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Discussion: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances.

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theman838	20. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 25 2012, 7:16 PM EDT Many people are taking the overbearing stance on personal freedoms that our government takes. This is a bad idea. 1. Leads to discontent in the populace 2. You have no right to control what someone does to themselves 3. Difficult to enforce. (See: Our current drug war on the southern border) Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Filadog	21. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 25 2012, 8:18 PM EDT "Fila: So basically you'd be a giant obnoxious douche of a dictator......remind me to never go to your society" I think anybody, even you, that said they would have rules as to what people could and couldnt do would be a "dictator" since I don't seem to remember anything about the person making these rules being elected by the people or that it was the people that came up with the rules. I think history has shown what I said has been the most succesful method for a community to be run and the norm for how most govements have ..and do... work Even today in the USA people that produce Alcohol have about 50% of what they sell it for go to the Goverment. If you get caught selling it with out giving the govement their cut while you might not get whipped you most likely will go to jail and loose your property Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	22. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 25 2012, 9:06 PM EDT "Enjoy, Marsden" Will you regulate who can consume alcohol? Usual "don't use it at work" rules apply. Likely have an age restriction for younger people according to developmental physiology. Will you regulate who can produce alcohol? Only for safety. One, stills can explode. Not with large force, but enough to cause injury. So make sure they are doing it right. Two, methanol can blind people. So make sure they are making good quality ****. Will you regulate who can consume the marijuana and magic mushrooms? Usual "don't use it at work" rules apply. Likely have an age restriction for younger people according to developmental physiology. Medical applications take priority over recreational. Will you regulate who can produce the marijuana and magic mushrooms? Yes. Me. I know I can do it, and I trust myself to make sure the shrooms don't get contaminated. Contaminated shrooms can kill. Weed anyone can do, but again I know I can do it well. Will you regulate who can use opium? Patients only. Despite the video Brandon linked, it is still a good painkiller, and post-Z there are going to be few alternatives for surgical patients. Will you regulate who can produce opium? Yes. Opium is useful as a painkiller, and we will probably need plenty of it. But I don't want a tainted batch killing anyone. Will you regulate access to firearms and weapons? Only according to quarantine and probationary period rules. Mandatory training by our resident expert for those who need it. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	23. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 25 2012, 9:20 PM EDT "Who exactly died and made you god over this community so that you can decide anything as to what people can or can't do?" Most of the people on the planet died. Kind of the main prerequisite for an apocalypse. Why would people listen to me? I built the BOL. I got the people in it to safety. I am The Smart Guy In The Room, by virtue of all that I have done to keep everyone living. Again, kind of a prerequisite to the survival scenario. I don't need "Police". I have logic and reason. I don't do anything on a whim. If I say something needs doing, then it comes from a genuine need of the group, not a want of my own. I have thought long and hard about the goal, the steps to achieve it, the alternatives and the drawbacks. I have evaluated all these before opening my mouth, because the one thing I need the decision to be is right, certain and correct. That means I have gathered as much information as possible and done everything I can to ensure that it is the best way forward. If someone is disagreeing with me, then I take every step to find out why. What information are they operating on that I don't have? Is it a dispute of facts, or opinions? If someone has incorrect facts, then get the right ones, re-evaluate the positions and see where you are. If opinions are all that are in the way, look at how my own might be coloured before assuming that theirs is the "wrong" one. Only once I am certain I am right do I try and change their mind. If the positions are intractable, then majority rule will have to carry it. That is where persuasion comes in. Making the hard choice is often unpleasant but necessary. Any good leader can convince people to do this. That you believe force is necessary to carry your will is disappointing. The vast majority of people can be reasoned with, and will do things that are to their inconvenience for the good of the social group. Contd. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	24. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 25 2012, 9:22 PM EDT Putting your trash in a bin. Cleaning up after your dog. Paying taxes for road repair, police services and firetrucks. Nobody enjoys doing these things, and their lives would be less inconvenient if they just ignored them. Yet societies function because people acknowledge the needs of others. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	25. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 25 2012, 9:27 PM EDT Medicinal uses of mushrooms (since opium=painkiller and marijuana's uses are covered by plenty of other sites) Psilocybin can be used to treat PTSD and chronic depression. Can reduce the pain of cluster headaches, symptoms of OCD and psychological effects of terminal cancer and other diseases. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Oakspar77777	26. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 25 2012, 9:35 PM EDT "Many people are taking the overbearing stance on personal freedoms that our government takes. This is a bad idea. " I agree that many here are taking a hard stand- and some are likely doing so out of a power trip or desire to control. Realize that the smaller the society and the more militant (and a post apoc society will likely be very small and very militant), the easier it is for a dictatorial system to work. I am also shocked, however, how laise fair many members are to things that are survival risks. For a group of people who are normally rather controling of their environments (survivalist seldom like loose ends), many here are being very liberal (moreso than most modern societies) on things that have great potential to destabalize your colony. Alcohol is likely one of the most destablizing forces in culture today (ask a cop how many domestic calls do not envolve its use). Sure, it can have a calming effect that could benefit a society in strict moderation - but such a post apoc world would come with streeses sure to increase abuse. I would expect most colonies would find a need to strictly regulate its consumption - not so much to age as to quantity. If you could limit your people to one or two drinks a day you would do much to aid stability and keep the colonies supply from going dry in a few binges. Pot and LSD should be off the colony. No benefits there at all. Do you really want psycotropic drugs in a world with walking undead cannibals? Who would even ever have a good trip in such a world? Pot also is the number one cause of looserdom in the US - as its only value is to make sitting on your arse for hours doing nothing constructive seem like a good time. That time is labour lost of the colony and there will be no time for the devil's idle hands. Post reply 4 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Oakspar77777	27. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 25 2012, 9:48 PM EDT "1. Leads to discontent in the populace 2. You have no right to control what someone does to themselves 3. Difficult to enforce. (See: Our current drug war on the southern border)" 1) A population that turns to vice is one that is discontent. Safety, stability, hard work, and full bellies all lead to contentment. 2) You have every right to control what others do to themselves, as they have the right to do the same to you. That is the nature of community. Where there is common safety, property, or threats, there is control. If you want to have noone putting expectations on your behavior (whether the leader or the lowest grunt) then you must live alone. Someone commits suicide? There is one less guard/labourer/etc. Someone reduces their productivity with a herin addiction, that effects everyone's dinnerplate. You are not your own. You were born helpless and for the first decade and a half or so had all you needs met by family and society. Until you are paying your own way and have provided for others to the level you consumed, you have a debt to society. For most people, by the time they have done that, they have the maturity to continue "paying it forward" for those last years when again, they will depend on others to help them through life. 3. Enforcement is a matter of deterance, elimination, and will. If the US started putting a bullet in the back of the head of every cokefiend, heroinjunkie, and pothead, the drug trade would die out in days. You might hide an urban pot farm in today's world, but in a colony of 150, you won't even be able to hide which sock is your Saturday night passtime. Everyone will be in everyone's buisness all of the time, whether you like it or not. Post reply 4 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
redcomrad	28. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 25 2012, 10:07 PM EDT "I agree that many here are taking a hard stand- and some are likely doing so out of a power trip or desire to control. Realize that the smaller the society and the more militant (and a post apoc society will likely be very small and very militant), the easier it is for a dictatorial system to work. " wow, never thought we had so much in common. i know that certain drugs have benefits which could be useful so that's the reason why i don't ban them completely so that they can be used for what they are useful for. im just making sure its used properly so that it actually benefits society rather than hurts it. Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
IamSlowRide	29. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 25 2012, 11:16 PM EDT @Filadog so in your post apoch society you would remove from people their right to bare arms? I personally don't tolerate that now and would not tolerate it in your community, which is to say I would hit the road and wish you luck with your dictatorship, I don't plan on allowing the US government take my firearms why would I let you. Let's be real crimes are committed in society with or without weapons, taking away the guns won't stop crime from happening in your happy little hamlet. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Sharpie41	30. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 25 2012, 11:51 PM EDT " I think anybody, even you, that said they would have rules as to what people could and couldnt do would be a "dictator" since I don't seem to remember anything about the person making these rules being elected by the people or that it was the people that came up with the rules. I think history has shown what I said has been the most succesful method for a community to be run and the norm for how most govements have ..and do... work Even today in the USA people that produce Alcohol have about 50% of what they sell it for go to the Goverment. If you get caught selling it with out giving the govement their cut while you might not get whipped you most likely will go to jail and loose your property" The rules would only be for safety, not for my own personal gain. Go back and read my post, tell me which parts are overbearing Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Filadog	31. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 26 2012, 7:35 AM EDT "Why would people listen to me? I built the BOL. I got the people in it to safety. I am The Smart Guy In The Room, ...I don't need "Police". I have logic and reason. I don't do anything on a whim." I believe it is rather egotistical and shows a lack of understanding of human nature to think that people will do what you tell them just because you beileve you are the "Smart Guyin the Room" and knows what is best for them. After all are you going to do something that you might not want to and that you think is wrong just because the person telling you may believe just as strongly that they are smarter and honestly think it is the right thing for you to do? If you arn't why do you think others will? What are your plans for when the first person...or group of people...think maybe they are the "Smart Guy in the Room" and refuse to listen to you no matter how logical YOU think what you want them to do is. I am quite sure they will feel they have just as good reason not to do as you want. No leader, or goverment, can expect it's laws to be followed by just hoping that the people will do what they say because the leader is smarter and knows what is best Do you think people don't drive over the speed limit now because they believe the goverment is smarter then them and knows how fast they should drive or do you think they are worried bout getting caught by the police and having to pay a fine or lose thier license? This is the difference between a Law and a Recommendation or Request Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Filadog	32. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 26 2012, 7:59 AM EDT "@Filadog so in your post apoch society you would remove from people their right to bare arms? I personally don't tolerate that now and would not tolerate it in your community, which is to say I would hit the road and wish you luck with your dictatorship,...... Let's be real crimes are committed in society with or without weapons, taking away the guns won't stop crime from happening in your happy little hamlet." I think in the scenario that Marsden set up, where you are the dictator of a community who comes up with the rules as to what people can and can not do it is very important to not alow the people you are telling what to do the means to prevent you from enforcing these laws If you have a law that regulates or bans something do you really want the people that it affects to be well armed? Remember as this scenario is set up you are a dictator and while you may actually believe what you are doing is the best for the people it is you and not the people that are deciding what is best for them. This has a tendency to not go over well [as your post has pointed out] While I might today personaly believe as you do in personal liberty and the right to be armed in a scenario like this it's not what we are talking about Instead it is about you are going to be in a postion where you make the laws and force the people that might not want to to obey them. I don't think you want them people to be armed Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Filadog	33. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 26 2012, 8:18 AM EDT "Go back and read my post, tell me which parts are overbearing" You said about Marijuana...." Only for personal use, you sell it to others, WORK PARTY!!..."! Do you believe that a talented pot farmer who makes a good part of his living by growing this crop and selling or teading it wouldn't believe that the law that you you came up with preventing him from making a livelyhood wasn't overbearing? If a dictator came up with a law that prevented you from selling something that you were selling that was legal to own and use you wouldn't think that was overbearing.? Do you think it would be overbearing if a dictator makes it illegal to sell corn or potatos to others ? I doubt if many dictators think they are being overbearing when they tell thier people what to do Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
IrishHitman	34. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 26 2012, 8:19 AM EDT "I am also shocked, however, how laise fair many members are to things that are survival risks. For a group of people who are normally rather controling of their environments (survivalist seldom like loose ends), many here are being very liberal (moreso than most modern societies) on things that have great potential to destabalize your colony." Well, we have a lack of mandate to impose harsher rules, nor the real means to enforce them... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Sharpie41	35. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 26 2012, 8:44 AM EDT " You said about Marijuana...." Only for personal use, you sell it to others, WORK PARTY!!..."! Do you believe that a talented pot farmer who makes a good part of his living by growing this crop and selling or teading it wouldn't believe that the law that you you came up with preventing him from making a livelyhood wasn't overbearing? If a dictator came up with a law that prevented you from selling something that you were selling that was legal to own and use you wouldn't think that was overbearing.? Do you think it would be overbearing if a dictator makes it illegal to sell corn or potatos to others ? I doubt if many dictators think they are being overbearing when they tell thier people what to do" Over prolonged use marijuana can put holes in your brain, corn or potatoes have never done that. Also a lot of tomes marijuana is laced with pesticides and other crap, if I was to ever smoke weed, I would grow it myself so I'd know what was in it. It's a safety thing, you want to smoke it, you grow it yourself Post reply 3 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
PedroAsani	36. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 26 2012, 9:11 AM EDT "I believe it is rather egotistical and shows a lack of understanding of human nature to think that people will do what you tell them just because you beileve you are the "Smart Guyin the Room" and knows what is best for them." Do you really think I am going to tell someone what to do without an explanation of exactly why it is necessary? The whole point about me finding out the reasons for disagreements and then logcally overcoming them is centred around getting consensus, explaining the reasons and understanding differences of opinion. My plans when someone refuses something? As before, understand and explain. When I am wrong, adjust the plan. When I am right, explain exactly why that is. Logic, in it's proper form, isn't opinion based. It is wholly defined by facts. And facts aren't biased. They just exist. Speed limits should be based on the road conditions, traffic flow, driver competence and quality/safety of vehicles on the road. However, this would mean a regular measurement of the factors and adjustment of speed limit. The goal of a speed limit is to limit the number of accidents. But since their introduction, no adjustment has taken place, and so they are now seen as arbitrary. Breaking the limits has become more commonplace, since they are outdated for the risk/reward factor. Tougher punishments were brought in to address the breaking of the law, rather than about enforcing safety. Current government systems do not focus on what is best for the people. They do not use logical systems. The people in charge are not the smartest people, or the best qualified to do the job. In the context of my BOL, I am the Leader because I have accumulated the knowledge and skills to run and oversee every aspect of it. I won't be the best shot. I won't be the biologist, the doctor, the farmer. But I know enough of all fields to manage, oversee and plan the entire complex. In that sense, I am the Smart Guy because I am the expert. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	37. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 26 2012, 9:21 AM EDT "Do you believe that a talented pot farmer who makes a good part of his living by growing this crop..." How would he make a living selling it? Currency is going to be obsolete since it isn't backed by anything. Food is the mainstay of the barter system. If the pot farmer is spending all his time on the crop, then he doesn't get a share of the food. Now for payment he gets a portion of food, but depending on the size of the group and the number of customers, someone is still going to go hungry. In a smaller group the lack of one days ration is more noticeable. 9/10 is less than 49/50. And in a BOL, everyone works to contribute to the food stores. The concept of "selling" is not going to exist except in very large groups, probably over the 150 mark. Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
=jesse=	38. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 26 2012, 10:31 AM EDT I don't think Fila would be a douche...he did say if he was Emperor with magical powers....lol Seriously though, those decisions are too much for one person. Assuming I was in a leadership role and my words carried weight, I'd put it to a vote in the community for a 'board' or group leadership. If we have 150 people, I'm sure we can find 9 or 11 respectable people (odd to have majority vote) who represent different ideals and ways of thinking. Let representatives of this board communicate with their constituents. Personally, I would not take sole leadership over such a large community. It's too much power, and there are no checks and balances. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Filadog	39. RE: Scenario-Regulation of Weapons, Drugs and Other Prohibited Substances. Apr 26 2012, 12:55 PM EDT "How would he make a living selling it? Currency is going to be obsolete since it isn't backed by anything. Food is the mainstay of the barter system. If the pot farmer is spending all his time on the crop, then he doesn't get a share of the food." Actually I said by selling or trading it [ though had a typo spelling teading] Is your augument that in a society with out currency the only way a person can make a living is by just growing food?...Really? So you really don't believe that others historicaly never made a living in these currency less societys by providing other goods and services to people that wanted them? I imagine people that spent thier day making things that others wanted such as tools, weapons, pottery, etc. could make a living by trading it to others that didn't or couldn't make them. This has probably been going on since a skilled flint knapper discovered that he could trade his spear heads for a fish from a guy that was a better fisherman then flint knaper So you think the making and trading of wine or other alcoholic beverages didn't happen in communitys that didn't have currency? Of course nothing says that our banned pot farmer isn't growing food for himself as well and his pot harvest is to trade to others for other things that maybe he can't produce or find Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?

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