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shadowmancer |
Building a Colony
Jan 24 2012, 5:32 PM EST
There are quite a few references to building colonies. I am curious to see what people think would go into making a good settlement. So here’s the challenge.The zombie hoards have receded now it’s time to rebuild. What would make a good settlement? What’s the Location? How will you handle defence? Secure food and water? What will you build with what materials and how will you source them? How will you acquire people? Anything really in the grand art of colony creation - have fun! Do you find this valuable?
Keyword tags:
colony
construction
defence
fortifications
ideas
survival
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StrykerPez |
1. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 24 2012, 7:34 PM EST
If you want the best colony plan ever, go see PedroAsani. Besides something like his fortified island retreat, I think most people will simply "bunker down" with their group wherever they find safe haven. If you have a Bug Out Location in a remote mountain area, and you and your group manage to hold out against zombies and raiders throughout the entire panic and now the horde is subsiding... why leave? Nope, you're going to stay there, continue to secure your fortifications, and wait. Eventually other survivors will find you and you will need to expand. At this point you will only establish small outlying farmhouses clustered among the fields surrounding your stronghold. You won't likely see a zombie at this point, but to ensure the farmers are safe, your guard will post at all entrances to your land (mountain passes, trails, etc) If there IS an attack that the security force cannot deal with, all your citizens would fall back to the main compound that served well in the past to protect you. You might lose some farmland or houses, but no lives or vital supplies. This is the way they did it in the days of castles. ____________________________ Now, if you've holed up in the city during the panic and survived by scavenging, you're likely in a big strong building, underground, or on the run. And you're running out of food... but at least the smell is going away a bit. You need to find farmland. By the time the horde begins to recede, you're going to have gotten really tired of spam and baked beans and fire roasted rat. So you'll head out to the wilderness. And probably join up with those guys I mentioned before with the mountain stronghold. You'll live in one of those farmhouses. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
mars22581 |
2. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 24 2012, 8:58 PM EST
I have done some math on this in studying sustainability. I can give more details if you need, but I found what works well is: A 2-mile wide hexagon with a 1-mile wide hexagon 'central park' in the middle. This provides enough housing and retail space for 12,000 people, 1,200 acres of farmland for food and 415 acres of park space for recreation. Each city street is 1/2 mile long, so you're never more then a 5-minute walk from whatever you need. The hexagon is a good shape because you can build a bunch of hexagons next to each other without any wasted space. Leave about 100 yards between them for pastureland to provide some eggs/chicken/wool/lamb chops/beef/milk/leather/gelatin for the population. It also has one of the best perimeter to area ratios, which saves you a lot of effort and material when building a perimeter fence. (If anyone is interested in hard numbers in terms of crops, population let me know.) 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
redcomrad |
3. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 24 2012, 11:44 PM EST
"There are quite a few references to building colonies. I am curious to see what people think would go into making a good settlement. "Dependends on what you want there are many geographic places that would be great for a colony ill name a few Mountain(s) Pro -Great for defending you can be like switzerland -access to raw mineral resources - fairly isolated Con -Weather extremes - diffucult to get contact with others if very rugged -transportation difficult -will leave you quite isolated from the outside Plains, grassland, flatland Pro -good farmland -plenty of space to expand - subject to good Immigration Cons -Easy for enemy's to see and invade you - generally will be subject to a lot of people(raiders, refugees, etc) Arid/Semi arid Pros - will allow you to go unnoticed - being invaded unlikely -zombies and people in general will be quite few Cons -scarce resources -high Competition -Temperature extremes Forest/Woodland Pros -plenty of resources -Great for hiding Cons -isolated - invasions likely from other groups Wetland Pros -heavy advantage to defenders - good resources -plenty of water Cons- -civilization difficult to rebuild - A lot of bugs and deadly animals - diseases Island Pros -Defensible - invasion unlikely - generally has good farmland Cons - if too small may not have alot of freshwater - You need boats either you need to bring or make them - leave isolated from mainland - you need to actually get there some how if your not already there There are many different environments that would be good to settle in it all depends on what your prepared for and personnel preference., 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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MattLew |
4. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 25 2012, 12:53 AM EST
mars, I am not knocking the hexagon idea... I rather like it for the most part, one flaw I am seeing is you are looking at 10 people per acre of farm land... a farmstead with infrastructural support needs a few acres minimum for a small family. I would want 5 acres for an algae pond to produce biofuel, if one is to raise livestock, one will need a couple pastures to support them so you can rotate usage. you will also need several acres for grain fields. now if small neighbor groups share livestock (especially dairy producers such as cows, oxen, goats, and sheep) to keep year round milk production you will need 3 cows, but that could produce 8-10 gallons of surplus milk per day...as for rebuilding... studying history, and stopping short of epic monument of a construct, I would have t say mote and bailey castle. this can be palisade wall or stonework. this serves as administrative center. as the group expands a village will grow around it.building concepts should migrate to self sustaining architecture. (geothermal HVAC, grey water recycling, composting blackwater systems, rain water catch basin, super-insulated structures, etc) 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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mars22581 |
5. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 25 2012, 2:31 AM EST
"mars, I am not knocking the hexagon idea... I rather like it for the most part, one flaw I am seeing is you are looking at 10 people per acre of farm land... "You are correct. Right now with industrial farming, we feed 8-10 people per acre. Of course, modern industrial agriculture has limitations. Livestock is a horrible use of land and calories. You can feed 10 people on the same land that feeds one cow. Also, most of our farmlandl is a barren sponge devoid of any nutrients until being sprayed by petroleum-based fertilizers every spring. However the major limit on modern farming is the machinery. Native Americans knew that planting Corn, beans and squash on the same land would mutually benefit all three crops, triple the harvest per acre, as well as maintain soil fertility. Our machines can't selectively harvest 3, or even 2 crops that way. They can't even produce silage for cattle feed out of the same wheat or corn stocks we harvest our grains from. This design allows for much better use of land. 1,860 acres total 200 acres for pasture land 1,200 acres for food crops and winter pasture 410 acres of recreational land 50 acres of homes business and public streets. By: -reduced animal byproducts to the FDA recommended levels. (About 25 head of cattle per 1000 people vs. the current 100). -Makes better use land through co-planting and grazing livestock on your field (in the fall and winter months) -and returning the nutrients from the harvest, back to the soil every year. (...You know what I mean by that...). And as long as we're on the topic of what to do with human waste, Simple Bio-reactors can produce copious amounts of Methane gas, and leave you with well-processed fertilizer as a byproduct! Do you find this valuable? |
legokung |
6. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 25 2012, 6:38 PM EST
Livestock is not a terrible use of land and calories if they graze areas where agriculture isn't suited. As they did before agricultural surplus became what you fed them. Livestock is actualy (in small scale) more economic and easier than farming crop. And in case of draught you can move Your herd, whilest you starve if Your sole foodsource is agral. And also; since pesticides and such Will be scarse your yield Will be verry bad comparing to an modern industrial farm. Why do you think ecologicaly grown veggies and such is so expensive?
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mars22581 |
7. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 25 2012, 7:38 PM EST
"Livestock is not a terrible use of land and calories if they graze areas where agriculture isn't suited. As they did before agricultural surplus became what you fed them. Livestock is actualy (in small scale) more economic and easier than farming crop. And in case of draught you can move Your herd, whilest you starve if Your sole foodsource is agral. And also; since pesticides and such Will be scarse your yield Will be verry bad comparing to an modern industrial farm. Why do you think ecologicaly grown veggies and such is so expensive?"That's a fair argument. Even if every plant in a 1000 mile radius dies, you can slaughter and eat your herd whether they are fully grown or not. Corn, does not offer you such flexibility. It has been argued however, that the way we grow our food is partly to blame for the ailments that afflict them. Growing thousands of acres of the same plant year after year lets different undesirable organisms that feed on these plants spread and gain a foothold (think, Irish Potato Famine). Also getting all our seed from just a few breeders lead to limited genetic diversity and increase susceptibility to some diseases. Heirloom varieties of corn for instance, have a nifty trick when dealing with this certain pest that eats its roots. It calls for help. Sends out a scent that signals little critters in the soil to come eat the root pest. Modern Hybrid corn has lost this ability, and so a pesticide is used, which kills all the beneficial organisms as well. For example, my garden (An 8 x 12 plot) has always been Heirloom variety and pesticide free. And the only pest I've ever had to deal with is a local raccoon making off with more then his fair share of tomatoes! :-) Do you find this valuable? |
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redcomrad |
8. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 25 2012, 11:31 PM EST
" And the only pest I've ever had to deal with is a local raccoon making off with more then his fair share of tomatoes! :-)"Silly Raccoon, LOL Do you find this valuable? |
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mars22581 |
9. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 26 2012, 9:29 PM EST
Ok, Gents.I got some graphics put together. I also found some old military forts that follow a similar design (not exactly, but you can see what I'm getting at). -Fort Carol http://image.wetpaint.com/image/1/obx6ZSd7L38PpfkcX0FYgw157468 -Fort Jefferson http://image.wetpaint.com/image/1/ttMrfvLpZk9okcW7LMMj-A1061968 -The Colony http://image.wetpaint.com/image/1/nN6PG5qkH9B5s6WDKsaq8w158269 Per the discussion so far: A two-mile wide hexagon (1663 acres) Homes, Schools and Business’s for 12,000 people (max). Six 200-acre farms. A ~410-acre 'central park' for recreation/farming augmentation. All residential streets are 1/2 mile long (about a 5 minute walk) to reduce dependence on cars and fossil fuels. Livestock is kept in the space between the cities and un-buildable/non-agricultural lands. Also, Wells, Rainwater Cisterns and any natural bodies of water that can be taken advantage of in the event of drought. (Both per LegoKung's post) Now, what should we grow? Wheat, corn and potatoes is where I would start. Also medicinals and plants to make tools and chemicals? Please tare this apart! Let me know any flaws you can think of… Do you find this valuable? |
Zee-Man |
10. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 27 2012, 1:23 AM EST
Where does the industry go? Blacksmith, smelter, tanner, millenary. How about energy generation? Mills: hydro, wind, solar, animal And waste management? Sewage (grey and/or black), garbage, trash.Do you find this valuable? |
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mars22581 |
11. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 27 2012, 2:50 AM EST
"Where does the industry go? Blacksmith, smelter, tanner, millenary. How about energy generation? Mills: hydro, wind, solar, animal And waste management? Sewage (grey and/or black), garbage, trash.Good points. I see 'main street' (The road that wraps around the 'central park') as the center of industry and business. Being that each cities population will max out at 12,000, you'll never need GIANT factories turning out products. Smelting I don't think will be necessary either. But certainly a refinery to melt down and recycle metal left lying around after the fall. Power, I would go with whatever wind and solar we can scrounge up and bring back. Instead of a centralized grid, each house and business should be able to generate most of what they need that way. To store power to be used later (after batteries have gone the way of the dinosaur) How do you feel about a gravity fed water turbine? You pump water up into a tower or upper floor of your house, attached by hose to an electric turbine at ground level. For waste, I doubt you'd be producing anything that isn't recyclable or biodegradable (i.e., no synthetics or petroleum products). Grey water can be recycled and/or used for irrigation, and 'black' water and animal waste fed into composting reactors. These are basically tanks with septic system bacteria. (Again, build these discreetly instead of a central system, so one damaged unit doesn’t knock out the whole city). They produce Methane gas, which can be used for some modified vehicles, heating, cooking... and the reactor byproduct can be used to re-fertilize your fields. Do you find this valuable? |
Filadog |
12. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 27 2012, 7:37 AM EST
"There are quite a few references to building colonies. I am curious to see what people think would go into making a good settlement. So here’s the challenge.I think the entire idea of having large colonies is just fantasy talk, only slightly more believeable and probable then talk of floating castles and dragons Sure it's easy to set down and write stuff like : I'll have a colony 2 miles across with a fence and wide streets yad yad yada" but how could you realisticaly ever do it? Sure you can type about planting so many acres of food to feed all your people but in the real world how would you do it? Do you have the equipment, the know how and everything else you need to be able to do this. More important what do you plan on feeding all these people while you wait for your crops to come in Why do you think that all these people would get along so well and listen to you or some other leader I could see small groups of maybe 10 or 12 people banding together, more like an extended family then a colony. With so many abandoned buildings I doubt much building would be done but rather just squatting in existing ones Maybe eventually some small scale farming could be done but nothing on a large scale Do you find this valuable? |
timberrattler |
13. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 27 2012, 8:07 AM EST
Once things had died down I'd probably move to the suburbs, find about four brick or stone, two-story high houses in a square and fence them in with two rows of chainlink about 10 ft apart with a backfill of busted brick and gravel.I'd take advantage of any nearby parks and harvest the firewood I need from there, travel into the city to scavenge and take hunting parties into the country to hunt. I'd have lots of nearby homes to scrounge through for building supplies and good fertile ground to raise crops in (most folks in the 'burbs take good care of their lawns and fertilize often). When I've tapped all the local resources it'll be time to travel on to the next spot to set up shop. I'd strive to keep the population low, keep a low profile by minding my own business and I'd make it a point to NOT make a "grand" settlement. I couldn't handle that kind of responsibility. Do you find this valuable? |
sfjase |
14. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 27 2012, 9:43 AM EST
| Post edited: Jan 29 2012, 7:53 PM EST
i agree with a low population aspect due to less people equals less chance of infection due to disease and im not talking about the zombies but other simple diseases that could come back to be as bad as the plague. At most i'd have 40 people max a well balanced group with different specialties....
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brandon_a_boyer |
15. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 27 2012, 11:17 AM EST
It's interesting reading responses to these types of threads. People tend to comment less on them than they do on the weapons threads. Just an observation.I'm going to spend a few posts going over basic needs and how to best address them. I won't get into specifics as there is no definitive one-size fits all guide to this sort of thing. Do you find this valuable? |
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brandon_a_boyer |
16. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 27 2012, 11:42 AM EST
In 1943 Professor of Psychology Abraham Maslow proposed a hierarchy of human needs Shaped like a pyramid. Immediate needs are placed at the very bottom while less immediate ones are gradually higher up. For the sake of discussion I am just going to deal with the first four levels.Level 1 (physiological needs) These are the most basic needs that a Human being must fulfill to survive. They include: Breathing, food,water,sex (not sure if I agree with the placement), sleep, homeostasis, and excretion. Since these needs are the most vital they are the ones that the majority of your efforts should be aimed at fulfilling. Breathing : Typically on earth this isn't a problem. Although I will point out that anyone wanting a mountain stronghold is going to have some pretty rough headaches the first few weeks due to altitude sickness. Food: Most doctors agree that a healthy human can survive for up to 8 weeks without consuming food. However, during that time your health, mental, and physical abilities will rapidly deteriorate. Just to maintain your current body mass most people will need the following caloric intake: 2500 calories a day for men 2000 calories a day for women (2,500 in third trimester of pregnancy) 1800 calories a day for children aged 5-10 What does this mean? Well figures vary widely, but conservatively speaking, you'll need to farm an Acre of land nearly year-round to feed a family of four. That isn't even taking livestock requirements into account. That land needs to be carefully managed, worked, and harvested in order to survive. A good set of ideas i've found on this subject is the Open Source Ecology website. I think many of you will like the ideas they have there. http://opensourceecology.org/ Do you find this valuable? |
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mars22581 |
17. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 27 2012, 2:20 PM EST
| Post edited: Jan 27 2012, 2:28 PM EST
Filagod: I agree the prospect seems like a daunting amount of work, but we did manage to feed enormous populations AND build impressive structures before anything we would consider 'modern' technology. See: Egypt, Babylon, Rome, Machu Picchu... I certainly don’t expect to built this overnight. But with leftover canned foods and wild game, construction equipment before it rusts solid… a new society could be started from the ashes of the old, and slowly built by a few dozen people to start, and a steadily growing population as time goes on. Timberrattler: Squatting in existing structures would be a great starting point while you can still find cans of Spam laying around. But modern homes were designed for modern services. You simply won't be able to heat it with a wood fire, or flush the toilets for that matter. And though suburban areas do provide lawns and fields to start farming, it also provides homes for other squatters. Your average suburb simply isn't big enough to feed even a small percentage of the number of squatters you may end up sharing that area with. This will get worse as areas are exhausted and groups begin to congregate where resources still exist. Brandon: All good points, and I look forward to the rest of this pyramid. Except 3 or 4 weeks is the absolute maximum amount of time a healthy person can go without food, and that’s provided they have a very low level of physical exertion. And you’ll pretty much be useless after 2 weeks. sfjase: On another thread, we've deduced the minimum sustainable population (based on NASA research) lies somewhere between 80 and 160 people. (160 or more is preferred, as 40 males and 40 females would require extensive social engineering such as abandoning the concept of monogamous marriage…). Or... Your grand kids will all be blind, albino and retarded... But that falls under the guise of personal taste I suppose. lol Do you find this valuable? |
Oakspar77777 |
18. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 27 2012, 11:10 PM EST
Your best colony is going to be a spreading system of plantations. 20-40 people per plantation with the plantations spread about 1 mile apart each. 4 to 10 working plantations would give you a population that could still be unified and connected, but would be seperate enough to protect from outbreaks of disease, raider, or other catastrophic incident. Do you find this valuable? |
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Filadog |
19. RE: Building a Colony
Jan 28 2012, 5:17 AM EST
Sure ancient society's could produce enough food for their peoples but these were society's that devoloped over many hundreds of years and I believe probably flourished because they were based on a situation where the people had a surplus and not started after a catasophyAfter the fall of the Azetec empire a few Azetecs didn't get together and say " well you know we can clear this jungle and build a few big temples over there after we put up a few miles of fence" Realistically if the Zedpoc happened today how you going pull off this colony thing? How are you and all these people going to survive and do all this too. Do you have any idea what it would take to even put up a fence around a 2 mile wide settlement ? Having done a lot of fence work on a Horse farm I can tell you a bunch of people are not going to be doing it while they are trying to survive everything else Realistically I think a group of a few people will survive , in a few generations it will grow to a couple familys, then in maybe a hundred years a small village I think this was how it was historically. Do you find this valuable? |
