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Location: Top 10 Rifles for the Apocalypse
Discussion: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
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SasquatchJim |
40. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 13 2012, 8:03 PM EDT
"NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!Yeah. I'm trying to retain as many elements as possible while freeing myself of a big hangup (having a minor for a protagonist.) 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
shadowmancer |
41. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 13 2012, 9:18 PM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 13 2012, 11:24 PM EDT
The Enfield stayed in service so long because it was reasonable to mass produce and effective. The only derivative that I know about of the SMLE which saw heavy service and was not mass produced was the Mk 3 (ht). This variant of the standard MK3 were made with heavier construction and better materials than a standard infantry rifle plus it had a scope. It was a specific tool so limited numbers did not hamper it. Fila is completely correct we may disagree on other things but on the Enfield Fila's data is dead on.The only way I can think of the Enfield as possibly "being too expensive to mass produce" is if you consider that the Brits were broke. They did produce the Sten gun after the fall of France in that period of the Second World War known as the invasion scare. It is hard to mass produce anything without funds or raw materials. Thankfully for them (and the rest of the world) the USA picked up the tab. The Lee Enfield line evolved from the Lee Metford, a black powder transition piece. The rifling is the Major difference in the designs, there are minor differences but they aren't worth noting. The Mk.I British .303 was designed for the Lee Metford rifle. The Metford’s are rare as many were used with later smokeless propellants and eroded; many were converted to Enfield standard, deactivated or scraped. -Edited for an error and three typos and Lee Metford data - 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
Sharpie41 |
42. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 13 2012, 9:26 PM EDT
"Yeah. I'm trying to retain as many elements as possible while freeing myself of a big hangup (having a minor for a protagonist.)"Cool, look forward to reading it. I've read Dr. Zed twice, I have a copy saved to my Flashdrive 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
#4buck |
43. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 13 2012, 9:29 PM EDT
I'd like to throw out the idea that - historically - the 30.06 could rival the 30-30 as the most popular American rifle cartridge. If you ever look at old photos of deer hunters you see lots of lever guns, to be sure, but you also see a lot of bolt guns, especially old, home-workshop-sporterized 1903s. I mean 30.06 was our military cartridge for what, about 50 years? Certainly ball ammo's not ideal for hunting, but I'd bet that, through the 1960s anyway, a lot of deer were felled by surplus ammo fired from surplus rifles. I think it's telling, too, that if you ever shop older rifles, like the Model 70 Winchester, the least expensive specimens are chambered in 30.06 because they were most common. As for that .30 carbine she was talking about, I've got a pre-1968 magazine ad stashed away somewhere that offers surplus .30 carbines through the mail for $30. MAN I'd like to visit that time zone for a little while. But back to the original question: "Thoughts on the list of top 10 rifles" (2011 version.) I like that list a lot (I'd never seen it before) because the members chose almost exactly as I would have chosen, maybe with some different rankings. I've always maintained that the best cartridges in the USA for any sort of TEOTWAWKI scenario, zombie or otherwise, are .22Lr, .223/5.56, 7.62x39, 12 ga., 9mm, 38 special/.357 and .45 ACP because they're the most common and most accessible - ammo and weapons. (Yes, fellas, I know 7.62x39 ain't from the USA, but since the late 1980s AKs and SKSs have been landing here by the ship load, and what's the cheapest centerfire ammo you can buy in bulk?) Anyway, them's thoughts on the list. I just wish DoD would adopt the 6.8 SPC and cause that to become as readily available as .223. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Sharpie41 |
44. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
Apr 14 2012, 10:36 PM EDT
"I just wish DoD would adopt the 6.8 SPC and cause that to become as readily available as .223."Never happen in the foreseeable future 0 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
apocylipsedefender01 |
45. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 7 2012, 12:45 PM EDT
i don't like rifles i like robot armies equipped with Vulcan cannons giant chain saws and flame throwers
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Sharpie41 |
46. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 7 2012, 1:41 PM EDT
"i don't like rifles i like robot armies equipped with Vulcan cannons giant chain saws and flame throwers"If you don't like rifles why would you reply to this thread? Also, I see we have a troll thumbing down all the posts..... Jim: Haven't finished the Dr. Zed spinoff have you? 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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SasquatchJim |
47. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 7 2012, 9:39 PM EDT
"If you don't like rifles why would you reply to this thread?Nah, sorry. IB's been annoying for me; I'm down to like 3 hours of sleep per night. Do you find this valuable? |
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Sharpie41 |
48. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 7 2012, 9:46 PM EDT
"Nah, sorry. IB's been annoying for me; I'm down to like 3 hours of sleep per night."Damn, thats rough, would not be able to function on that little sleep Do you find this valuable? |
MajorKrisis |
49. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 7 2012, 11:47 PM EDT
Before we do a whole bunch of arguing on which rifle is best, I think the criteria for best rifle should be posted. This is not an exhaustive list, but it should probably include:Caliber (availability and power) Magazine capacity (readily available magazines) Affordability Ease of use Ease of maintenance Useful in urban settings? Useful in rural settings? Useful for hunting? Array of available accessories I'm surprised that the KelTec Sub2000 made it up on the board. One, because its not actually a rifle (pistol caliber carbine) and two that enough people own one to put it on the list. I love mine, but outside of my coworkers I don't know anyone who owns one. I also simply don't see how the AK-47 could be anything but #1 on the list. Price comparison from the gun show I went to this weekend: 440 rounds 7.62x54R = $83.00 (spam can) = $0.19 a bullet 500 rounds 7.62x39 = $110.00 (Tula) = $0.22 a bullet 500 rounds 5.56x45 = $159.00 (Fiocchi, bought it about 6 months ago) = $0.32 a bullet 20 rounds .303 = $17.29 (Sellier & Bellot) = $0.86 a bullet Do you find this valuable? |
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Sharpie41 |
50. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 8 2012, 12:07 AM EDT
| Post edited: May 8 2012, 10:08 AM EDT
A) This list is obsolete, B) The SUB is a rifle, you wouldn't call it a shotgun or a pistol would you? and C) While the AK is a good rifle, the calibre isn't as common as, say, an AR-15Also, before you say again that the SUB is a carbine, a carbine is a shorter rifle..... 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
11ACRBlackhorse |
51. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 8 2012, 9:21 AM EDT
"Before we do a whole bunch of arguing on which rifle is best, I think the criteria for best rifle should be posted. This is not an exhaustive list, but it should probably include:By your standards of on a top gun. It should be the AR Build a AR for under $500 and buy some good ones for close to $550 AK can be had close to $500 Draw Twice the accessories Easier to field strip for repairs/cleaning Better accuracy Greater range AR wins Useful in urban and rural settings all depends were you live. So this is a moot point considering a desert/plains gun would have different requirements than a mountain/forest gun. And dense city areas are different than a burbs location Both can be used for hunting with their calibers Both are easy to operate Draw Ruggedness and durability Ammo price AK wins I would purchase the AK first because I already have a SKS. Otherwise a AR would be first Do you find this valuable? |
KeithB1982 |
52. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 8 2012, 9:38 PM EDT
" US goverment paid a royalty to Mauser for the 1903 when it first came out. in 1903The Springfield did borrow heavily from the Spanish Mauser taken in the Spanish-American war. The M1903A3 was not a different gun than the M1903, it was the same basic rifle that had undergone a number of changes and the U.S. military opted to re-designate the model number to reflect the changes. From the original design in '03 to the re-designation the rifle had revisions from immediately after adoption until the mid-WWII years. During the nearly 40 years between the rifle had a redesigned cartridge, the 220 grain .30 cal round ball design was replaced with the .30 cal 150 grain pointed bullet design. The new load is what we call the .30-'06. Very early in production Teddy Roosevelt had the round bayonet replaced with a blade bayonet, the blade bayonet was the M1905. Some milled parts were replaced by stamped parts. The rear sight was changed to the one that we are more accustomed to seeing on the M1 Garand. Part of the re-designation to the 1903A3 came about due to the Springfield being adapted to a sniper rifle designated as the 1903A4. 1903s are rare, most had arsenal work done to refit them as 1903A3 rifles. On a separate note I see many people referencing the ammo carried by Walmart. The ammo sold at Walmart is not consistent nationally, they carry what sells in their area. Do you find this valuable? |
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MajorKrisis |
53. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 8 2012, 10:28 PM EDT
Sharpie, I don't remember kicking your dog so chill out a bit there :)In North Carolina, the 7.62x39 is just as readily available as the 5.56x45 caliber. Every major gun store in the area I live in (Eagle One, Lawmens, Fuquay Gun and Gold, Sovereign Guns, Mace Sports, Young Guns, Davis Public Safety, Handgunners) carries a wide selection of both. Wal Mart also carries both in my area, although both are ridiculously overpriced in that store IMHO. I won't argue your rifle point since you're particularly defensive about that, but if you've ever used/shot/owned one I think you would agree that it falls far short of anything you want a rifle to do, although its a very unique and functional weapon in a pinch. I carry mine in a get-home bag. It doesn't raise any eyebrows and it fits in a standard laptop case. 11ACR, find me a website or quote ANYWHERE where you can buy and AR for $550 and I'll buy it right now. Dixie Gun & Knife show was in town this weekend...best deals on ARs I saw was $750. I will admit that the AKs have gone up considerably ($550 at the gun show as compared to $400 when I bought mine about a year ago). Not sure if you've ever built a gun from the ground up before...not the easiest task. Clearly you've never cleaned an AR-15 before, because they are a beast. I can have my Glock and Ak-47 clean and shiny in about 5 to 10 minutes. for a good clean, an AR takes 30 minutes or more. My coworkers and I joke that we rarely shoot our ARs because (1) the ammo is too expensive and (2) its a $%&# to clean. As far as actually breaking down the gun, the AK47 has less steps, but I won't fight that point. Twice the accessories...sorry, not seeing it. Stock replacements, front grip replacements, upgraded mag releases, tiggers, varied mags...all the rest of the accessories can be used on both. I'd say they are tied at worst on that. Do you find this valuable? |
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Sharpie41 |
54. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 9 2012, 12:25 AM EDT
So is a Ruger 10/22 not a rifle because it "falls short" of anything you'd want a rifle to do?You said yourself it was a carbine, by definition a carbine is a short rifle. Do you find this valuable? |
ItsMrManCub |
55. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 9 2012, 12:30 AM EDT
"Clearly you've never cleaned an AR-15 before, because they are a beast. I can have my Glock and Ak-47 clean and shiny in about 5 to 10 minutes. for a good clean, an AR takes 30 minutes or more. "I cleaned mine last night. I cleaned both my AR and my XDm in less than 30 minutes. Passed my "white glove" test. Do you find this valuable? |
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11ACRBlackhorse |
56. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 9 2012, 8:26 AM EDT
| Post edited: May 9 2012, 8:37 AM EDT
MajorKrisis you need to chill as you seem to be the hostile one here1) ARs for $550 just happened at the last Dalton Gun Show and Massillon Gun Show. DMPS platforms if I remember right Never said building a gun is easy but by our AR expert here on ZSDW (Filladog) it can be done even without specialist tools. And I just read it in a Shot Gun News article a few issues back. And build for around $500 is for cheap but not a poor AR. AKs and SKSs are out selling ARs here 2) I take it you don't read threads completely. Because repeated I have stated I was in the 11ACR Blackhorse Regiment in Fulda W Germany. And yes I've cleaned more than my fair share of M16s and even M60s when they still existed. And if you think a M16 is a b#tch to clean you haven't cleaned a M60 Less steps than pulling one pin, letting the weapon break open then pull the charging handle back and bolt assembly falls into your hands I can have a M16 broken down for field cleaning and wiped down in less time than it took me to type this. So is 8yrs service enough AR cleaning experience for you 3) I can go to almost any gun store and find shelves of AR stuff but will be lucky to find more than mags and ammo for the AK. Pick up almost any gun publication and you will find AR stuff all through the publication, but lucky if there are more than two or three for the AK Know why? Because the rail system that made accessories easier to mount on anything was started on the M4. And veterans that carried the M4 now want their own to shoot for fun. AKs are catching up but they are still not even close to different varieties and number of choices So again when you are correct I will let you know. So far your WRONG!! As for Sharpie's comment on rifle. Sorry again Ruger calls it a rifle. And almost any 22LR gun with a 16"(+) barrel will almost always be called a rifle. Ok it's called a 22 rifle. So I guess your opinion is WRONG again. lmao Do you find this valuable? |
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Sharpie41 |
57. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 9 2012, 10:58 AM EDT
To add to 11 ACRs ease of cleaning comment. If a bunch of army cadets (12-18 year olds) can go into an armory and cleaning the militaries weapons (based to the AR-15 platform) with minimal instruction, some gun nuts can learn how. Do you find this valuable? |
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ItsMrManCub |
58. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 9 2012, 12:39 PM EDT
To be fair though it is not really rocket science to clean either the AK or the AR.
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MajorKrisis |
59. RE: Thought onthe list of top 10 rifles
May 9 2012, 2:49 PM EDT
My opinion can't actually be wrong because its my personal opinion. I don't own a .22lr because I believe its a sorry excuse for a rifle. Yes, it will still kill a man and yes it can still take down game, but there are a whole host of weapons that accomplish those same goals with much more consistency and efficiency. Great as a training weapon (M&P 22 for example) or plinker? Sure. Something I would take into combat with me? Absolutely not.An XDm takes about 5 minutes to clean like a Glock, so that doesn't surprise me that you did it in about 30 minutes for both weapons. Do you have the XDm in 9mm or .40 ManCub? Blackhorse, where are you located? I'm assuming its Georgia as you quoted the Dalton gun show prices. As I said, in NC its just as easy to find AK parts as it is AR parts, and online its almost easier. Also, I simply haven't found an AR for less than $700 in NC in a long time. Like I said, show me a link where I can buy it for $550 and I'll buy it today. Do you find this valuable? |
