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Discussion: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage...

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StrykerPez	The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Jan 19 2012, 12:23 AM EST The Romans figured it out (sorta)... Can you? We've already discussed getting clean water. Now, how would you keep a post Z-day survivor colony free from disease as your group of people generates waste... and lots of it. Where do you go to the bathroom? Where do you dispose of trash and food waste? And where do you dispose of bodies? Post reply 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: None
SGTGerman	1. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Jan 19 2012, 5:09 AM EST Build a block of toilets away from everything else. All waste goes into a barrel of which the contents is either burned or buried - until a sewer system is set up. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
IrishHitman	2. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Jan 19 2012, 5:14 AM EST Water and waste was actually a big omission from the latest city scenario actually.. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Zee-Man	3. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Jan 19 2012, 8:41 PM EST \| Post edited: Jan 19 2012, 8:43 PM EST For an established colony I would be steering toward a methane digester. Simply put, it is a large tank that hold the waste while bacteria convert it to methane (aka natural gas). While this would be a project that requires alot of labor and maintenance it yields fuel. As a by-product, the digested waste is excellent fertilizer. As an added feature, the digester can be used as a "bio-thermal" generator helping to heat a public building. The idea for this application comes from Lucifer's Hammer by Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven. Methane digesters are not new ideas. Alot of exploration with these was done in the 1970s. Down on the Farm video Running a Small Engine video On a LARGER scale video A Diagram of a Household plant Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
JunkCollector	4. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Jan 19 2012, 9:00 PM EST As for sewage I was thinking about several septic tanks. For food waste I would just feed that to the pigs, they will eat anything even the dead (as long as they are not infected). Infected bodies get thrown in a pit, burnt, and covered over. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Oakspar77777	5. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Jan 21 2012, 12:43 PM EST Anyone who is in a house with septic lines can continue to use them so long as you continue to supply enough water to keep the system working. Fill up the top of the toliet and it will flush into the lines by gravety as it alwasy has. This is true for any house not on public sewers. If you are in an area without septic lines or sufficient water to maintain flushing toliets, you have several options. A 5 gallon painters bucket is easy enough to squat over (and you can even set it up with a seat from a toilet easily enough). Keep a second bucket next to it with loose soil and you can cover up the waste. These buckts can be dumped onto any compost heap - just make sure it has six months to cure before you spread that compost onto your garden. You can always takes these buckets far enough from your community and dump them in the woods as well. A good set of compost piles will do much to help you turn waste into usable soil. Of course food waste can be used to feed chickens, pigs, or create bait stations for hunting raccon or bear. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
CallsignPyro	6. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Jan 21 2012, 5:18 PM EST For the dead it's rather easy. Make a pyre & burn them, food waste can be made into compost, bathrooms can be dug holes in the ground or make an out house with lines dug going down hill away from BOL. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	7. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Jan 21 2012, 7:59 PM EST Sewage can be recycled into fertilizer. Most will find it unpleasant, but it can be done. The best route is to compost the waste, then use it to fertilise a field planted with Comfrey that you then plough and plant the following year. The composting eliminates most pathogens, and the Comfrey will lock up any heavy metals that build up in the waste. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Zee-Man	8. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Jan 21 2012, 8:55 PM EST \| Post edited: Jan 21 2012, 9:28 PM EST Is that years crop of Comfrey useable? As a broad use medicinal herb, I would hate to lose a bunch of it. Side question: How much plutonium isotopes and uranium do we excrete really? Or are we talking about lead, mercury, gold, zinc and other metals with some weight? After all, the term heavy metal is a very broad and non-specific term. Some consider it to include transition metals, some limit it to the lanthanide and actinide series. Some exclude group 12. Some are really talking about toxic metals. Many of the metals are not toxic in themselves but their compounds are toxic. Take mercury for instance, when pure mercury is non-toxic, but its oxide are quite toxic. There are other metals that some consider toxic but in general definition are not. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	9. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Jan 21 2012, 9:25 PM EST "Is that years crop of Comfrey useable? As a broad use medicinal herb, I would hate to lose a bunch of it. Side question: How much plutonium isotopes and uranium do we excrete really? Or are we talking about lead, mercury, gold, zinc and other metals with some weight? " Useable? Yes. Whilst it is true that there are certain pathogens that can be caught from human fertilizer, they mostly breed and travel in the air. Burying the manure and composting reduce all these risks. Heavy metals include copper, zinc, nickel, iron and such. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
whitefang10	10. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Feb 9 2012, 5:17 AM EST \| Post edited: Feb 9 2012, 5:17 AM EST Our retreat is already off grid, and not connected to to any sewage system. Whether the septic tank we have now could cope with the extra pressure from living 24/7. As for other trash, apart from bury, dump in the bush or burn nothing else to do with it. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
StrykerPez	11. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Feb 9 2012, 5:59 AM EST \| Post edited: Feb 9 2012, 5:59 AM EST An easy way to ensure your septic tank survives the added demand of 24-7 living is to route some drains into a separate grey-water system. Things like sinks and showers can be drained straight onto the ground or used to water trees and hedges (not veggies). This keeps your septic tank available for poo. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
AlphaOneFour	12. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Feb 9 2012, 12:47 PM EST If I had the means, and was starting a colony, I would rig up several septic tanks to feed into several seperate digesters, which would filll storage tanks, which would then feed gas to generators to give electricity to the colony. This would enable there to be toilets in buildings, as long as they are plumbed correctly, and would avoid the problem of being vulnerable while travelling to an outside toilet. As I live in the UK, having an outside toilet in winter likely means that it won't flush due to ice, and in summer the heat could exacerbate the smell. I would use several seperate biogas generators for several reasons: 1. Once the first is full, the second can be started on, thus maximising gas generation; 2. There would be no overflow problems, as long as the rate of waste in and gas out is carefully controlled; 3. Maintenance can be performed on a generator without affecting the colony unduly; 4. If we are the subject of an attack, then it is harder to damage our infrastructure, similar to armies having lots of munitions dumps; 5. The overall potential generation of gas is greater with more generators; As an aside, I would also try to build a system for venting excess gas from each digester-storage tank individually to prevent high gas pressure damaging the system. The generators could also power a water pumping/filtering system to give drinking water. This, when coupled with the grey water system for flushing toilets I would use would mean that there should be little problem with human excrement in the colony. Waste food would either go into a compost bin or into the digester, and be used to either grow crops or to power the colony. Metal waste would either be recycled, or melted down into ingots for storage until such time as it can be used. -Continued- Post reply Do you find this valuable?
AlphaOneFour	13. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Feb 9 2012, 12:51 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 9 2012, 12:53 PM EST -Continued- Bodies would be dispensed of in a high-temperature furnace, and all other waste would be dealt with using a lower-temperature incinerator, which would also heat water for the colony. It is likely that in my colony, there will be multiples of all necessary machines, as there is nothing quite like the good kind of redundancy to keep a colony going. Of course, a store of petrol/diesel/fuel oil would also be favourable, and would likely be the fuel for the cremator. The gas from the digesters could be used to heat water when the incinerator is not in use. Edit: Yes, I have given this a fair amount of thought. To me, it's just part of living in a post-apocalyptic world, and planning ahead never hurts. I have even taken note of where I can get septic tanks and materials for the digesters in my area (I swear I'm not weird) Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Frag-12	14. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Feb 9 2012, 1:04 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 9 2012, 1:04 PM EST I am currently focusing on methane digester, composting waste (including human), using reusable materials, gray water separation, and a urine diversion\dehydrator. Toilets will either be on the methane, or composting, or both system. Either men and woman's urinals will be used or have urine diversion in the composting toilets which will feed into the urinal dehydration system. Too much liquid is bad for composting. As for human waste being unsafe, this may change especially after you start eating food you harvest or farm. Animal waste can be either used for composting or methane digester. Showers and sinks will be gray water. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
zombie0human156	15. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Feb 9 2012, 1:05 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 9 2012, 1:05 PM EST make a line of out houses. before putting the outhouse on top of the hole line the hole with clay or lime stone. then place the out house on top. The hole must be deep if you want It to last. But when the hole gets full the you must dig another hole. cover the old out house hole with the dirt from the new out house hole. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Frag-12	16. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Feb 9 2012, 1:08 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 9 2012, 1:08 PM EST You know the real question is, how will you deal with a corpse in an underground shelter? Surface is easy, forced underground living and disposal is more challenging. I am only talking about bodies because waste can be processed the same way as it is on the surface. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Frag-12	17. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Feb 9 2012, 1:13 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 9 2012, 1:13 PM EST Only problem with outhouses is exposure. In the horror and western flicks, the first person to always die was the poor schmuck taking a dump in the out house ... LOL I even heard of someone being bitten by a Black Widow on the rear... lol Post reply Do you find this valuable?
zombie0human156	18. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Feb 9 2012, 1:21 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 9 2012, 1:21 PM EST "I even heard of someone being bitten by a Black Widow on the rear... lol " yes MY great uncle was one of those. But the outhouse must be in the combond or right next to it so the it is watched over a little. It is not like you are going to have the outhouse a mile way from your bol Post reply Do you find this valuable?
AlphaOneFour	19. RE: The Nastier Things: Sewage and Garbage... Feb 9 2012, 1:44 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 9 2012, 1:44 PM EST In an underground shelter, I will likely have tried to build an incinerator anyway, and this will link to the surface via a flue for the toxic waste gases. That would be used to dispose of bodies. Of course, this sounds cold and sadistic, which I am not, but maybe cutting the head off a person who died of natural causes would be sensible, to be on the safe side. In tough times, pragmatism takes precedence, and I know that if it was one of my friends/family I would be annoyed if I was told "well, they're dead, but we're still going to cut their head off", but they would not have to take part in the proceedings, and we could still hold a funeral for them, where the body and head are in the same box (which would then be burned). Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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