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Zee-Man |
40. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 7 2012, 8:06 PM EDT
"there are videos online of a huge group standing around a burning car with two people trapped inside and none of them stepped up to the plate. "One night when driving home from my parents I was stunned to see a car flip over and catch on fire. The back of the car was burning well. I pulled over and told my children to stay in the car. I ran over and saw the driver still in the car. I managed to get the man out of his car and to a safe distance. I began treatment for shock. He told me his wife and child were in the back seat. It was fully engulfed when I got there, but I went to try anyway. There was no hope, I could not get close enough to see anything let alone effect a rescue. A gas delivery truck stopped and attempted to extinguish the fire with nitrogen to no avail. Several other drivers stopped to attempt using their small ABC extinguishers. The fire simply could not be controlled. The difference is that the fire gets into the car on its own, the zombies can only mill about. Assuming I have range weapons I can attack the zombies from a distance and some sort of safety. None of us in the above event could do that except the fire company that arrived later. The zombies could be distracted, the fire continues. I can brave some injury from the fire, first or even second degree burns pose no real problem. One can not suffer even a slight zombie bite. Even some third degree burns could be suffered since an operating hospital is available. Come Zpoc I do not expect a hospital to be operating nor that they could do anything if I were bitten. Do you find this valuable? |
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Zee-Man |
41. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 7 2012, 8:06 PM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 7 2012, 8:07 PM EDT
True, fear immobilizes most bystanders. In emergency response training we learned that training and imagination made the difference in studies. Those that were trained to respond would. Those that even imagined a response would also respond. In my role as ERT (not EMS mind you, something far less in my case) I was taught to imagine the worst case scenarios. When I drove a cab, there was a laughable training video that started with a string of 20 "what if". Laughable yes, but then playing what if PREPARED me for a car crash later in my life. Preparedness that saved my life, my wife's life, and the life of my unborn son. I think there is more altruism out there than we feel safe to count on. Heros live among us without recognition. Do you find this valuable? |
renet76 |
42. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 8 2012, 12:12 AM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 8 2012, 2:07 AM EDT
I have to say my human decency fuel tank is empty its all been burnt up by trying to do the right thing and being a decent human beingI would not risk my life to save the woman and child trapped in the car. the amount of times i have stuck my neck out to help and aid people that were in trouble or difficulty are numerous but all that has ended now and my reason is pretty simple A few months ago while my wife and i were shopping at a mall we decided to get some lunch. Now my wife had just had a tooth removed that morning and said she didn't feel well and had to go to the toilet so no worries off she went then i saw people gawking at some thing so i look over and saw my wife had collapsed in the floor near the toilets i rushed over to her side to see what was wrong when i go there she was unconscious and non responsive Despite my pleas for help no one did a damn thing people actually stepped over her while i put her into the recovery position and one guy actually stepped on her hand while stepping over her so in the 10 minutes it took for the medics to get there i had people abusing me because she was blocking the path to the toilets not one single person asked if they could be of assistance 2 weeks ago my wife was assaulted at work by people attempting to steal a load of meat when she confronted them 2 of them attacked her all of her work colleges did nothing it took 5 cops to take one of the guys down but for the 10 minutes that my wife went toe to toe against 2 guys not a single person came to her aid the result was a broken rotor-cuff fractured fingers on both hands broken nose a cracked rib and **** loads of scratches and bruises she did well to hold out until the police came but out of the 40 people that were working none came to her aid my attitude is now i care for my own and that all the rest can live in the world they made for themselves and i make no apologies for that Do you find this valuable? |
TreeLegs |
43. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 8 2012, 2:51 AM EDT
"2 weeks ago my wife was assaulted at work by people attempting to steal a load of meat when she confronted them 2 of them attacked her all of her work colleges did nothing it took 5 cops to take one of the guys down but for the 10 minutes that my wife went toe to toe against 2 guys not a single person came to her aid the result was a broken rotor-cuff fractured fingers on both hands broken nose a cracked rib and **** loads of scratches and bruises she did well to hold out until the police came but out of the 40 people that were working none came to her aidSounds like your wife is one heck of a woman. She stood up for what she believed in, which is more than what most people do nowadays. ZM-"I think there is more altruism out there than we feel safe to count on. Heros live among us without recognition." Utterly agree. I've been saved by and been that guy a couple of times. Do you find this valuable? |
Carnack |
44. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 8 2012, 3:13 AM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 8 2012, 3:21 AM EDT
"This has been a very interesting topic between my friends and I. In case of total anarchy and dissolution of authority, what would happen to morals? You want to think that you'd save that woman and her baby trapped in their car by a mob of zombies, but would you really risk your life to do that?"Haven't actually answered the OP so here goes. It depends on the situation. I do no good diving into a situation of certain death and dying but if I have a realistic means of accomplishing the rescue alive then yes I would. My reasoning is that human decency will be even more meaningful after it all goes to crap. That if able I must cultivate that desire to do good in others because that's our only hope for the survival of humanity. And I may need a banging buddy and I ain't redneck enough to go with cousins. Yes it would be hard and yes it may end up going south somewhere down the road but nothing that has meaning is easy. Anyone can just put a bullet in humanity's head and walk away but it takes courage to be decent knowing that the world isn't. Hopefully I have that courage. I doubt it sometimes. Do you find this valuable? |
redcomrad |
45. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 8 2012, 3:33 AM EDT
" And I may need a banging buddy and I ain't redneck enough to go with cousins.you better apoligize for that, some of my friends are termed "rednecks" and "hill billys". Do you find this valuable? |
FrankLeeDeRainged |
46. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 8 2012, 5:07 AM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 8 2012, 5:11 AM EDT
"Haven't actually answered the OP so here goes."I'm objecting to the original post as pernicious nonsense from someone who is using the term 'anarchy' to mean an abandonment of obligation, responsibility and duty. This is the definition promoted by the people with a vested interest in persuading us that they are indispensable and without their (growing) control of our lives we would all freeze, alone in the dark. The original poster needs to wake up, thats not coffee, it's the smell of burning liberties! _ Do you find this valuable? |
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Zee-Man |
47. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 8 2012, 10:02 AM EDT
"I have to say my human decency fuel tank is empty its all been burnt up by trying to do the right thing and being a decent human being"As I read your reply I feel like I hear pain and anguish and a desire to be separated from the crows (that was a typo for crowd but it rather fits so I let it stand). I too feel like they can fend for themselves. But I can not live with myself as the non-involved bystander. When I see a disabled car on the road I carefully look to see if I should stop to render assistance. Too many times have I been the one that waited and waited for a human to stop. You too, are a human. I predict that your tank is not on empty. You may find that it is simply not openly available; held in reserve. Your wife sounds like quite an honorable woman. I would not doubt that she had rehearsed what she would do if thieves came on the scene. After all, you guys do prepare for such events. One came up and she did what she trained to do. In no way does that justify the non-involved. However, that does bring up a different question. Are we who prepare for dire events, being more likely to have a response, at greater risk of confrontation? Do you find this valuable? |
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Zee-Man |
48. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 8 2012, 10:04 AM EDT
"I'm objecting to the original post as pernicious nonsense from someone who is using the term 'anarchy' to mean an abandonment of obligation, responsibility and duty."^^ Right on! But see how the thread has turned around. Do you find this valuable? |
ubersoldat |
49. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 8 2012, 2:45 PM EDT
maybe it should be a discussion of doing a good thing vs doing the right thing in the face of apocalyptic circumstances
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renet76 |
50. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 8 2012, 5:02 PM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 8 2012, 6:48 PM EDT
"Sounds like your wife is one heck of a woman. She stood up for what she believed in, which is more than what most people do nowadays. Yeah i often joke that i should put a sign up saying beware of the wife don't worry about the dog her mentality is she will never be a victim again ( she grew up in a home surrounded by domestic abuse and brutality) its why she goes to the gym 4 nights a week and works out for 2/ 3 hours each time after work and does boxing the other 3 nights a week when she has time off However the reward for taking a stand is the following 1. her injuries neither here nor there but are a result of taking a stand 2. She is now facing disciplinary action from her employer for being involved in the altercation at work and is most likely to have her employment terminated 3. she had to surrender her firearms license and firearms to the police pending further investigation. yeah if you have a handgun license and get involved in any sort of violent crime even if your the victim they take your guns till they decide its ok to give them back when ever that is although they did say it should only take a "couple"of months to sort it out for her and return them We live in a world where the innocent and those that take a stand are punished while the guilty get a back rub and counseling Do you find this valuable? |
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Zee-Man |
51. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 8 2012, 5:48 PM EDT
"We live in a world where the innocent and those that take a stand are punished while the guilty get a back rub and counseling"Yeah, that happens here in the States too. Burglars break into one's home injure themselves then sue the homeowner. And they win their suit for heaven's sake! Would you clarify point 2? Is your wife at risk of losing her job because she was defending the company's interests? That is something that would go to the labor board here. It might only result in securing unemployment benefits. On the other hand, since I'm blathering about litigation, some ACLU lawyer would love to represent her against her company for not having armed guards at the loading dock. I, too, have felt the backlash from doing the right thing. Even so, I continue to offer my assistance when it is needed. Do you find this valuable? |
IrishHitman |
52. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 8 2012, 5:50 PM EDT
"That's an excellent point. People who just got home from Church aren't going to be the same after a couple years of cutting and roaming through hordes of the undead."Assuming that all people who go to Church are always upright morally is a hilarious suggestion. The question is a false dichotomy, the opposite of anarchy is complete authority, neither can exist in reality. As for the point you were trying to make (i.e. would moral authority break down when legal authority has broken down), moral authority was never truly effective nor will it ever be while people can go hungry, or acquire tastes for things they have no moral way of obtaining. The answer is that the same thing that happens now will happen after the fall of legal authority: People will do what they can to obtain what they want/need in accordance with their individual morality. The difference will be that the retaliation/protection of society via the law will be non-existent, meaning that moral/ethical wrongs that are truly damaging may go unpunished or unanswered. Do you find this valuable? |
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Carnack |
53. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 8 2012, 5:52 PM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 8 2012, 5:54 PM EDT
EDIT
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IrishHitman |
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renet76 |
55. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 8 2012, 7:02 PM EDT
"sorry Zee-man i wasn't very clear with point 2 i actually missed a bit on the end in the eyes of the company that my wife works for and the union that she is a member of her actions ( by confronting the thieves) directly provoked the violent confrontation and they ( meaning the employer and the Union) feel if she had not intervened there would never of been an assault take place and she did the companies image a disservice by an employee of their company in their uniform being involved in a ( their words ) violent brawl on their property. regardless of the fact she had already called the police and it was the 3rd trolley load of goods they were taking from the store they still feel she should of done nothing and her actions directly effected the image of the company So telling thieves they are not stealing any more goods and that the police are on the way then being attacked for it is a big no no in their eyes Do you find this valuable? |
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redcomrad |
56. RE: Morality vs Anarchy
Apr 9 2012, 1:42 AM EDT
I think she should find another job somewhere else, and also get a good lawyer and sue them till they bleed in my opinion. your wife is amazing my friend hope your thankful to have a woman like that(unless shes blonde). stand by your woman don't let those piece of ******* rat **** mess with yall.
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