Location: null

Discussion: Shoot or Surrender

Category: Discussion Forum / General Discussion

Report thread
Watch thread
Share this

1 2 3 4 | Next

Filadog	Shoot or Surrender Feb 5 2012, 12:22 PM EST Its several years post Apoc, you and your family are still alive but are barely hanging on. Things is beyond desperate , you have seen things...and done things you never thought you would. You have seen people kill others just to eat them ! Few days ago you found a cache of food that a group hid, you took what you could carry back to your family and was the first meat they had in days. You know it was stupid but you went back to get some more, now you're sneaking away with some more when all at once you hear a shout..."Stop put the gun down", about 30 yds away a guy is standing pointing a rifle at you If you surrender they are sure to find the stolen food in your pack, you know what people do to food thieves in this world, maybe they will torture you into telling where your family and the rest of it is too. You are armed with a double 12 shotgun loaded with buckshot, you are right next to a big tree, maybe you can throw yourself behind it and shoot this guy before he shoots you. You have practiced this and you know even if he has his finger on the trigger a person reflex can be slow enough that you have a chance. You wonder why he hasn't shot already, maybe the gun isn't even loaded ! Lots of people with guns and no ammo, matter of fact you got your shotgun..and everything else he had from a guy you got the drop on and put it down when you pointed an empty 30 30 at him. Maybe he just wants to talk to you and see if he can help you.....From what you have seen thats sure not very likely..... Maybe he hasn't shot you because he wants to march you back to camp and butcher you there for dinner, you have seen that before So do you disarm and hand over your shotgun and trust a stranger not to harm you or do you take your chances and try to kill him ?...What would you do? Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: None
IrishHitman	1. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 5 2012, 12:47 PM EST If he hasn't shot at this point, he's an idiot or he wants you alive, so it's a bit of a hard choice. In this case, I'd probably shoot. If he wants to talk, shoving a gun in my direction isn't the best way to go about it, so his stupidity is responsible for any injuries he might receive from returning the compliment... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Sharkai	2. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 5 2012, 12:52 PM EST When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk. If he wants to talk, why would he be pointing a gun at you? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
zombie0human156	3. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 5 2012, 1:32 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 5 2012, 1:32 PM EST "Its several years post Apoc, you and your family are still alive but are barely hanging on. Things is beyond desperate , you have seen things...and done things you never thought you would. You have seen people kill others just to eat them ! Few days ago you found a cache of food that a group hid, you took what you could carry back to your family and was the first meat they had in days. You know it was stupid but you went back to get some more, now you're sneaking away with some more when all at once you hear a shout..."Stop put the gun down", about 30 yds away a guy is standing pointing a rifle at you If you surrender they are sure to find the stolen food in your pack, you know what people do to food thieves in this world, maybe they will torture you into telling where your family and the rest of it is too. You are armed with a double 12 shotgun loaded with buckshot, you are right next to a big tree, maybe you can throw yourself behind it and shoot this guy before he shoots you. You have practiced this and you know even if he has his finger on the trigger a person reflex can be slow enough that you have a chance. You wonder why he hasn't shot already, maybe the gun isn't even loaded ! Lots of people with guns and no ammo, matter of fact you got your shotgun..and everything else he had from a guy you got the drop on and put it down when you pointed an empty 30 30 at him. Maybe he just wants to talk to you and see if he can help you.....From what you have seen thats sure not very likely..... Maybe he hasn't shot you because he wants to march you back to camp and butcher you there for dinner, you have seen that before So do you disarm and hand over your shotgun and trust a stranger not to harm you or do you take your chances and try to kill him ?...What would you do? " is this looking on the other side of shoot or Capture? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
John_234	4. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 5 2012, 2:31 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 5 2012, 2:31 PM EST If the guy is of average reflexes, this is at night, and he's burdened with the food I gave him... I'd probably jump behind the tree and flee. Shoot if I have to. If I'm in a position where I'm stealing food that may leave to the starvation of another group, I don't think I'd care much about collateral damage. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
chitoryu12	5. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 5 2012, 9:17 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 5 2012, 9:17 PM EST I'd probably surrender. I know that I couldn't spin around and shoot him before he killed me, and he's got a good advantage in terms of weaponry (especially at this range). Getting captured is never good, but it might lead to my survival; trying to fight it out almost definitely won't. Not to mention that there's no way of knowing how many more gun barrels are pointing at me. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
timberrattler	6. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 5 2012, 9:31 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 5 2012, 9:31 PM EST I see where you're going with this. Sigh Duck, tuck, roll and put two loads of buckshot in his chest. Happy? When you set a scenario up with this kind of detail it lets the "real" sink in. I see where you're comin' from now. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Zee-Man	7. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 5 2012, 10:02 PM EST Since I don't know that he is alone and since he hasn't shot yet, I begin to back away, my weapon still in hand, and find out what the next dialog is. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
TreeLegs	8. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 5 2012, 10:39 PM EST Thanks Fila, I really apreciate the details in this one and I like the reverse from the other post we debated on. I would think if he wanted to shoot me and eat me he would've done so by now. I don't see it being a terrible option in trying to start a dialogue. Unless the meat you were stealing people meat, I don't think you would have to worry much about becoming a next meal. I know my family is in dire straits, but I would've preformed better observations of the group before trying to steal from them. If you see people being treated harshly, I'd avoid them all together. Hunger can kill, but they might just kill me quicker. The first trip in would've been a fact finding mission towards this goal primarily, the food was just a bonus. Obviously, the nature of the camp would speak for itself once I saw the interior. If I decided to surrender, I might try to barter with my skill set. If I can sneak inside their camp unnoticed twice, I have skills the camp lacks. The fact that I managed to make it this far surviving with my family so close to their camp without drawing attention would be another. Also, I bring another body and weapon to the group. Now if they were unsavory and I thought I could make the shot, well I might just have to. Though I expect a swift response from the other members that puts me and my family in danger and I will expect no mercy. It seems like my family might have a better chance if I just surrender and hope for the best. I'm worth nothing to my family dead. I just hope that they would be understanding of my position and could relate. If I don't well I've snuck out the camp once before, maybe I could do it again. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
JunkCollector	9. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 5 2012, 11:43 PM EST First: I would look away from the tree and yell shoot him Tom, this should make the guy with the rifle duck behind something himself, or give me more time to take cover. Second: I would assess the terrain for a way out that will give me the most cover and allow me to lead any pursuer away from my family. Third: Fire off one barrel at the armed man, this will cause him to take cover also so that I can make my run for it. Fourth: Run about a half a mile then take up a defensive position to check for someone following me. Reload empty barrel, if only one or two people follow me lay in wait, let them get close to make sure both shots count, and then scavenge their weapons and gear. Fifth: Deliver the food to my family. In a couple of days go back to the supply stash, and recon it from a distance to see if the pursuer was the only one who knew about the stash. If after a couple of hours, if no one shows themselves go and carry out as much as I can and use the hiding place for my own stash. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
chitoryu12	10. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 6 2012, 12:33 AM EST So the guy who's aiming at you clearly doesn't plan on simply murdering you. Why is everyone so interested in killing him immediately when it any sudden motions or threats will probably just lead to him shooting you in the back? He's already got his weapon aimed at you; one twitch, and you lose. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
toxic_shock	11. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 6 2012, 12:44 AM EST Fire once and run. Put him down if he pursues. If the guy with the rifle hasn't shot me yet, he most likely wants to get information from me once I surrender. I won't let myself be put in the position to possibly give up my family or group. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
John_234	12. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 6 2012, 12:46 AM EST "Thanks Fila, I really apreciate the details in this one and I like the reverse from the other post we debated on. " One pretty big difference, though is that the other situation is rather spontaneous, while this situation involves several assumptions of choice and attitudes that creates a bit of a different situation, IMO. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
TreeLegs	13. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 6 2012, 12:58 AM EST "One pretty big difference, though is that the other situation is rather spontaneous, while this situation involves several assumptions of choice and attitudes that creates a bit of a different situation, IMO." I still like both of them. They still have a real world feel. The crazy thing is I was put in a similar situation in the previous one. Almost opened up on some undercover SF guys waiting for an air drop outside the camp I was at. I enjoy seeing the reactions from those that participated in the first scenario. It seems like their answers are pretty similar from what they expressed previously. Some are still,"shoot first ask questions later" even with the scenario reversed. This is better than any sociology or psychology class ever lol. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	14. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 6 2012, 1:20 AM EST \| Post edited: Feb 6 2012, 1:22 AM EST "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk. If he wants to talk, why would he be pointing a gun at you?" But on that same note if he wanted to shoot you why not just shoot you? Why talk at all if you're armed and unaware of his presence? Why risk it? It would be stupid of him to yak around if he was going to shoot you anyway. I'd try to start a dialogue. He's got me. There are risks yes but way I see it if he wanted me dead he'd be shooting and I'd be bleeding. But he isn't. He's talking. Why is he giving away his freedom to line up a shot and shoot me dead in favor of warning me and risking a prolonged and resource-intensive conflict? He's either stupid or not in the mood to kill. So I'd talk and possibly attempt compromise. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
chitoryu12	15. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 6 2012, 2:28 AM EST \| Post edited: Feb 6 2012, 2:28 AM EST It really comes down to whether or not you think you have the reflexes to do something almost impossible. Let's look at everything that would need to happen for shooting this guy to be successful: 1. You must turn and bring your gun to bear faster than he can pull the trigger; he's 30 yards away, so you can't just fire from the hip blindly. 2. You must draw a bead on him with a double-barrel shotgun (not widely known for having excellent sights) after shouldering your weapon, once again before he manages to twitch one finger and end you. 3. You must then immediately take cover from anyone else aiming at you, who also need merely one twitch to blow you away. Let's say you duck behind the tree first. Now you've clearly indicated that you don't intend to surrender, at which point at least one person is now actively attempting to kill you. Once again, you don't know if there's anyone else backing him up hidden in the brush. For all you know, one might have already flanked you. His weapon has greater range than yours and will probably hit harder at 30 yards than a standard buckshot load. He probably has more than two shots, while you've got two before you're a sitting duck. Why on Earth is attempting to surrender and negotiate MORE dangerous than dealing with all of this? Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Filadog	16. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 6 2012, 8:52 AM EST \| Post edited: Feb 6 2012, 8:52 AM EST I think even today there has been many cases where a person killed somebody that they talked into giving up their gun first. Giving up your weapon to an armed person that has the drop on you is certainly no gurantee that they still won't kill you I believe police are trained to never do this. and several well known cases where police have been killed after surrendering their guns I don't think it unreasonable to believe you would be killed in this scenario if you gave up your gun Human reflexes are such that I think it is far from a given that you will be able to hit a person that suddenly throws themselves behind a tree they are standing by even if you are aiming at them. I think at this range more likely that you would miss. At my range we have a set of steel targets that can be reset by pulling a string. One day while shooting with friends we thought it would be interesting to try to hit the target as the other person pulled the string which then pulled the target down What we found out was that even with the sights on the target it was almost impossiable to hit it befor it swung down out of sight when you didn't know when it was going to happen By the time you saw it move, andit registered in your brain and you pulled the trigger the target was not there anymore I think a person having a gun held on them in a case like this would have a good chance of not being shot if he could throw himself behind cover like a tree 12 ga. buckshot is probably at it's most effective at around 30 yards, most guns and loads would have a pattern with a spread of 2 ft or so. I think it not having to be amied as precisely as a rifle gives the shotgun a big advantage in a case like this Far from a sure thing but I think with some decisive action and maybe a bit of luck the guy with the shotgun would be able to take out the person holding the rifle on him. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
TreeLegs	17. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 6 2012, 9:23 AM EST \| Post edited: Feb 6 2012, 9:23 AM EST If I was the guy with the rifle, I'd figure that you'd take cover with the tree so I'm not so focused on you but where you are probably going to be headed. With the items on your back and the fact that you don't have your weapon already staged, you have a lot of things to do that are going to give me a hint as to your intentions. Also, my first shot doesn't have to kill you, just disable you and finish you off with the second. I mean if you think you can move to the tree and get a shooting position before I can track you and pull my finger back an inch the go for it. This is why I train for reflexive shooting with every weapon I own. Let me know how the sky looks while you're laying on you back bleeding. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	18. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 6 2012, 10:55 AM EST "I think even today there has been many cases where a person killed somebody that they talked into giving up their gun first. Giving up your weapon to an armed person that has the drop on you is certainly no gurantee that they still won't kill you " Okay so are my odds better fighting against an unknown group of assailants with several potential shot angles and (let's not forget) a bead on me while my back is turned? It's about chances. I may die if I give up my gun but I have an even higher chance of dying if I don't. This isn't Hollywood so the Take Em All With Me strategy is somewhat less than dandy. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Filadog	19. RE: Shoot or Surrender Feb 6 2012, 11:43 AM EST "Okay so are my odds better fighting against an unknown group of assailants with several potential shot angles and (let's not forget) a bead on me while my back is turned? It's about chances. I may die if I give up my gun but I have an even higher chance of dying if I don't. This isn't Hollywood so the Take Em All With Me strategy is somewhat less than dandy." Yes but you have a team armed with a Machine Gun backing you up...what? thats not in my Scenario? lol...neither is that you are fighting against a group of assailants that have a bead on your back...don't know where you got any of that ! Again...you hear someone shout ' Stop put the gun down" and you see ONE guy with a gun pointing it at you from 30 yards away......No evidence of a group of guys ready to shoot you So if you looked up and saw that the guy that challenged you didn't even have a gun would you still hand your shotgun over to him?..You know maybe the rest of the guys you couldn't see could be armed with a snper rifles ready to shoot you if you don't I don't know maybe it is a good ideal to trust your life to a stranger that you have stolen food from and is now threatening you with a rifle. Maybe there is a tactical advantage to give up your weapon to this person even if you don't even know if his gun is loaded I think in the post Apoc world it will probably in most cases it would not be to good to trust your life to strangers especially ones holding a gun on you and that you have stolen food from Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?

1 2 3 4 | Next

JavaScript must be enabled in order for you to contribute to this site.
To start contributing, enable JavaScript by changing your browser options, then try again.

Home