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11ACRBlackhorse
11ACRBlackhorse
20. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 10:16 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 10:19 AM EST
"Or you live in a country where firearms are not that common and actually not advertising that you have one is more beneficial than waving it around. Where i work there are 480 people employed and 479 of them do not have a handgun and only 20 people there actually have a firearms license
My point is its more probable i will be facing knives then firearms "
When SHTF you dont think people will be robbed and or killed for guns. And criminals already have more guns than you think. Plus all those illegal gun stashes or stock piles people have that arent known or legal.
Again you are assuming a whole lot when a SHTF scenario.
Plus LJ is the original on this and he is a US citizen in Texas so firearms ownership isnt a issue. That was what I was replying about.

But again you are assuming the criminals dont already have guns and or wont steal or aquire them once a SHTF scenario happens. I wouldnt trust my life or my families lives on they dont or wont.
Heck I plan on eventually having to defend against a full auto MG or assault weapon attack. Legality is real moot point in a SHTF scenario, you are just as dead if its legal or not.
But plan as you wish. It just sounds a little hopefull to me. I hope for the best but plan for the worst.
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LJ126
LJ126
21. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 11:01 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 11:04 AM EST
I'm actually not surprised I received resistance on this concept, and from the folks that it came from. That's cool, some folks can't (or won't) challenge their preconceptions and notions about what "survival" means in different environments and arenas, and don't understand that certain weapons suggest more than just their outward appearances and magazine capacity.

"When SHTF you dont think people will be robbed and or killed for guns."

EXACTLY. People will be out there looking for that easy target - and a lone guy with an AR-15 is an easy target. Why is that guy a target, even though he's apparently well-armed? Because he probably has other guns and possibly even other things stockpiled that a small criminal organization might need. His attackers will show up in force now because they know he's holding a good hand. If he's alone, or worse, half the time he's gone and his wife/kids are at home, his castle and everything in it is a happy meal. Do not underestimate the capabilities of the other team; if the "bad guys" are anything like me, they'll watch you for a few days, learn your rhythm, and hit you when you're taking a dump right after you wake up. Nobody is "100% go" every second,

The whole point is to keep a low profile so that folks out there looking for guns and other supplies don't notice you, and maybe ignore you, assigning you a "low priority" status. And if they do show up randomly, kicking in your front door, that's when you show them what you're really prepared for by getting that tactical rifle out.

As I said before, do not make the mistake of underestimating your would-be assailants. Not every BG is going to be the village idiot. If they are successful over the long term, it is because they are smart and capable. The School of Hard-Knocks cranks out some well-trained criminals.
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LJ126
LJ126
22. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 11:42 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 12:16 PM EST
Actually, let's all pretend we are members of a small gang hellbent on taking from other people. Would a lone 'prepper' not be the ideal target? He would to me. If I saw him traipsing about his property with a fill-in-the-blank tactical rifle, I would start to watch him, learn his routine, learn when and how he does certain things. Why? Because I know he might be a high-priority target if he's stocked up. And when he is least vulnerable, I'm going to show up in overwhelming force. Depending on what I've learned about the loner, I will attack accordingly. Hell, if I can't guarantee a win, I will toss a few bottles of gasoline through his front windows to flush him out into an ambush - that'll get the point that I'm not playing across, and surrendering might be a better choice than fighting back. If he refuses to move, I might throw a live molotov cocktail, and things will go "Waco." Even if I don't get anything out of it, I've removed what would likely be resistance in the future and I've only spent a few bottles of gasoline and bacon grease to do it.

That's what happens when you get noticed.

PS: There are bad guys out there that are better at doing it than I am. That is the importance of keeping a low profile when other folks can see what you do.
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11ACRBlackhorse
11ACRBlackhorse
23. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 11:45 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 11:45 AM EST
"I'm actually not surprised I received resistance on this concept, and from the folks that it came from. That's cool, some folks can't (or won't) challenge their preconceptions and notions about what "survival" means in different environments and arenas, and don't understand that certain weapons suggest more than just their outward appearances and magazine capacity.

"When SHTF you dont think people will be robbed and or killed for guns."

EXACTLY. People will be out there looking for that easy target - and a lone guy with an AR-15 is an easy target. Why is that guy a target, even though he's apparently well-armed? Because he probably has other guns and possibly even other things stockpiled that a small criminal organization might need. His attackers will show up in force now because they know he's holding a good hand. If he's alone, or worse, half the time he's gone and his wife/kids are at home, his castle and everything in it is a happy meal. Do not underestimate the capabilities of the other team; if the "bad guys" are anything like me, they'll watch you for a few days, learn your rhythm, and hit you when you're taking a dump right after you wake up. Nobody is "100% go" every second,

The whole point is to keep a low profile so that folks out there looking for guns and other supplies don't notice you, and maybe ignore you, assigning you a "low priority" status. And if they do show up randomly, kicking in your front door, that's when you show them what you're really prepared for by getting that tactical rifle out.

As I said before, do not make the mistake of underestimating your would-be assailants. Not every BG is going to be the village idiot. If they are successful over the long term, it is because they are smart and capable. The School of Hard-Knocks cranks out some well-trained criminals."
Wetpaint WTF
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JunkCollector
JunkCollector
24. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 11:57 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 11:57 AM EST
I carry concealed almost every day, but have never been approached to be robbed. Even after the Shift, I will carry concealed. If you are out flaunting that you have what others want someone will eventually try to take it. It doesn't take more than a punk to run up behind you and put a couple slugs or a knife in your back to take what you have.

That's why not showing that you have a lot is important today and after the Shift. When I go buying or selling I don't go wearing a suit and looking like I have money, I go wearing jeans and a t-shirt, along with my 9mm in my pocket. If you don't flaunt it, you will be less likely to need your gun in the first place.

After the Shift if you run around in TACTICOOL gear and carrying a fancy tacticool rifle, you will be a target for some one with little or nothing to run up behind you and stick a knife in your back while your alone. No gun will protect you then, so not standing out is the best way to stay safe, even if you have a lot.
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LJ126
LJ126
25. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 12:02 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 12:24 PM EST
"I think you can't really say any gun is the Best General Purpose survival firearmn, though probably the best candidate would be a .22 semi auto rifle, which is why you need several different guns so they can be used for different jobs that a survival firearm might be needed for"
@ Fildaog:

What other tasks would a .22LR semi-auto rifle provide for someone living in an urban environment or in town, and how is that any more beneficial than a handgun? Most of our members live in "built up" areas. There's essentially no animal worth shooting for food, most people don't have gardens so eliminating pests is probably not a realistic mission, and a full caliber semi-automatic handgun has more "stopping power" and typically higher magazine capacities than most semi-auto .22 rifles (most have 10 round factory magazines, where the standard 9mm is 15+) While .22's are quiet, one's neighbors will still hear it, and your neighbors might be whom you are keeping a low profile and not showing your true capability. If personal protection is the purpose for said .22 rifle, it is essentially impossible to conceal and while less awkward to carry than a battle rifle, it is a bigger hindrance and impediment than any handgun. And, then we're back to square one - a .22 rifle is more obvious to the outside than a concealed handgun and could attract attention to your holed-up position.

I only see two advantages of a .22 rifle over a defensive handgun for "in-town survival" - it's quiet and it's extremely inexpensive to stockpile ammo. While it's an excellent training tool, it's exactly that - a training tool. However, since the primary role of a firearm in a small town or city is self-defense, a .22LR rifle just doesn't fit the bill, as neither of those attributes win brownie points for self preservation. I think a .22LR handgun might be a better pick --- at least it's concealable.
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LJ126
LJ126
26. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 12:21 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 12:26 PM EST
"I carry concealed almost every day, but have never been approached to be robbed. Even after the Shift, I will carry concealed. If you are out flaunting that you have what others want someone will eventually try to take it. It doesn't take more than a punk to run up behind you and put a couple slugs or a knife in your back to take what you have.

That's why not showing that you have a lot is important today and after the Shift. When I go buying or selling I don't go wearing a suit and looking like I have money, I go wearing jeans and a t-shirt, along with my 9mm in my pocket. If you don't flaunt it, you will be less likely to need your gun in the first place.

After the Shift if you run around in TACTICOOL gear and carrying a fancy tacticool rifle, you will be a target for some one with little or nothing to run up behind you and stick a knife in your back while your alone. No gun will protect you then, so not standing out is the best way to stay safe, even if you have a lot. "
JC is absolutely right.

That brings up another point I want to reiterate: while random acts of violence happen, they are very rare (almost non-existent.) There is usually a motivating factor. It could be that you're wearing the wrong color shirt in the wrong neighborhood, or you're banging the wrong ex-boyfriend's chick, or you pissed off your wife/husband for the last time --- but SHTF, it's going to be because someone wants to take from you. It might be your home, your guns, your food and water, your women, or whatever else. Whatever it is, they want it. And they will kill you for it.

That tactical rifle does you no good if someone walks right up to you and shoots you in the head or raids your home while you're gone. They will get what they want if they want it bad enough.
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11ACRBlackhorse
11ACRBlackhorse
27. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 12:24 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 12:24 PM EST
Ok lets play your little criminals cant think past their tiny pen@s.

I lead four homies when we spot your crazy self doing what ever.
I take one homie with me and we (with weapons drawn and covering you) advance on the crazy white boy.
All the while the other two homies take seperate positions and watch for others. Be they your cover or other rival raiders.
If you so much as move wrong your shot dead. Cant have a throwing knife, star, or a compact putting holes in me or my homies. So you dont get a chance to draw your weapon.
At closer range we do see you are well fed and relatively clean and well taken care of. Now we want info after we get you to lay face down spread eagle. We will find that cherrished hidden gun. Then we ask you where your from. If no answers we cut you. If that draws fire from a covering gaurd then we will have fun.
Then you will disclose your BOL or die. We then wait for rescue by friends and family. Fallow them or ambush them and let one escape. So we can fallow to the BOL.

The only cure for you is to draw at the first sign of trouble and beat a haste retreat. Either way you are left with a peeshooter if it becomes a gun battle.
Now since at first hint of trouble the best action is to retreat I would rather have a carbine/shotgun/rifle at hand than a short ranged pistol. Even in the city shots of over 30yrds will be common unless in doors. Then a shotgun or pistol or SBR would fit the job.

You keep forgetting the bad guys dont need or care to have a reason to kill you. You are there and its a boring day. Instant fun.
Now having a visible gun or not will not stop them from fallowing you home and then terrorizing you for goodies.
You really dont think they will noticed you are cleaner, better fed, better dressed, not as haggard, and not as frieghtfull as everyone else.
You have lots of obvious give aways. So you must have supplies. Obvious
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LJ126
LJ126
28. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 12:36 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 12:42 PM EST
I admit, it might scare away *some* attackers by showing your game face. However, how much you wanna bet they talk about that "crazy white guy with the military rifle" to their boys? What if their boys aren't total p*ssies like the ones that ran away scared? What if they talk to their other worm friends and those guys start to pay attention to you? Now you're back to my scenario - noticed, and getting real close to sh!t outta luck.

In short, the virtue of stealthiness far outweighs the advantage of possibly scaring away those would be punks. Those punks might bring back bigger, tougher, better armed and trained friends. Or... they'll just shoot you in the head as you're getting into your car to leave. Problem solved, they win.

It's better to be totally ignored, or seen and written off, than to look like King Kong. I come from a part of town where being a big tough guy is an invitation to others to try their luck. Worst case scenario, they get the sh!t kicked outta them by the big guy and there's no loss to their machismo. However, if they win, they took down the giant. Folks will bite on that for peer respect alone, even though it's crazy. These same folks are who you are dealing with. They're not well-educated but they're definitely not stupid (having graduated with a PHD from the School of Hard Knocks) and are tougher than nails. Many have a lot of practice breaking and taking. I'd rather be unseen and ignored. Your situation might differ though.
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11ACRBlackhorse
11ACRBlackhorse
29. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 12:42 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 12:42 PM EST
"JC is absolutely right.

That brings up another point I want to reiterate: while random acts of violence happen, they are very rare (almost non-existent.) There is usually a motivating factor. It could be that you're wearing the wrong color shirt in the wrong neighborhood, or you're banging the wrong ex-boyfriend's chick, or you pissed off your wife/husband for the last time --- but SHTF, it's going to be because someone wants to take from you. It might be your home, your guns, your food, your women - whatever it is, they want it. And they will kill you for it.

That tactical rifle does you no good if someone walks right up to you and shoots you in the head or raids your home while you're gone. They will get what they want if they want it bad enough."
You guys are using pre-SHTF scenarios to justify a weapon in a SHTF or post-SHTF scenario.
People kill for the pleasure now. Check the killings in war torn countries. Every sick person alive will have all the fun they can manage before law and order returns or they get a bullet in the head.
You have gang bangers shooting people because they dont like their looks.
Whats to keep some guy from knifing your cleaner, better fed, cocky @ss for just what is in you pockets.

Again I dont really care what you carry or where you carry it. But you all keep this lone wolf stuff up and you wont last long enough to live past the SHTF to post-SHTF. Going lone ranger anywhere without any buddy is suicide. Just looking better fed, water, cleaned, and rested will put a target all over your @rse. And then you want to go strutting around by your lonesome as if your the second coming and have no fear. You will act a lot different with a concealled gun than with out one in a danger area. So you wont act as frieghtened as a unarmed person, thus you will draw even more attention.
Never go it alone and people will kill just to do it. No reasons needed no law to answer to
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LJ126
LJ126
30. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 12:47 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 12:53 PM EST
That's the point you're missing - we ARE acknowledging that people are messed up and will shoot you for the contents of your pockets, even if it's lint. However, by showing off what you own, you are just making yourself a bigger target. How do you not see that??

I don't advocate a "lone wolf" mentality, but most of us are in that situation and it is outside of our control. We don't live close to our families, and we don't know our neighbors. We're not third-generation living-on-a-farm and married to our family friends. We didn't all go to high school together. Our neighbors could very well be the BGMF'ers we're all trying to avoid, and the first time we step on the front step with an AR-15, the whole Los Zetas are on our doorstep. The only person I can rely on here other than myself is Maricely, and that makes just TWO people - and the sad part is that we're better off than most because at least there's someone else in the house that's on the same page that knows how to operate a weapon. Most of our members do not have backup at all, period - they might be truly alone. How do you not see that most of us here are in that situation?? Have you never been in a city before?

Critter, you really need to work on your reading comprehension. You are simply not getting it.
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11ACRBlackhorse
11ACRBlackhorse
31. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 1:07 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 1:07 PM EST
So you plan on leaving your wife and kid by themselves while you do stuff. Ok more power to you. But wouldnt be safer to have them with you as a group effort and her covering you with a better gun.

But again you arent one bit fooling anyone with a hidden gun. Nobody would beleave a well fed, cleaner than most, and not scared at his own shadow, isnt armed with something. You will look as a supplied person with goodies. And to be not scared as person without a showing weapon. You will say easy target to the foolish and say hidden gun to the wise. Its not fooling anyone really.
People that survive the SHTF will be armed and usually in groups. Any loner with or without a gun will be fair game.

Oh by the way I hav lived in a few over a million pop cities. Im from country and married into country. Still dont mean I havent been there and lived on the wrong side of the tracks. Ive seen cars stripped in supermarket parking lots or even in someone drive way.
Ive heard of people shooting people for nothing more than its their neighborhood and your not their kind.
Ive had friends chased out of town because they wouldnt contribute to the block fund. Oh with lots of damaged property and injuries.
All of this while a sense of law and order still exists. What you think will happen when SHTF accures. It will be revenge and a free for all. Nothing will matter.

But hey if you want to be a loner with only a concealled handgun then so be it. Its not family at risk. If your wrong they have one less link to survival.
If I was you I would find close by frends that will join forces so the loner thing can be less of an issue. Because while yu are gone alone someone raids your BOL and you return to a real bad scenario.

PS You can grow lots of stuff in the inner city, hear of gardens. Rabbits, rats, snakes, possums, squirrels, birds, cats, and dogs all can be raised for food.
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LJ126
LJ126
32. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 1:17 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 1:20 PM EST
You are so gridlocked into your own line of thinking that you can't even see how you're possibly wrong or how your solution is not necessarily feasible. I think you have pretty much proven that to the whole site more than once by this point. There's no budging you. Thanks for telling me, and every other city survival prepper, what's best for them and their situation. We appreciate your opinion, however wrong it probably is.

You do realize that the title is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, right? I am not saying that you should run out and sell all your other guns. What I am saying is that your tactical carbine is not the answer either, because there are issues with it. Nor is a hunting rifle or hunting shotgun the end-all answer. A handgun offers the most versatility to an urbanite because it will be there when you need it, no questions asked. If someone were to buy one weapon for the Apocalypse, a solid handgun is the best choice (in town) because it can go just about anywhere and it won't raise an eyebrow. It'll also "do" most things a city dweller needs - primarily, self defense.

For the rest of you, hopefully you can read through the screen and make the best decision for yourself. Hopefully your bulbs are brighter than old 40 watt over there. He has all the answers, but unfortunately, they're not gonna work for everyone.
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11ACRBlackhorse
11ACRBlackhorse
33. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 1:19 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 1:19 PM EST
You insist being a well fed and maintained person wont draw attention. As if food and other stuff wont be harder to get. Anyone well fed with or without a gun will be a target. Heck almost anyone alive after SHTF will become a target by vertue of you are living off of something and protecting yourself with something. If they find out your just a bad@ss primal living and killing machine (all by hand) then they will probably just kill you for safety sake. Otherwise everyone aliv in a starving city will be a target for what little they can supply.
They might just ask for protection supplies or try and take it all.
With that in mind I will never go anywhere without a long gun after SHTF. I also wont be a ever alone if possible. Even if I have to relocate to do it. Numbers equal better survivcal and security. This is true in the city or the country. The longer you stay just you, GF, and kid is endangering their lives if not yours. And every time you or she goes out by your lonesome that increases the chance of everyone meeting a gloom end.

PS Comprehension is both ways. You explain how you will hide your being well fed and maintained. Gun not withstanding. You cant hide it and that will be a target if there is any. Most will already have them guns and food will be in more need. Looking armed isnt as bad as looking to healthy for the enviroment your in.
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Sharpie41
Sharpie41
34. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 1:22 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 1:22 PM EST
I think having a concealed handgun is the lesser of two evils. Why? Because a rifle has better range, better knock down ability, and high cap mags etc, a pistol has low range (I suspect most encounters will be close range) "enough" lethality and can get high cap mags, what makes the pistol less of an evil in concealment, while you "only" have a pistol, it won't print that you're armed, making you less of a target (greyman here...) whereas if you have an almighty rifle, its large, and heavy, so you may get the desire to put it down, it also prints a TON that you have supplies. Now, will I be going into a shtf scenario with just a pistol? Hell no. Will I be carrying a pistol the most? Absolutely.

But like I said in my first post, use your pistol to get to your rifle
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shadowmancer
shadowmancer
35. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 1:34 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 1:36 PM EST
I think i'll go in a completely different direction. All weapons have drawbacks so a layered defence would be best. A knife for short range, a decent handgun for medium range and a long gun for longer ranges (won't try and say which is best lol im avoiding that whole wasps nest so i'll say long gun and decent lol) The best weapons in the world won't do squat if you don't know how to use them so the best survival weapon is of course training. Stick with what you know and train in their use. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
LJ126
LJ126
36. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 1:39 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 1:39 PM EST
I disagree wholeheartedly. I think you overestimate your ability to protect yourself with a carbine and you underestimate the ability of the grapevine to get that information around to places where it will turn around to bite you very hard in the cheeks

Being well-fed is not nearly as obvious from 30 feet away, much less 100 yards, as an AR-15 on a three point sling. No doubt, everyone's clothing will be a little bit baggier, the difference is that mine isn't going to be anchored down to my chest by a tactical carbine. That weapon will be used solely for home defense and major unrest. It's not a "you're coming everywhere with me" weapon. That's the job of a concealed handgun. That handgun is going to get you to a bigger weapon, be that in your vehicle's trunk or toolbox, or even stashed elsewhere. That one's gonna get you home. It's called "systems."

Additionally, you assume a lot more about me and other townies than you should - just because we prep solo doesn't mean we're closed to the idea of making friends afterwards. The difference is that we know how to keep a low profile. You apparently don't understand that concept. Nothing screams "survivalist" like a big ass garden, other than a carbine on a three-pointer.
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11ACRBlackhorse
11ACRBlackhorse
37. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 1:39 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 1:39 PM EST
"For the rest of you, hopefully you can read through the screen and make the best decision for yourself. Hopefully your bulbs are brighter than old 40 watt over there. He has all the answers, but unfortunately, they're not gonna work for everyone.
"
You do know I have said more thganonce I dont care what and where you cary for protection. But unlike others I dont accuse someone of something when doing it too.
Now my biggest point this whole thread is a concealled gun in a food and water starving enviroment will matter less. When its compared to your obviously fed, watered, and well cared for person goes walking around. Most peope will already have guns and want food and water more.
But hey ignore what Im trying to point out and just call me stupid next time. That 40watt remark means the same thing. And all that coming from a administrator.

PS Next time put joke next to "The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Handgun" Because for once the best general purpose gun for a survival would be Filadogs choice long before a limited ranged pistol. But lke him that is my opinion. But I guess unlike yours mine is dumber and only those that agree with this "Tongue in cheeck" are smart. Well sorry and I guess I will never understand people getting mad at others for their opinion. But hey its just a ZOMBIE site after all.
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LJ126
LJ126
38. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 1:48 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 1:57 PM EST
You're right, I shouldn't throw insults out there and I'm sorry for it. However, you haven't even tried to understand my point or logic, and you've simply applied faulty circular logic back on every attempt I've made to try to further explain my point. That is the definition of "will not budge." You won't even try to imagine a situation where your solution is not the right one.

I apologize for getting bent out of shape, however, anyone in this situation would as well. You also started this with the veiled insulting comments, so it's not as if you're totally in the right either. You seem to treat me as if I'm stupid, should you not expect it back? I'm quite aware that gardens can be grown in the city, but what if you live in an apartment? The best preps are the ones that work for everyone, and that's what I try to talk about.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I do expect everyone to try to keep an open mind. You haven't even tried that. Don't talk to me like I'm a rookie and don't presume to know anything about my level of preparedness - I've probably been formally acquainted with survival preparedness for a greater percentage of my life than you have. I will not accept veiled insults alluding to the contrary.
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shadowmancer
shadowmancer
39. RE: The Best General-Purpose Survival Firearm is a Good Handgun.
Feb 21 2012, 1:54 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 2:42 PM EST
LJ126 is not stupid and don't treat him as such everyone should show a little civility even if you don't agree with what is said. No one knows everything and there is no right answer in an OPINION. He's pointed out flaws in my plan such as being too speicific preventing adapabilty and lack of a more common caliber of weapon, my love of enfield's blinded me, which i was greatful for, because i couldn't see them and i have been hunting, tracking and prepping since i was a child. Others such as 11ACRBlackhorse have pointed out flaws in my work also and were civil mainly the sheer weight and degrading roads. I learned to appriciate civil input because i do not know everything nor do you. I've also shown some people some rather interesting facts on erm rather strange topics that i've learned on my travels as well such as the uses of poop lol. This whole site is give and take so try and consider other options. There are no universals. Honestly I've ranted too we'll all do it eventually, but for God's sake don't let it get out of hand everyone should step back and consider it for a moment. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
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