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Discussion: PemmicanReported This is a featured thread

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Zee-Man
Zee-Man
Pemmican
Mar 31 2012, 4:24 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 31 2012, 4:29 PM EDT
Im so glad that Shadowmancer has made this page. I've been enthralled with pemmican for a number of years. This tasty food is packed with calories. When fortified with some not so traditional ingredients it supplies calories and vitamins from varied sources.

My recipe is for those who need to use the "other large edible animal" Quantities are by "feel". I do not have any actual measurements.

2 parts -Lean Beef, dried
1/3 part - Honey, dehydrated
1/3 part -Cashews, ground
1/3 part - Peanuts, ground
Rendered fat - beef tallow from marrow bones, fat trimmings, I even use bacon fat sometimes. Use enough to thoroughly "wet" all the dry ingredients, and then some more. It should roughly be 1 part.

Nutrition information

I use beef roast for my beef source. I get one that is a bit larger than I need for a meal, then cut off a piece and slice it into 1/8 to 3/16 thick slices. These I will hang in the oven at its lowest setting until dry. While the beef is drying I put honey in an pyrex bowl and put it in the oven to dehydrate at the same time. I render the marrow and fat at the same time as cooking the roast. It all goes into a colander nested in a bowl. Getting the marrow bones and fat trimmings is often a matter of luck. That luck is best if I go shopping when there is actually a butcher in the market.
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ubersoldat
ubersoldat
1. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 8:33 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 8:33 AM EDT
traditionally it is made with dried meats, usually dense meat.like elk, buffalo, et ceters
i like using jerky myself becasue it is just easier. i use ground beef or cheap roast meat.

add grains like sorgum, wheat, rye, et cetera

nuts aren't traditional to pemican, but are good in it, the native americans used sunflower seeds commonly

dried fruit like berries and plums, or nowadays we can use anything from raisins to apples to dates

the misture was held togeter with rendered fat. it had the consistanty of a hard chocolate bar ance it set well. it was often wrapped in leather and put into pots of dirt to keep it safe from sun, cold, wet, and insects. it has a decent shelf life with a little effort and no exposure to air.

using oatmeal, beef jerky, raisins, dates, cashews, sunflower seed, cream of wheat, and crisco you can make quick and easy pemmican in the kitchen that is great for a high energy food on the go, in a hurry.
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Zee-Man
Zee-Man
2. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 9:59 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 9:59 AM EDT
the rawhide rolls and wallets that the natives used may be traditional, but the purpose was to prevent water from getting to the dried ingredients. The fats, aside from being super high in calories, perform the same function. The modern zip lock bag is far better in my opinion.

When adding fruits, be sure you have dehydrated them very well. Fruits should be of the dense fruit leather consistency. Ingredients with sugar in them should be a smaller part since the sugars are hygroscopic. The whole idea behind pemmican is to remove water. It is the original dehydrated food.

Grains are not a traditional ingredient to pemmican either. I have experimented with flour and corn meal. Flour makes it pasty. Corn meal make it gritty. Neither add much in the way of calories. I am making some pemmican today, I plan to try some with rolled oats. Nuts, however, do contribute high calories from vegetable fats, carbohydrates, and protein. Grains (if you can tolerate the texture) and nuts (and legumes in the case of peanuts) add a broader spectrum of vitamins and minerals. The idea is to increase diversity, not to make granola with meat.

79% of the calories in Pemmican (based on my recipe) comes from [animal] fat. So over a long period this is not a very healthy food. As a survival food, it is hard to beat. When eating pemmican on should restrain oneself to small amounts. Keep in mind that it is a concentrated food.
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shadowmancer
shadowmancer
3. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 12:14 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 12:14 PM EDT
they also used rawhide becase most original recipies are for one buffalo lol and instruct which parts of the animal to use for what lol render fat in stomach. Do you find this valuable?    
brandon_a_boyer
brandon_a_boyer
4. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 1:31 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 1:31 PM EDT
You can use dried fish too. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
shadowmancer
shadowmancer
5. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 1:55 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 1:55 PM EDT
lol Zee the page is comming slowly i'll soon have hard tack up gotta do some timing on open flame. Do you find this valuable?    
ubersoldat
ubersoldat
6. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 6:36 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 6:36 PM EDT
"the rawhide rolls and wallets that the natives used may be traditional, but the purpose was to prevent water from getting to the dried ingredients. The fats, aside from being super high in calories, perform the same function. The modern zip lock bag is far better in my opinion.

When adding fruits, be sure you have dehydrated them very well. Fruits should be of the dense fruit leather consistency. Ingredients with sugar in them should be a smaller part since the sugars are hygroscopic. The whole idea behind pemmican is to remove water. It is the original dehydrated food.

Grains are not a traditional ingredient to pemmican either. I have experimented with flour and corn meal. Flour makes it pasty. Corn meal make it gritty. Neither add much in the way of calories. I am making some pemmican today, I plan to try some with rolled oats. Nuts, however, do contribute high calories from vegetable fats, carbohydrates, and protein. Grains (if you can tolerate the texture) and nuts (and legumes in the case of peanuts) add a broader spectrum of vitamins and minerals. The idea is to increase diversity, not to make granola with meat.

79% of the calories in Pemmican (based on my recipe) comes from [animal] fat. So over a long period this is not a very healthy food. As a survival food, it is hard to beat. When eating pemmican on should restrain oneself to small amounts. Keep in mind that it is a concentrated food.
"
grains are very traditional ingrediants for pemmican. the northeastern tribes used sorgum, corn, wheat, barely, just about any grain they had available, it is essentially a grain and rendered fat bar with extras thrown in for good measure. high density meat was used becasue it could be dried so thuroughly while fatt or low density meats where used to provide the fats.

nuts were not to common, but seeds and any type of berry that could be rock baked and sun dried were used often to make a little more pallitable.
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Zee-Man
Zee-Man
7. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 8:29 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 8:29 PM EDT
"grains are very traditional ingrediants for pemmican. the northeastern tribes used sorgum, corn, wheat, barely, just about any grain they had available, it is essentially a grain and rendered fat bar with extras thrown in for good measure. high density meat was used becasue it could be dried so thuroughly while fatt or low density meats where used to provide the fats.

nuts were not to common, but seeds and any type of berry that could be rock baked and sun dried were used often to make a little more pallitable.
"
Sorghum - Native to Africa, the African Indian Tribe I guess.
Wheat and Barley - Imported from Europe, Dutch Indian Tribe? French Indian Tribe?
Corn - assuming you mean Maize, perhaps, see below
Wild Rice - native, perhaps

While I have not done exhaustive research on the matter, none of the historic resources I have encountered attest to grain usage. I have yet to find a current Native American group that shows a recipe with grains. Since I reference this food often I would be very interested in finding a
source that indicates grain as a traditional ingredient.

Perhaps we are quibbling on the word "Traditional". If Traditional includes the time period after the influence of Europeans then grains might indeed be incorporated. By 1774 the Hudson Bay Company was making pemmican according to a recipe that did not include grains. I have not found grain as an ingredient among sources referring to pemmican with the Iroquois Nations, the Blackfoot Nations, the Metis, the Innuit, nor other First Nations. I specifically looked for pemmican among the Mohawk. Those references always talked about pemmican as an influence from Metis. Can you say which of the original nations you refer to as northeastern indians?
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Zee-Man
Zee-Man
8. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 8:43 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 10:27 PM EDT
The recipes all seem to focus on the prevelant foods of the areas. Moose for the northeasten tribes, elk for the northwestern, bison for the plains, deer for the mid-eastern. Berries appear to be used in a special pemmican produced from choice cuts of meat.

Maize was uncommon in the areas where pemmican was a common food. A food used by the Lene Lenape more than others of the Algonquian confederacy, maize never seemed to make it into pemmican. The Lene Lanape do not appear to be makers of pemmican. I speculate that these tribes did not have access to animals with high fat content. It would appear that fats in the Lene Lenape diet came from their fishing industry.

While migration paths certainly had southwestern natives in communication with the northwestern natives, they did not have a source for fatty animals either. I speculate that they did not have pemmican for this reason also. They certainly had a great reliance on maize as a staple.

Edit: It appears that Lenape is the native name of the Algonquin nations. Algonquin being the name given them by French explorers. Lenape natives are usually called Delaware Indians because the earliest settlements encountered them in the Marche De La Warre. In the Delaware area (Delaware, New Jersey, and SE Pennsylvania) the prefix Lenni (Leni, Lene, Lenne) is used specifically for the tribes that inhabited the area. So when I speak of Lene Lenape I am referring to a specific subset of the language group.
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Zee-Man
Zee-Man
9. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 9:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 9:39 PM EDT
The making of pemmican was not accidental. In all sources I have seen pemmican is primarily a means of long term storage, or preservation. The most important part of the preservation method was making fine particles of the ingredients and soaking them in the fat. The fat excluded water from be absorbed by the other ingredients. The meat and berries are both hygroscopic. If not hermetically sealed from air, they would absorb enough water from the atmosphere to support yeast, mold, and bacteria. A hermetic seal is achieved by the tight packing in rawhide and the high fat content.

The way grains behave in pemmican causes the mixture to pack poorly and break up easily. My experience is with a ratio of only 25% cornmeal by volume. The addition of nuts and legumes has the same effect. Breaking up the pemmican allows air to encounter the other ingredients, increasing the likelihood of spoilage.

Since grains and nuts did not require extra effort for preservation they probably were not included in pemmican. Simple basketry and bags were sufficient for their storage.

The Sioux and other plains natives would bury grains in caches, but this appears to be not a means of preservation but to keep the foods from animal invasion. It might be construed that the grains were used as desiccants. One source indicates that squashes were stored in a hole lined with maize on the cob.
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Zee-Man
Zee-Man
10. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 9:37 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 9:42 PM EDT
There are 3 species of wild rice in North America. One is native to a very specific part of Texas. Two species are found in the regions where pemmican was made. The Ojibwa and Menominee tribes and presumably other members of the Blackfoot nations harvested manoomin, or wild rice.

The Sioux also harvested wild rice. Growing well into the St. Lawrence estuary we could assume it was also used by the Iroquois nations. Sources clearly indicated that the grain was dried and stored in boxes or bags. The detail of description of harvest, processing and usage given by the researchers and naturalists of the time is rather complete. Source
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shadowmancer
shadowmancer
11. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 10:36 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 10:47 PM EDT
Pemmican didn't contain any grains originally only dried fruit such as Saskatoon berries. Nomadic people don’t carry many grains with them. Grains are not common the diet of Plains Natives, It was mostly meat. The thick root structure of the natural grasses of the Canadian parries prevented agriculture until the arrival of European styled plows. The Huron style plow, the predominant plow of the pre contact era, were not heavy enough and lacked the vertical knife blades of their European counterparts. The people who would become the Metis did not introduce large scale agriculture to the area. Large scale agriculture was not introduced until the building of railways. Wild rice grows in the Great lakes region with the largest caches arround Lake Superior. There are other varieties as Zee-Man stated but they are much farther south. The wild rice is out of range of the Plains Native. They mostly travelled a foot. Their constructs were optimized for that and they did not carry mills or grindstones on their backs.

The recipe I presented is mostly an original. I am descended in part from the Metis and it's been passed along since the 18th century. Bannock came about due to trade and the construction of the railway. It’s as authentic as it gets only mildly adjusted for the lack of bison where I currently live that and I love Moose and Pine nuts. Fruit was for wedding and ceremonial pemmican. Every Canadian school child knows the makeup of pemmican. Salted items would hinder the preservation allowing moisture to build up. It was never buried; petrified pemmican is actually a species of tinder fungus sold to tourists as a souvenir. Burying the Pemmican would saturate the rawhide pouches causing it to rot.
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ubersoldat
ubersoldat
12. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 10:42 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 10:42 PM EDT
pemmican is kind of a catch all name for a storable food source adopted out common usage by known native americans.

to think that any native people of any region on the planet wouldn't make use of anything available to them to better their ability to continue to live is quite silly.

if you just want to get into a pissing contest so you can be right, hey have fun. i bow to obviously superior iconography.
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shadowmancer
shadowmancer
13. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 10:48 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 10:59 PM EDT
Pemmican is the Metis name. The name is French in origin, not Aboriginal. To think they had access to supplies without a transportation system is silly. To think a traditional food for centuries would contain elements which would cause it to rot rapidly is silly. To think that Natives are a single monotonous group is silly. Do you find this valuable?    
Zee-Man
Zee-Man
14. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 11:29 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 11:29 PM EDT
"pemmican is kind of a catch all name for a storable food source adopted out common usage by known native americans. "
So if I pack grapes in a mason jar with a heavy syrup made from cane sugar, then heat it under pressure, and allow it too cool that is a type a pemmican? I thought it was jelly. Packing rice into a box is pemmican? After all, these methods fit your definition.

It is not a matter of being superior. You deigned only to pass off unsupported information as fact without any effort to show us where your claims come from. Claims without citation, or even clarification are weak. Notice that both Shadow and myself are careful to state when something comes from personal experience. Personal experience is valid information. When you gave the recipe, "using oatmeal, beef
jerky, raisins, dates, cashews, sunflower seed, cream of wheat, and
crisco you can make quick and easy pemmican in the kitchen that is great
for a high energy food on the go, in a hurry." you offered very valid and pertinent information.

To be fair, I did not cite all my sources, however, I can provide the sources. If this had been a pissing match then I guess you have a tiny wee-wee and a miniscule bladder.


@ Shadow
Linguists attribute the source of the word to the Cree word "pemmis" meaning fat. French for fat is "graisse". Rather cool that you have Metis heritage.
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Zee-Man
Zee-Man
15. RE: Pemmican
Apr 1 2012, 11:50 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2012, 11:50 PM EDT
" I am making some pemmican today, I plan to try some with rolled oats. "
The rolled oats also caused poor packing. They also caused much more severe breakup. Even so, I think they make a good addition, providing a source of dietary fiber and iron. With the zip lock bag I do not worry so much about water absorption. Further, because of the cost I only make pemmican as a survival food. As such I keep it refrigerated or frozen. Maybe when I have enough I will keep some in the UEV. Need to experiment with that to find out what summer heat will do with it.

Side note: I find it interesting that this was considered a staple food of the Native Americans and yet, modern economy makes this an expensive food. Modern health concerns makes it hard to make. With such disdain for fats it is hard to even buy a cut of meat with a good amount of fat. Like I said above, I had to be lucky enough to encounter the butcher. Most often when I go grocery shopping the butcher is already off shift.
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=jesse=
=jesse=
16. RE: Pemmican
Apr 2 2012, 12:46 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2012, 12:46 PM EDT
"Side note: I find it interesting that this was considered a staple food of the Native Americans and yet, modern economy makes this an expensive food.
"
Funny that you mention this. This is true across a lot of foods. My dad was born in Korea. For those of you that are wondering, he was born in the South. If he was born in North, he'd still be there. He mentioned how grocery stores today (including Korean grocers) have such high prices for 'poor people food'. He says more than half the stuff that has marked up prices because they're 'all natural' and 'organic' is what he and his sister used to eat because there was nothing else. Something as simple as an egg was considered a treasure because of their rarity.

On a funnier note, if you ever notice older Koreans at fast food restaurants, they always grab napkins, ketchup packs, etc. My dad said that this was because poverty was so severe, something like this was unheard of. When he came to the US when he was 12, he went to a McDonalds and couldn't believe they had free packs pf ketchup. He didn't understand the concept of ordering food when you could just eat the ketchup packs for free.
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ubersoldat
ubersoldat
17. RE: Pemmican
Apr 2 2012, 1:57 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2012, 1:57 PM EDT
i was stationed at camp liberty bell, next to the joint security area compound for a tour. the demilitarized zone was like being in the twilight zone. the really odd thing was how the south koreans would trade cooked meals for MRE's and the near obsession with spam.

the south koreans were really good at making high quality knock offs of clothing, shoes, and such at like 1/10th the name brand price. just show a tailor an outfit and hash out a few details and the next thing you know you have the same suit, handmade to fit you, for a lot less. it was reallycool.
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shadowmancer
shadowmancer
18. RE: Pemmican
Apr 5 2012, 12:30 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 6 2012, 9:55 AM EDT
That is one of those rare historical things that is both True and not true Zee-Man it's a long story Do you find this valuable?    

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