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Location: BigLoki's "Fortress"
Discussion: Re visiting an older idea.
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BigLoki |
Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 20 2012, 12:30 PM EDT
I've had this up for a while. Unfortunately things haven't worked out as I have liked, and I am not as close to building this as I would have liked to be. So, instead of moaning about it, I want to take the extra time as an opportunity to refine the design. Any "serious" criticism would be appreciated. I will not be setting up razor wire, explosives, or gun turrets.This will be a primary dwelling. I only want some measures of safety in case something were to happen. I'm not looking to hold off the National Guard at the gates immediately. I'm only looking at some reasonable ability to defend the location. The idea is to use subtle design concepts to accomplish security. For example, the garage door closing into a slot below the height of the driveway is something nobody will notice, but it increases the strength of the door considerably. The small windows on the first floor my look a BIT odd at a glance, but less so than being barred up in my opinion. Any ideas, or suggestions will be appreciated. I will likely start re-designing in a few weeks, and when I have it finished, will re-post. Better than not utilizing the extra time. I only plan to build it once, I have no problem building it on paper a dozen times until I feel it is "right". Thanks Do you find this valuable?
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SovietPrince |
1. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 20 2012, 1:17 PM EDT
i haven't seen that model in forever!i have an interesting tip. Though i think you're good.. doesn't look like the first floor has any windows.. or so it seems. oh.. you said you have small windows on the first floor. okay. well, this is just a neat thought, but the way my house is built, you can only get in through the living room window. Everything else is at least 5'6" off the ground. the house is elevated(its very structurally sound, we just have a not-crawlspace crawlspace) from ground level, there are two steps to get into the house. the garage is an addon, from foreverago. anywho, my tip is to try and have the windows as high off the ground as possible. since you're doing a 2 story design, this is kinda useless. but, could cut costs if you decide to go to a single story design, your house can still be fortified against the hordes. as a final point... im 6 foot tall, and my bedroom's window sill is higher than that. Do you find this valuable? |
AlphaOneFour |
2. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 20 2012, 1:33 PM EDT
You could go with full-sized windows on the ground floor, and have recessed rolling shutters above them, as well as opening ones on the outside for a look that fits in with your house, but also allows the weak points to be sealed off in case of an attack.More expensive, but also nicer to live in pre-SHTF. Do you find this valuable? |
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SovietPrince |
3. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 20 2012, 1:45 PM EDT
"You could go with full-sized windows on the ground floor, and have recessed rolling shutters above them, as well as opening ones on the outside for a look that fits in with your house, but also allows the weak points to be sealed off in case of an attack.i did forget about hurricane shutters.. that's what alpha is talking about. they are VERY nice. generally though, only crackhouses use them ;) 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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BigLoki |
4. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 20 2012, 1:56 PM EDT
I thought about those too.. I may reconsider it, but the lower floor is just bedrooms mainly. I spent most of my time with the windows in the bedroom trying to keep light out. Made more sense to me to just make them smaller rather than add expense, and still try to keep the room dark.
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SovietPrince |
5. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 20 2012, 2:44 PM EDT
hmm.. all the bedrooms on the ground floor...see, i would do that(basically reversing floors right?) and put a deck over the garage i'd honestly, if i built a house on considerable land, would want to have a large concrete portion going around the house that would raise the house a couple extra feet. i'd have to draw it up in CAD to show you what i mean. Do you find this valuable? |
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BigLoki |
6. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 20 2012, 4:50 PM EDT
Well, it's a dwelling first and foremost. I don't mind small windows, and general dimness while trying to sleep, or doing laundry. I prefer brightness, and airflow while I am up and about, which would constitute the main floor. By having the man floor above, I can safely have the larger windows, and unobstructed airflow. That open plan would feel more like a prison with itty bitty windows.
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shadowmancer |
7. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 20 2012, 5:30 PM EDT
| Post edited: Jun 20 2012, 5:38 PM EDT
What about using steel shutters for your windows? They are simple to fabricate and look rather attractive when painted and installed correctly. Originally shutters were functional items for storms and they became decorative pieces later. With a little modification to the design of a traditional shutter I believe it would work. The addition of hard point in the wall to lock them in place will increase their durability and allow you to lock and unlock them only from the inside. You would have a security feature which would look decorative. I To me the best defences are the ones that go unnoticed in the current world. The bonus with this Idea is that you don’t have to have your windows sealed constantly only when you require it. With the modified steel shutters you could use full sized windows.It’s just an idea floating around in my head. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
PedroAsani |
8. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 20 2012, 6:26 PM EDT
You may want to use funnel points on the wall. These are places where it is easier to get in, for example on a ten foot wall you have a few small sections which are only 9 feet high. This gives you known places to expect breaches, so you can plan to take most shots at these areas.The balcony might need thicker posts, particularly if it is going to hold a lot of people. You should assume the worst case scenario: every square foot holding a 150lb person. This matters, because you will need thicker posts (reducing certain lines of sight) and probably more of them. Four in total on the open side should do, likely 9-12 inches thick. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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BigLoki |
9. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 21 2012, 12:26 PM EDT
Bump: For knowledge...hahaDo you find this valuable? |
Oakspar77777 |
10. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 21 2012, 2:25 PM EDT
The wall will be a big expense due to its size, even with an earthcore fill. Don't know how to help you with that, but I would consider is a second project for after the house was constructed. When frameing the area around the doors, overbuild. You want to have solid tie-ins for crossbars to be bolted into (the actual bolting could be saved for post-apoc). Have you considered taking the deck around the house, or at least over the garage? The difference between decking over the garage with a slab deck and the roofing and eaves is not that much $$, and it would easily double your very nice deck (and giving yourself two sides of deck gives your deck a 360 degree line of fire). Water - I'm not sure if you plan to be on city water or a well, but I would suggest a well (or second well) for the garden with a windmill and watertower. This will let you irrigate your garden, keep the pond full during dry times (make sure your gutters are piped to your pond!), and can keep the pumping in your house working post-apoc (put the tower line on an open hose spicket and disconnect the line to county water or the well, and the tower will put water pressure on your house lines (not much, but enough to flush and run the sink). Uneven wind stinks for electricity, but works fine for a water pump into a tank (with full-tank shut off). Make sure, if at all possible, to be on septic lines - tanks and city sewers are bad choices post apoc - but lines will work forever. Don't garden over the lines, but they do keep the pasture growing green. A central wood stove downstairs would be ideal. Not only could you keep dry wood in the garage, but you wouldn't track it through half the house to put it in. A good wood stove would heat the entire house. 5 acres is enough to keep an acre or two in lumber. I would suggest oaks, since you can use the acorns as feed (turkey, pig, goats, and tree-rats love acorns). 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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BigLoki |
11. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 21 2012, 2:37 PM EDT
Thanks everybody, there are some really good ideas, and observations here... this is exactly what I was hoping for.
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Oakspar77777 |
12. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 21 2012, 3:06 PM EDT
Figure out which direction the prevailing wind goes - and make sure the pond is downwind. Home ponds sometimes smell and being down wind will solve that problem and greatly reduce the mosquitoes. If you have an acre garden, you will want a tractor. It looks like you are going to have enough open area to justify one for the mowing alone. Put a barrier between your garden and the rest of the world. If you get a lot of rain, a good ditch around it will help it drain and keep a downpour from washing away your soil. If you are somewhere dry, then a hillock around it or a solid barrier (logs, lumber, brick or block, etc) will help keep water in. I would also suggest considering what you might do for livestock. You can fence the livestock in or fence the garden out - either works. If your pond is .5 acre or larger, I would suggest either Swedish or Muscovy ducks. Both will feed themselves most of the year on weeds, grass, bugs, and duckweed. Muscovy are more independent and will breed better, the Swedish are better egg layers and will work the grass better. I'm not sure what you plan to do for a gate - you could have two gates on tracts (in and outside of the wall), allowing you to fill in between them and complete the wall. Of course, once set, you would not be opening it again. I would also consider having two solid gates, creating a 3' "airlock" area inbetween (great for letting someone it who is running from Zed without risking a zed getting it behind them). The drive could be a landbridge, or you could put in a floodbridge grate (a solid bridge frame with a metal grate that is driven on - common in bridges that are low traffic and often flood). The grate could be easily pulled up (with a vehicle or team of people), leaving only the sides as a foot path until you put the grate back in when you need to drive out post-apoc. Do you find this valuable? |
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SovietPrince |
13. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 21 2012, 4:15 PM EDT
oakspar has some real great info and tips.I personally just couldn't deal with all that work.if i had the time and money, things would be different. to live self sufficiently is great, but damnit if it isnt alot of work. Do you find this valuable? |
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BigLoki |
14. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 21 2012, 4:26 PM EDT
The work isn't the issue. It's the initial layout. However... if you weigh that out with the costs you're not incurring... you come out ahead. Livestock and that wasn't a strong part of my plan, as I'm no farmer, and have little to no knowledge of caring for it. Gardening I'm fairly good at. I was thinking maybe some chickens, and rabbits, as they aren't too much to care for. Fish in the pond, game in the area, eggs, and protein in a pinch. I'm wanting to balance self sufficiency with the rest of life. Then in the event of SHTF the transition to full on self sufficiency is workable. That's the plan anyhow.@Oakspar The dual gate is a good idea, I like it. I will definitely be working that in. Maybe the deck wrapping around, I like that too. As for the land bridge idea... the only available entry point is there, which also happens to be where most of the deck is facing. Easy to cover. I am hoping that a remote location will aid with most problems. I know that hoping isn't planning, but it seems reasonable that I could hold off some that happen to wander out towards me, rather than in an occupied area, trying to hold off those around me. The septic lines were considered, and will be implemented. I haven't heard too much about wells drying out, but the water tower is worth looking into for sure. Thanks for all the ideas, and feedback. Do you find this valuable? |
StrykerPez |
15. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 21 2012, 6:45 PM EDT
One thing nobody mentioned... unless you live in the plains, why not use natural terrain to your advantage?I've given this one some thought. If you can find land that is somehow "unique" and has some kind of natural defense, your job is that much easier. Example (that I've looked at near me): A steep rocky canyon with a small stream at the bottom. An ancient oxbow bend in the stream had carved a sort of huge rocky outcropping, facing upstream, that backed up to a steep rocky hill. With some dozer work you could get a driveway to the top of the rock outcropping and build your house up there. Now you don't have to build a wall around the whole property. Build a "gatehouse" at the choke point of your driveway, and possibly some "battlements" around the side of the outcropping, some area denial (plants including nettles, poison ivy, and thornbushes, grown over several rows of stock-fencing) along the ridge behind you. The area denial stuff should work for anyone to chance wandering in your back yard, and the front side would be easy to defend. Nobody is breaching or climbing a 200 foot rock face to get up to your house, so less worry from that side. The last point is the gatehouse, and if you've built it strong you shouldn't have much to worry about. Sorry if that's hard to picture, It would make perfect sense if I could point out to you exactly the canyon I have in mind. In any case, each piece of terrain is different, so your best bet would be to look around and pick a type of terrain you'd like to try to defend (a canyon, like above; maybe a mountaintop; or the back end of a valley) and then devise a flexible plan to go with it. CON'T Do you find this valuable? |
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StrykerPez |
16. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 21 2012, 6:49 PM EDT
A canyon is going to be the most difficult in that the shape and size of everything you build is going to be dictated by the area you choose, whereas a mountaintop is basically an old medieval castle, and a valley end is Helms Deep LOL
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Uzzgub |
17. RE: Re visiting an older idea.
Jun 21 2012, 8:35 PM EDT
I agree with Stryker, try and use the terrain to your advantage, for example a old school "mote and bailey" i.e. your house at the top of a hill and the wall around the brow of the hill.Some thing else I was thinking was making sure your outer wall would be strong enough to build a fighting platform on top of it as a form of battlements. Maybe storing enough chin link fencing to go around the outer wall so you can plant fast growing bushes/creepers like ivy, or black berries to block LoS to your wall, it don't need to be strong just there for it to grow up, but this would be an expensive option to do and depends on your cash flow Do you find this valuable? |
