to recharge it also in there. Aside from that, I have many maps, a compass, and know how to use them.I don't think a GPS is a replacement for maps, and the knowledge to use them. I DO however think that it is a valuable little piece of technology. I think it would be helpful for as long as it is working. When it's not, then we're back to the maps, no big deal to me. Do you find this valuable? |
Oakspar77777 |
11. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Jan 1 2012, 10:33 AM EST
A Handheld GPS, with some practice and extra batteries makes sense in your BOB if its purpose is to get you to your BOL. My BOL is my home, so I know all the back roads and ROUND ABOUT ways to get there if the primary roads, secondary roads, and some of the tertiary roads are blocked.If, however, I was heading to Grandma's vacation cabin in the woods where I spent summers as a child, and I have only a vague notion of one way to get there, THEN a GPS makes perfect sense. I want/need multiple routes there, the GPS provides. Once I am there, then I can throw the darn thing away, because I need to become confident with the landmarks and surroundings which will never happen if I am walking around staring at a screen. Do you find this valuable? |
actionavenue |
12. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Jan 1 2012, 11:16 AM EST
Yes, I have to agree. GPS is a fine tool, but it should replace field training, instincts and map reading. And to be honest, a person has to be picky in choosing a good GPS anyway. For fun, my wife and I participate in geo caching. For those of you who might be unaware of what this is, simply put, it is like a large scale scavenger hunt and caches could be hidden anyway locally or nationwide and one of the tools recommended for this happens to be GPS. Well, I bought her a Garmin Dakota and it was not what I would call accurate and clouds really messed with the satellite signal. Then we upgraded to an Garmin Oregon 450 on the recommendation of a friend and so far, so good. That being said, it's still not a substitute for skilled human knowledge, as with a lot of technology.
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epic_epicness |
13. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Jan 1 2012, 1:17 PM EST
"Yes, I have to agree. GPS is a fine tool, but it should replace field training, "I think you meant *Should Not* right? Do you find this valuable? |
nightcreeper78 |
14. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Jan 3 2012, 6:53 PM EST
A gps is a fine tool as long as a person knows how and when to use it. I personally prefer to use one in conjunction with a topo, protractor, and a compass for backup. Too many people spend their time starring at the screen while they're walking instead of paying attention to where they step. A gps will not tell you where mine shafts and cliffs are precisely located, but a map will. An aerial photo with a stereoscope is a big help as well. To get the most out of your gps wait until NASA sends something up into space, they boost the sat signal enormously. I have locked onto 18-19 sats at one time and when this happens, my gps becomes insanely accurate.
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Uzzgub |
15. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Jan 4 2012, 9:37 AM EST
All of the new smart phones now come with a GPS system built in, granted they arnt all that great but they are good enough to have with you for when SHTF, and i for one wont be ditching it when im at my fort, because it will still be useful with its camera, preloaded movies and music. So all you need to add is a solar charger and you phone will become a usefull tool, doubly if you have a pdf reader on it with some manuals preloadedBut that dosnt mean that you shouldnt also have the compass and map as well as the skills to use them. As that is more usefull come zday then any amount of gizmo's and gadgets will be. @renet76 that sounds like an awsum set up, maps like that will be the best thing to own post zday (other then food and water) Do you find this valuable? |
sfjase |
16. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Jan 14 2012, 10:47 AM EST
use one sparingly i use one on my smartphone but i still have a u.s. atlas and a compass in my vehicles. know how to use yours you never know when as others have pointed out that the gps goes down rather it be lack of maintenance or sattelite failure... also study the different types of maps rather it be topographical, road/atlas, and so on.
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MattLew |
17. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Jan 25 2012, 11:12 AM EST
the GPS is just a tool. like all tools it is not to be trusted exclusively. the military does not scramble the signal as much as they used to due to the dependence the federal government has placed on GPS for safety of life across the board. WAAS keeps them more accurate. HOWEVER without proper maintenance on a regular basis the system will degrade as mentioned above. fortunately such controls can be maintained from the doomsday shelters because the government has also placed all it's faith in the gps system to navigate it's vehicles, ships, aircraft, and cruise missiles. as long as one of those shelters survives the system will be maintained. this does not mean OUR information is accurate.I have an older marine handheld GPS, so it was not designed for easy data updates that despite WAAS (should have ~30' accuracy) is now inaccurate by nearly 70' following the earthquakes in haitti, peru, and japan. my old garmin automotive GPS was even wrse due to a program "feature" that estimated where you SHOULD be according to the map and if I went off roading on a trail that paralleled a road, it would assume I was actually on that road several hundred feet away. it also assumed that a bridge was several hundred feet from where it was actually built because the database was inaccurate.this beings us to compasses: with the magnetic pole drifting, the compass becomes less accurate as anything more than a frame of reference. it can not be trusted to safely navigate you from one part of the country to another on it's own. (unless of course you know how to use and calibrate it as this has to be done at regular intervals on a cross country trip) Radio navigation aids will depend on how long they are maintained and continue to receive power, this includes the beacons that augment GPS to create WAAS. Even Celestial navigation has drift that if you have the tables, you can work with. Do you find this valuable? |
White76Knight |
18. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
Jan 25 2012, 10:36 PM EST
"the GPS is just a tool. like all tools it is not to be trusted exclusively... this does not mean OUR information is accurate.I have an older marine handheld GPS, so it was not designed for easy data updates that despite WAAS (should have ~30' accuracy) is now inaccurate by nearly 70' following the earthquakes in haitti, peru, and japan. my old garmin automotive GPS was even wrse due to a program "feature" that estimated where you SHOULD be according to the map and if I went off roading on a trail that paralleled a road, it would assume I was actually on that road several hundred feet away. it also assumed that a bridge was several hundred feet from where it was actually built because the database was inaccurate.LOL - Good to know that things can be relied on. Do you find this valuable? |
Zombiestomper |
19. RE: GPS a good thing or not?
May 21 2012, 1:42 AM EDT
GPS devices are (for the most part) a great addition to any bug-out-bag.Despite the fact that every vehicle in Iraq had a PLGR/DGGR (GPS) device in it, I kept a Garmin Rhino 120 in my vehicle B.O.B. (with extra AA batteries) I highly recommend the Garmin Rhino series because it mates the GPS with an FM/SW hand radio, and even allows an encrypted friends list that allows you to see the location of your friends on the map display, handy thing when you need to co-ordinate ambushes,assaults or patrols. Do you find this valuable? |
