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Discussion: Firing SquadReported This is a featured thread This thread was locked for the following reason: (none given).

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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
20. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:32 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:32 PM EDT
"So in your mind, the judge should throw the switch, the General should push the button, and the President should pull the trigger. Interesting concept... I see how this is put into place everywhere."
Absolutely. The responsibility for killing someone does not belong, and should not reside in, the hands of a $14 an hour prison guard; a 2nd Leiutenant with a key; or one of your group at the BOL.

*You* order someone dead, *you* make them dead. Then you have to live with it.
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SovietPrince
SovietPrince
21. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:34 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:34 PM EDT
"That's certainly one school of thought on it. I wasn't very focused on that particular piece of the puzzle, in the sense of making them dead. I was trying to figure a way to do it what was more acceptable for those that remain. Not because I lack the balls to take a life... I think I'm covered there. Not because I would fear reprisal from the group, as I can take my leave, same as anyone else. If what they have done is so bad they need to be eliminated, then it's not for their benefit either.

As to doing it myself. It's hard to lead when you are thought of as a brutal murderer... unless that is the kind of settlement you are fostering.

For a designated single executioner... we would all be living together in close quarters. I wouldn't ask of any one person to end lives of those they live with consistently. This left the "did I, or didn't I option". I see no cowardice in it. Actually I about snorted Pepsi out of my nose, at the thought of Pedro implying that.

"
eh, i say release to the hordes.

with no clothes or any tools.

but a banana. or some other banana shaped object.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
22. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:34 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:34 PM EDT
"i'm gonnaside with MD and loki here...

you're just jealous that wehave the ability to gun derps down.

^_^"
I have already said that at my BOL, if capital punishment were required and deemed necessary, I would be the one to carry it out.

I have no issue with doing this when required. But it will meet my personal high standards, or it won't happen. Because I am the one who will live with that decision, and I will be the one who has to account for it.
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SovietPrince
SovietPrince
23. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:35 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:35 PM EDT
"Absolutely. The responsibility for killing someone does not belong, and should not reside in, the hands of a $14 an hour prison guard; a 2nd Leiutenant with a key; or one of your group at the BOL.

*You* order someone dead, *you* make them dead. Then you have to live with it."
you do that, amidst your island compound.

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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
24. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:36 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:36 PM EDT
"also, if you have had someone commit such a crime that execution is on the table, it shouldn't be a matter of screwing around about how to do it. whoever pulls the trigger/swings the hatchet/presses the button has saved the group alot of grief."
Really?

You think that there is an agreed line for capital punishment? That everyone in a group will acknowledge that it exists in the same place, and that it will be clear when it is needed, when it is warranted and justified?

Three people can't agree on a restaurant for lunch. Try and get them to agree on when the death penalty should be applied. I guarantee you won't get a consensus.
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SovietPrince
SovietPrince
25. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:39 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:39 PM EDT
"I have already said that at my BOL, if capital punishment were required and deemed necessary, I would be the one to carry it out.

I have no issue with doing this when required. But it will meet my personal high standards, or it won't happen. Because I am the one who will live with that decision, and I will be the one who has to account for it."
to befeared or to be loved.
the balancing of both,
i believe it was decided that a little more fear than love is required from your subjects. start being the executioner and you become farmore feared than loved.

Its not difficult to live knowing you've taken a life.
given the possible circumstances, you're likely to have already done so,
it is a way of life. in order to remain alive.
either your people will fear you(and ultimately off you) or nobody will give a damn about the supposed "responsibility"
personally, i feel that the leader needs to not be burdened by such things. he has to think for the ENTIRE unit. no matter how big that is.

you start having mental breakdowns and people question your integrity to lead.
and you are knocked from your position.
and everything you've worked to build is lost.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
26. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:40 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:40 PM EDT
"As to doing it myself. It's hard to lead when you are thought of as a brutal murderer... unless that is the kind of settlement you are fostering.

For a designated single executioner... we would all be living together in close quarters. I wouldn't ask of any one person to end lives of those they live with consistently. This left the "did I, or didn't I option". I see no cowardice in it. Actually I about snorted Pepsi out of my nose, at the thought of Pedro implying that."
There. Right there. "Brutal murderer". That is the point.

If you can justify the death, then it isn't murder. By definition.

That it might lead to group friction is just one facet of this problem. And if some people are questioning it, then at some point that doubt is going to get to you.

Being absolutely certain when you apply the absolute certainty of death is a must.
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SovietPrince
SovietPrince
27. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:40 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:40 PM EDT
"Really?

You think that there is an agreed line for capital punishment? That everyone in a group will acknowledge that it exists in the same place, and that it will be clear when it is needed, when it is warranted and justified?

Three people can't agree on a restaurant for lunch. Try and get them to agree on when the death penalty should be applied. I guarantee you won't get a consensus."
post apoc world.

someoneis murdered. andproven guilty.

that warrants death.
anyone that wants tosay otherwiseis being daft.
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vampirejediknight
vampirejediknight
28. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:41 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:41 PM EDT
This is turning into a repeat of that old "How Would You Execute Someone" thread. Frankly, I don't see this being any more civil or ending in a different fate.
Seriously, calm down.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
29. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:46 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:46 PM EDT
"to befeared or to be loved.
the balancing of both,
i believe it was decided that a little more fear than love is required from your subjects. start being the executioner and you become farmore feared than loved.

Its not difficult to live knowing you've taken a life.
given the possible circumstances, you're likely to have already done so,
it is a way of life. in order to remain alive.
either your people will fear you(and ultimately off you) or nobody will give a damn about the supposed "responsibility"
personally, i feel that the leader needs to not be burdened by such things. he has to think for the ENTIRE unit. no matter how big that is."
Feared or loved? I ask for neither. Being a leader is a thankless, difficult task. Anyone who comes along *who can do it better* can have it. It isn't something I want, but I happen to be good at it.

"It is not difficult to live knowing you've taken a life." Come back when you have done so. I know several people who through the course of their employment in the services have done so. Not one of them finds it easy. They find a way, but saying that it is "not difficult" is a gross naivete that belies your lack of knowledge.

A leader *should* be burdened by these things. They are a burden. They are great responsibilities. You need to recognise them for what they are. Don't blithely run over the topics, but sit and think about the ramifications for every action you take, because post-apocalypse, they are going to be herculean in their magnitude. You will be one of the last people on the planet. Condemning another to death will be just as big a deal as it should be today.
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SovietPrince
SovietPrince
30. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:48 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:48 PM EDT
"Feared or loved? I ask for neither. Being a leader is a thankless, difficult task. Anyone who comes along *who can do it better* can have it. It isn't something I want, but I happen to be good at it.

"It is not difficult to live knowing you've taken a life." Come back when you have done so. I know several people who through the course of their employment in the services have done so. Not one of them finds it easy. They find a way, but saying that it is "not difficult" is a gross naivete that belies your lack of knowledge.

A leader *should* be burdened by these things. They are a burden. They are great responsibilities. You need to recognise them for what they are. Don't blithely run over the topics, but sit and think about the ramifications for every action you take, because post-apocalypse, they are going to be herculean in their magnitude. You will be one of the last people on the planet. Condemning another to death will be just as big a deal as it should be today."
you obviously have no sense of the word "leader"

that's machiavelli, brainiack
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
31. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:48 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:48 PM EDT
"you start having mental breakdowns and people question your integrity to lead.
and you are knocked from your position.
and everything you've worked to build is lost."
Mental breakdowns? Absolutely. PTSD is a distinct possibility, and one of the few ways to avoid this is to be sure and certain that the killing is justified. To carry it out yourself cements that certainty or shows the doubt in stark relief.

Lost position? As I said, anyone who can do a better job than I is welcome to it. Who would actively pursue such a burden?

The BOL would not be lost. Leadership would change hands but the occupants would continue and endure.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
32. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:50 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:50 PM EDT
"post apoc world.

someoneis murdered. andproven guilty.

that warrants death.
anyone that wants tosay otherwiseis being daft."
But that is just one example. There are many examples where a grey area will cast doubt, where there can be no certainty. And maybe the penalty will be asked for in lesser crimes by some people, but not others. This happens every day.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
33. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 7:58 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 7:58 PM EDT
"you obviously have no sense of the word "leader"

that's machiavelli, brainiack"
The ability to quote The Prince (which by the way was not a how-to leadership manual, but a skewering critique of the Medici family) does not make you an authority on leadership.

The ability to lead does not require fear, nor love. The ability to use logic and reason, to be able to corral people in order to achieve a goal, to view a problem and perceive a solution; all these are needed for good leadership.

You want to have a dick measuring contest, take it to PM and we can see what the other has accomplished so far. Otherwise, personal attacks will see this thread locked, I don't care that I have written in here myself.
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SovietPrince
SovietPrince
34. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 8:09 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 8:09 PM EDT
"The ability to quote The Prince (which by the way was not a how-to leadership manual, but a skewering critique of the Medici family) does not make you an authority on leadership.

The ability to lead does not require fear, nor love. The ability to use logic and reason, to be able to corral people in order to achieve a goal, to view a problem and perceive a solution; all these are needed for good leadership.

You want to have a dick measuring contest, take it to PM and we can see what the other has accomplished so far. Otherwise, personal attacks will see this thread locked, I don't care that I have written in here myself."
when have I personally attacked you?
why would i want to prove that brits have short dicks?

also, i not only quote it, but give a damn better reasoning for what im arguing. but whatever. you insist that your island fortress and your system is the best. That's cool. to each his own.

Personally, I think you'd be executed by your own best friend.
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PedroAsani
PedroAsani
35. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 8:15 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 8:15 PM EDT
"when have I personally attacked you?"
Brainiack. And you spelled that wrong, too.
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SovietPrince
SovietPrince
36. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 8:19 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 8:19 PM EDT
"

The ability to lead does not require fear, nor love. The ability to use logic and reason, to be able to corral people in order to achieve a goal, to view a problem and perceive a solution; all these are needed for good leadership.

"
your people need to love you enough to trust your decisions as leader.

your people need to fear you in the sense that they are safe with you. and that you shouldnt be crossed.

with that said, being able to play judge, jury, and executioner is a decision that should be made democratically as a group. if the majority want one person, fine.
firing squad, fine.
usually, the leader has full say in the group when he declares himself to be the above three positions.

figure i might as well relate all this to the topic since you feel like you want to lock everything, Pedro
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SovietPrince
SovietPrince
37. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 8:20 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 8:20 PM EDT
"Brainiack. And you spelled that wrong, too."
love how you are so persistent.
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BigLoki
BigLoki
38. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 8:48 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 8:48 PM EDT
In the end.. I appreciate your input, as I have asked for it. Whether it is agreed with or not, I hope you see my reasoning for setting it up like that. If not... it will still be like that, and is of no consequence to those that disagree. The odds of any of us being in the same group are even slimmer than the zombies coming. Even if we were in close proximity, there would be the "who is in charge" issue. I will agree to disagree, and see your point of view, i just elect to follow my own. Nothing more, nothing less. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Oakspar77777
Oakspar77777
39. RE: Firing Squad
Jun 25 2012, 9:23 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2012, 9:23 PM EDT
The shooter should be able to tell if it was a blank or a live round (a blank would just have the bullet pulled and replaced with a cottonball).

Therefore, why not just charge the action of the guns with only one with a round in the chamber. The shooters would not know which gun had a round in it, but you would still know if someone in the line didn't fire when you took the guns back up and pulled the trigger.

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