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Discussion: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
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Jackelyn-MicahHardin |
Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 7:29 AM EDT
With the M1 carbine at the head of this list, I think some important things is not being considered about weapons choices. Ammo availability and diversity for the 30 carbine is poor. At less than 2000 fps with a110 grain slug, It also is on the light side for big game such as deer or farell hog at all but point blank range. It is a fine weapon and would get the job done but AR15, mini 14 and AK47/SKS, demonstrate the same handiness and reliability but more available ammo and power. The 700 remington is also a good choice but it cannot be repaired without specialy smithing tools like the Savage 110 and variants. More important than the brand, the sniper rifler caliber choices should be limited to what is available at wall mart or the local hardware store in large numbers and optomizes the mauser design, Probably 30'06 or 308/7.62x51 NATO. They offer the best combonation of availability, versatility, range and power. The only more avalable rifle cartrege is the 3030 so,that is what the 336 marlin should be chambered in excusivly. Another option, a quality Lever gun in a lage pistol cartrage prferabley 44mag, 357 mag or 45lc for ammo interchangability with side arm. A conspicuous absence is the Emfield SMILE. Cokcing on the down stroke, it is by far the fastst bolt action ever built, It has a 10 round capacity and uses the abundant,powerfull and accurat 303. The 303 is the moste popular hunting cartrage inthe world including Canada just to our north. It is also the most battle tested design in history. The SMILE still holds the world record for most 300 yrd bulls eyes in a minute, 31 consecutive,held since 1914. They are also fairly inexpensive compared to the only comparable rifle here, the M1 Garand. While the Negant is cheeper yet and belong right were it is at, It lacks the SMILE's capacity and rate of fire. Thats why I compare it to the Garand. Just a few things when buyin your end of days weapon.
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11ACRBlackhorse |
1. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 8:24 AM EDT
The list of the top ten wasn't done by stats or anything but personal choice of the voters.Around here I can find 243 and 270 (to name a few) more than 30-30. As for the 303, it is almost as common as the 7.62X54R or 8mm Mauser rounds. Which means only at gun shops and gun shows. I haven't seen these (including 303) in any of our Wall Marts ever. Now classing the SMLE with the Garand for capacity is ok. But putting it there for rate of fire is forgetting one critical issue. Shooter ability to manipulate the bolt that fast and keep the sights on target as with a typical semi auto like the Garand. The records were done by people with lots of training (months) and only a few could ever even get close to the record. Where a Garand took only days to weeks to get as proficient. So it isn't close to being in the same class of rifle as a Garand. Learning to hit a target after every trigger squeeze is a lot easier than also adding manually manipulating the bolt to eject and chamber the next round between shots. Sorry but not even close to the same. A M1 carbine might be on the light side for deer. But I know of more than a few that bag their deer every year with it. So it does the job. I live in Ohio and hogs aren't much of an issue yet in my area. And in cities or other parts of the states and or Canada I don't think hogs matter either. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
randomknife666 |
2. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 8:32 AM EDT
"The list of the top ten wasn't done by stats or anything but personal choice of the voters.Really? Canadian tire, Wal-Mart, and a few other stores in town sell .303 british. Do you find this valuable? |
shadowmancer |
3. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 9:11 AM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 12 2012, 9:47 AM EDT
America isn't part of the Commonwealth, outside the Commonwealth the .303 is rare inside it is very common. The British Empire was over half the planet therefore more British designs in these regions. In former French colonial or Slavic areas Soviet ammo and arms are prevalent. These weapons are there because either the nation in question used to be a Soviet state, Satalite or imported Soviet surplus arms to overthrow the French. The arms also could have been aquired after the collapse of the Soviet Union, as is the case with the ak 47 and Africa. The reason Mosin is so prevalent is because it was the main issued arm of the largest mobilized army in human history. The Soviets kept the Mosin as arms reserves until the breakup in 1991 when they were liquidated along with numerous more modern arms. A large precentage of the rest of the world uses American designs and their derivatives. German munitions are common in other parts of the world such as Israel rather ironically and Nordic regions of the globe. This is for infantry rifles not for assult rifles such as the AK 47, that has more to do with economics than the geopolitical scene. Non Soviet influenced nations use the AK 47 due to cost concerns. China copies others designs for their arms industry, The arms sold are mainly Soviet and American derivatives not domestic designs. Its all geopolitics and economics why regions use what they do. The middle east is a hodgepodge of designs of all ages from all regions. It just complicates everything lol 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
vampirejediknight |
4. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 10:14 AM EDT
This list is obselete. This thread is a worn-out topic. Hogs are a problem in my area. It is hard to get .303 British in America in my experience. Lock requested. 0 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
SasquatchJim |
5. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 10:49 AM EDT
@Jackelyn-MicahHardin, the list you're referring to is the old one.Look here to see the updated results: http://www.zombiesurvivalwiki.com/page/The+Annual+ZSDW+Weapon+Election I'm gonna go ahead and leave this up though, in case the OP as anything to say about the new list. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
Sharpie41 |
6. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 10:59 AM EDT
"@Jackelyn-MicahHardin, the list you're referring to is the old one.We should update it though, just because I'm thinking we're gonna get more of these threads...especially after Zombieland 2 and World War Z come out 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Sharpie41 |
7. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 11:08 AM EDT
Also, I think we should have an annual weapons poll, just to keep current, and get rid of variant models, like the AK-47 & 74, basically the same model, just diff. calibreThe last one was held last August, we should have another one this August. Anyone agree? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
LJ126 |
8. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 11:11 AM EDT
My local Walmart only carries six different rifle calibers - .22LR, .22WMR, .223/5.56, 7.62x39, .308 and .30-06. .308 is perpetually sold out, but there's always a lot of .30-06. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Jackelyn-MicahHardin |
9. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 11:16 AM EDT
303 is manufactured and sold in this country by all major amunition manufactures. Anjd it is a top 10 seller in this country. Granted not as avalable as som others. The 30 carbine is not manufactured by amany and impractical for aquiring food which should be a primary funtion of a survival weapon. 3030 is hands down the best sellng rifle ammo in all 50 states and acounts for almost half of all big game kills in the us bar non. It has had the #1 Place evey year for over a century. The 336 does not ofer 270 or 243, and 35 remington as good as it realy is, is poor choice simply becaus of ammo supply. 270 and 243 ar good choices for the 700 but they are very high presure rounds and barels wear out fast compared to 06 and neithe offer 200 grain slugs for grizaly country. The '06 is still in second for overallproduction and sales behind the 3030 alone. The SMILE was also manufactured in 7.62 Nato as well so if you want, forget the 303. I am not debating the mosinsn place, it belongs on the list, I own one and love it but, you have to admit quality reloadabl ammo for it is much harde to find than 303. The steel ammo out their is of iratic quality and unsutable for hunting purpouses however it is abundant a gunshows and the like. Few outlets sell it other wise. I was just pointing out that Enfield was a superb weapon and belonges on the list. On the roloading front the 3030,06,and 303 are the easiest and most forgiving to reload withe the widest offring of powders and components of any out their. These guns are far less finicky. It does take more skill with an enfield to get the rate of fire but are we not all training and prepairing. Inthe field the Enfield was proven more reliable than the M1 and when used by a skille operator, faster. Not bashing the M1 either it also belongs their. Comparing it to a 700 or a Mosin, a 7.62 SMILE should look pritty good.
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Sharpie41 |
10. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 12:03 PM EDT
Dude, one thing, its not called a SMILE, its a SMLE (Short, Magazine, Lee-Enfield) I agree it should be on the list, it is a superior weapon compared to the Mosin. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
Filadog |
11. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 12:22 PM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 12 2012, 6:38 PM EDT
"303 is manufactured and sold in this country by all major amunition manufactures. Anjd it is a top 10 seller in this country. Granted not as avalable as som others. The 30 carbine is not manufactured by amany and impractical for aquiring food which should be a primary funtion of a survival weapon. 3030 is hands down the best sellng rifle ammo in all 50 states and acounts for almost half of all big game kills in the us bar non. It has had the #1 Place evey year for over a century. "Please give where you have found this information. I would be surprised to see that the 303 is in the top 10 seller of rifle ammunition sold in the USA I just flat out don't believe the 30 30 is number one best selling rifle ammo in the USA or that a 30 30 accounts for about half of all big game killed. I think probably the most popular big game cartidge would be the 30 06 Lots of people have 30 30s and many hunt with them but most probably only shoot a partial boxl of ammo out of them a year if that . For the 30 30 to be the most popular selling rifle cartridge in the USA means more would be sold then rounds like 5,56 or 7.62 X 39 which are often shot in large amounts by the guys that own rifles chambered in them There is a reason that these calibers are often sold by the case and 30 30s by the 20 rd. box. I like enfields, think I have 6 of them now, but the ammo is not a big seller in the US anymore. Was more popular back in the 1960s and I still come across old ammo a good bit If you go with a 303 you need to stockpile and/or reload because finding ammo in stores could be hit and miss 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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11ACRBlackhorse |
12. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 4:18 PM EDT
My iisue with the 30-30 is it one of the slowest rounds out there.Now the 30-30 used to be one of the top ten hunting rounds and it might still be there. But I have never seen it reach a number one threshold at anything. Cowboy Action shooting has caused it to become more common again. But it is not even close to being as common as the 308/7.62X51, 223/556X45, 30-06, 270, 7.62X39, 545X39, and 243. Or I would be able to find it in more stores than I can now. Don't get me wrong I would love to have a 30-30 lever action. It is a capable round for hunting and defense. But I can do that now with my Mausers and Mosins. And they both come chambered in a more powerful cartridge. I can find 7.62X54R with brass cases and hunting bullets. And I can take a deer with FMJ if my life required it. In a SHTF world hunting regs wont be that important. Killing what you shoot will matter more, and I could do it with a FMJ round. Do you find this valuable? |
timberrattler |
13. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 5:21 PM EDT
"My local Walmart only carries six different rifle calibers - .22LR, .22WMR, .223/5.56, 7.62x39, .308 and .30-06.Our Wal-Mart is heavy on shotgun ammo, especially slugs. They also carry. .22lr, .22wmr, .17hmr., .30-.30 and .30-06. They rarely have .223 and never have 5.56 or 7.62 military style rounds. Handgun rounds are heavy on .40 S&W believe it or not. More so than 9mm or .45acp. Even in gun shops .303 is a rare sight. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Sharpie41 |
14. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 6:37 PM EDT
"Our Wal-Mart is heavy on shotgun ammo, especially slugs.Our WalMart has a huge variety, mostly very common hunting rifle calibres, but more than you guys 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
Oakspar77777 |
15. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 12 2012, 6:42 PM EDT
My Wal-Mart is perpetually sold out of, well, everything - and has been for about four years now . . . . .hmmmmm.When they are in stock, they carry .17hmr, an assortment of .22 (long, short, subsonic, etc), .30-30, .30-06, .223 (only Federal FMJs), .308 (only the soft tiped deer stuff), and 40win. For handgun ammo, it is 9mm, .40, and .45 in big ugly yellow bargin boxes that never appear to actually be a bargin. For shotguns, tons of 7.5 and 8 in 12g and 20g, and 00buck and slugs for 12g (but never during deer season when someone might actually want some). I have seen turkey shot (4.5 in 3.25" 12g) once or twice, but at twice the cost of anything else - it said it was on sale. Needless to say, the only ammo I ever get from Wal-Mart are the economy boxes of .22LR, beacause while I can find better prices that $18 for 500 rounds online - the shipping always ruins the savings. I'm guessing the same would be true for any rimfire where the cost per round means that savings have to be DEEP to cover the cost of shipping that much weight. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
BamaChris |
16. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 13 2012, 1:09 AM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 13 2012, 1:11 AM EDT
I'm not a big fan of the 30m carbine. The ballistics are inferior, the weapons aren't that common and I haven't seen many boxes of the cartridges on the shelves where I shop.The 30-30 may be a viable round with the new LeverEvolution rounds from Hornady, otherwise it is an under 100 yards round. The .303 British is a decent round, and there are plenty of surplus rifles out there in this caliber. I'll go along with this if you are stockpiling on a tight budget. If you can afford it, get a good rifle in .308. You can get excellent battle rifles in this caliber, along with some top quality hunting rifles. The added range (out to 800 yards in a good weapon) will help a lot as well. I like the idea of a lever action in a handgun caliber, to be able to carry two weapons with only one caliber. But the range is limited for even the best of these. None will reach beyond 100 yards with any accuracy in a rifle, and all lever actions are slow to reload. I would suggest looking at the Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle if you want something that isn't a semi auto. It is a bolt gun with a magazine. You can get magazine in 3 rnd, 5 rnd or 10rnd capacities. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Jackelyn-MicahHardin |
17. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 13 2012, 9:59 AM EDT
Well asid from 100 pluss years of brass floating around waiting to be reloaded, the 3030 has millions of rifles to scavenge parts off of and thos parts will last longer than thos for the auto's, I like to stay with the older rounds due to lower presures and longer gun life. The pistol rounds are vey limited on range true but they can use cast slugs and redaly adapt to BLack powder if things get to rough. Pistol round practical combat ranges are well over 100 yrds. During the cival war Henry 44s were used in combat over 200 yrds. You cant hunt at that distance but you shopuld be able tokeep your enamies ducking at 300 yrds with hotter modern ammo. If reloading the 303 and 7.62x54r can use BP as well but only to 3030 levels. Righ now anyway quality reloadable 303 is still avalible in bulk from privi partizan loaded for around $15 a box on line. In reality the Enfield was chamberedinabout everythin out there but the 303 and 7.62x51 used striper clips. Its crapy amo but surplus is still comming out of India and Pakastan. Again not saying its the best by any stretch just that it belongs on the list, I think Savage 110 does too. I think most of you who ever had to replace a barell would agree with me. Other than that like the 700, the 110 is just another Mauser knockoff, they are all fairly deacent if made by a good company. Oakspar7777, that is why I sugeste the sniper rifle in 06 and 08 and the 336 in 3030. I dont buy ammo at walmart but I want to be able too if needed. That also is why I prefer the mini 14 and AR15 to the 30 carbine more than any othe reason.
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LJ126 |
18. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 13 2012, 10:28 AM EDT
That is hardly intelligible.I do want to offer a few corrections - the Remington 700 and Savage 110 are hardly Mauser knockoffs. The Pre-64 Winchester 70's, CZ 550, and newer Ruger M77? Those most certainly "borrow" pretty heavily from the Mauser, definitely more heavily that either the Remington or the Savage. Want a Mauser knockoff? Get a Remington 798, Interarms Mark X, or USSG Z98. Those are actually Mauser Pattern rifles. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Jackelyn-MicahHardin |
19. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 13 2012, 10:36 AM EDT
I hope you dont thin I am a big fan of 3030 or even a 303 over other rounds for hunting or anythin else. It has mor to dowith the gun and availability though availability is a problem for 303. If you do your part any deacent round will get the job done. The sales of 3030 rifle and reported sales of ammo stiill out paces every other hunting cartrage and rifle combo. The repeaters offered by big companies like henry and rossi are exclusivly lever guns and 3030 is the lions share of those. 223,7.62x39 and 7.62x54 sell almost entirly mil surp. Most steel and unreloadable, particularly the russian rounds. Steel is hard on american guns and often wont fire particularly in 7.62x39 in rugers so, a huge percentage ofthat ammo you may think is out their wont work in your gun particularly if you own a nice gun. Most AR's tell you right inthe instructions to avoid steel. AK's will shoot anything.That is why 3030 in particular. Th round is marginal but adiquate but I will likley be able to use it for longer than most if not all others. Aside from being up to the task in terms of performance and the 3030 is that, the most importan aspect about any fire arm is that you can use it when you need it and that could be 20 years after social colaps. With millionsof lightly use lever guns out their for parts and reploacement, the are millions upon millions of cartreges loaded and spent if reloading, to draw on for many years. Personaly I dont prefer the 3030 compared to practicaly any other 30 cal when hunting. I think it wiould be wilse to keep one ni the gun safe becaus it will have premiem trade value if nothing else should sociaty go belly up.
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