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timberrattler |
Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 8 2012, 3:53 PM EDT
| Post edited: Aug 8 2012, 3:55 PM EDT
In the iconic thread started by SasquatchJim about tactical vests we discussed wether or not a person should get all "tactical" with their gear or wether they should be as "low key" as possible. We also touched on this in LJ126's thread on handguns being the best general purpose firearm.Now I've thought about this a lot since Jim and LJ's threads first hit the wiki. LJ126 and DevilNuts changed the way I thought about the subject but I've gotta say if you aren't trying to look badass you might present yourself as a "soft target". Put yourself in the shoes of a bad guy. If you saw a guy who looked like he wasn't carrying would you A) Leave him alone because he appeared to be unarmed or B) Jack that fool because doing so would be stupid simple? Yeah the joke would be on the baddie when you pulled your Glock 19 out of your holster but in the process of your surprise attack members of your family could get gunned down. So I'm going to kick a dead horse and ask. Which do you think you'd rather present yourself as? A soft target or a hard target? Do you find this valuable?
Keyword tags:
hard target
soft target
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LWJ2009 |
1. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 8 2012, 4:00 PM EDT
Depends on where your at and what everybody else is doing Timber. If your trying to blend in and not paint a bullseye on your forehead you don't need to look tactical, because if people don't feel like asking questions your going to get dead pretty quickly. If you look like a merc that is up to no good and people don't know you, then you could be quite screwed. If you look like a lost soul who does not intend to invade their local town they might just let you be. Besides attitude is more important than looks, you might have all sorts of gear but if you can't handle it or lack confidence in yourself people will pick up on it and single you out anways. If I am kicking in somebodies door to raid their house, you bet I want a carrier with the SAPI's in it and all that good stuff. If I am planning on getting into a fight, I want to have as much armor and gear as possible to increase my chances and make life easier. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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timberrattler |
2. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 8 2012, 4:15 PM EDT
I agree enviroment is a factor.We have a sixth sense of sorts when it comes to judging our fellow man. Look at grade schoolers, they can pick up on who's weak and vulnerable in their class and that child will be the one that they pick on. Raiders and bad guys can pick up on an individual much like a lion picks up on which water buffalo to pick out of a herd. Animals will raise their hackles and bare their teeth when threatened. It's their way of saying back the f^ck off. Casual clothing and no sign of a firearm while packing a nice fat backpack screams vulnerable to a predator IMO. Do you find this valuable? |
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BigLoki |
3. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 8 2012, 4:17 PM EDT
Neither really, not in that "black or white" sense. I will be a bit tactical, because it is comfortable, and keeps the things I need to have handy... well, handy. I won't be running around in BDUs, or with a ceramic plate carrier either. I guess I'd look a bit like a movie magic hunting guide...haha. I would openly carry what it is necessary to openly carry. (Rifle, machete, whatever) and stash what could be stashed. I don't think that by looking like I fell off the back of a SWAT truck, I will be deterring anyone with the intent to do me harm. On the other end, I do think that by looking defenseless, those that were on the fence about a confrontation may be swayed to the "dark side" by presenting yourself as an easy mark. I think I'm more for the gray area in between. I also don't want to be mistaken for an authority figure. I want to look like I'm on an extended hunting trip through rough country, because essentially that's what I would be doing. Do you find this valuable? |
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LWJ2009 |
4. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 8 2012, 4:24 PM EDT
"I agree enviroment is a factor.A tan blackhawk leg holster and a coyote tan bag are what I would normally have on my person. I also have a mag pouch that will attach to my bag if I want to be tactical and not use my pockets to carry spare mags. I would just appear to be an armed redneck which is something most folks would not bat an eye at here. Carhart and camo with a UW ballcap signals that I am a good old boy. However being armed also conveys the leave me alone message I am not a damn liberal, which could attract some very unwanted attention. Predators want an easy meal, not a fight that could cost them their life. Do you find this valuable? |
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TheRumple |
5. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 8 2012, 4:37 PM EDT
I think BigLoki is taking the same track I am. If you look like either extreme people "know" more or less how to judge you, for better or worse. If you look somewhere in the grey between the extremes, people will have to guess. In that kind of scenario, there is a lot riding on a potential raider's guess.Of course, if the "bad guy" is desperate enough they'd take on anyone with little to no regard for anything. No matter which way you go on this there's just about an equal probability that you're screwed. Do you find this valuable? |
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Braydonn |
6. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 8 2012, 4:50 PM EDT
I think that LWJ is spot on, it is all dependent on the environment you are in.Same with Loki, being neither a hard target nor a soft target is the way to go. I think that you should show enough force to not be considered an easy target, all the while not going overboard and looking like a G.I. Joe. Do you find this valuable? |
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IamSlowRide |
7. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 8 2012, 5:53 PM EDT
| Post edited: Aug 8 2012, 5:56 PM EDT
Well I am not on the fence, I say "Hard Target" I want you to know it may cost you a lot of blood and quite possibly your life and your friends lives if you f^ck with me and my team, that being said, my survival situation is primarily an urban one initially until the bug out journey begins once out in the country I would lighten up the tac gear a bit unless out on recon or security detail, once primary B.O.L. has been reached I'd move to 1st level gear only, jeans, t-shirt, boots, ball or booney hat, usgg cobra belt, g-code drop leg, 2 open top AR mag pouches, 2 open top pistol mag pouches, small survival kit, blow out kit.
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Will77 |
8. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 8 2012, 6:28 PM EDT
It's all about body language. It doesn't matter what your gear looks like. Predators can pick their victims out based on body language. The only problem I could see with tactical gear is that it might draw the attention of law enforcement.
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mr.jimborisin |
9. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 8 2012, 6:44 PM EDT
I would prefer to go tactical for a few reasons1. you look like a bad ass on few will want to mess with you 2. can probably carry more gear then a normal civilian look. 3. its what i'm used to and comfortable with. well thats it I guess :P Do you find this valuable? |
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LWJ2009 |
10. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 8 2012, 6:53 PM EDT
| Post edited: Aug 8 2012, 6:56 PM EDT
"I would prefer to go tactical for a few reasonsA chest rig does not a bad a$ make. Look like to much of a threat and you might end up a dead a$$. Being hardcore will not stop a bullet, and if I am low on supplies who says I might not shoot you for what you have. So walking around with 15 rifle mags, and 4 pistol mags might invite alot of problems. Esp if it is somebody like me who would smirk at you while I am waiting to ambush you. Do you find this valuable? |
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11ACRBlackhorse |
11. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 8 2012, 7:15 PM EDT
| Post edited: Aug 9 2012, 9:56 PM EDT
I'm with SlowRide on this.At all times everyone will be armed in one form or another. But outside the "wire" will be done always in groups in complete kit and load out, depending on mission requirements. Most predatory acts are on unarmed or perceived less armed (dangerous) people. And the tougher/deadlier the target looks the less likely the attack. I know what if they decide to shoot you first to get that cool gun. Well they better make it count, because my group will return fire. And if they are bold enough to attack a openly armed group. Your hidden pistol won't do squat for you when they want what's in your pack. So decide is it better to confront them with long arms or your hidden pistol with a few spare mags Do you find this valuable? |
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nightcreeper78 |
12. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 8 2012, 10:59 PM EDT
I agree with Slow Ride and ACR. I don't use tactical gear as an intimidation tool, it's more like a "tool belt"....for easy access to my gadgets of death and destruction. The fact that someone would be intimidated by my gear, would in fact make me suspicious of their intentions. If I were to encounter a stranger less equipped than I, I would expect them to be tense and ready in regards to their body language and posture, after all they don't know dick about me. Then there is confrontational body language, which if you know what you're looking for, is quite evident. Aproaching someone the wrong way can get both groups hurt or dead regardless of their gear. I'd also like to add that concealing your movements and proper use of cover, limits your team's chances of exposure to attack. Stay out of wide open areas, move at night(if it's an option), and avoid choke points that provides an enemy with an abush advantage. Having your team rely on stealth, proper movement and formations, proper counter ambush techniques, and immediate action drills, all with the option of balls to the wall effective firepower removes the enemy's capabilities if not their desire for random or premeditated shoot and loot. Do you find this valuable? |
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IamSlowRide |
13. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 9 2012, 3:15 AM EDT
"I'd also like to add that concealing your movements and proper use of cover, limits your team's chances of exposure to attack. Stay out of wide open areas, move at night(if it's an option), and avoid choke points that provides an enemy with an abush advantage. Having your team rely on stealth, proper movement and formations, proper counter ambush techniques, and immediate action drills, all with the option of balls to the wall effective firepower removes the enemy's capabilities if not their desire for random or premeditated shoot and loot."^This^ My thoughts exactly, it is always possible that an unforeseen encounter could take place, my MO is to move undetected through all environments if possible, through superior tactics Joe blow and his would be bandits would pass by unawares and if not, well if it comes to that they die. Do you find this valuable? |
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shadowmancer |
14. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 9 2012, 3:24 AM EDT
| Post edited: Aug 9 2012, 3:53 AM EDT
A non visable target. You cannot hit what you cannot see.It means I would choose the time of day I am out carefully. I would pay attention to my surroundings and make sure I have multipul bolt options. Too much weight would slow you down. Tactical gear also has an exp date so I would note how many years has passed since the collapse if i saw a "decked out tactical mall ninja type" passing by. Here is what a decked out tactical mall ninja guy may look like lol http://www.gunsforeveryone.com/this-week-in-tacticool-tacticool-reload/ or http://siren2k4.deviantart.com/art/Tacticool-Banana-100870245 or http://ytmnd.com/sites/264318/profile/c735578#c735578 or http://hueysgunsight.blogspot.ca/2011/08/my-samurai-glock.html or even http://beta.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=786090 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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IamSlowRide |
15. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 9 2012, 3:37 AM EDT
"A non visable target. You cannot hit what you cannot see.When my tac gear fails I will be at a point where I have most likely gone native, buckskin chause, breach clout, wolf hide mantle, longbow, long knife, tomahawk, war paint Do you find this valuable? |
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shadowmancer |
16. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 9 2012, 3:54 AM EDT
| Post edited: Aug 9 2012, 4:11 AM EDT
took awhile longer than I thought to find the pics i needed lol The second one is my favorite lol I just can't picture regular people in heavy tactical gear in a serious light. In some instances they would stick out like sore thumb. I think most would be worn, ill fitting and or salvaged. Tacticool types can't help but model their gear lol. It is the person behind the gear that matters in my eyes if you can't use something properly it is a hinderence not a help. (slow is NOT a tacticool type by the way). You can often tell the real from the poser. By the time they learn the proper use of their aquired or salvaged gear it will be fit for the scrap heap. I would observe the person, they would give away what they are by how the hold themselves and use said gear. I trust skillsets over gear. I was taught that it is the skill of the shooter that matters not the gun itself. Do you find this valuable? |
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11ACRBlackhorse |
17. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 9 2012, 4:15 AM EDT
"When my tac gear fails I will be at a point where I have most likely gone native, buckskin chause, breach clout, wolf hide mantle, longbow, long knife, tomahawk, war paint"Lol Me it don't matter what I wear and or carry. I look the same no matter what. A as$hole lol Do you find this valuable? |
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IamSlowRide |
18. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 9 2012, 4:17 AM EDT
| Post edited: Aug 9 2012, 4:19 AM EDT
"took awhile longer than I thought to find the pics i needed lol The second one is my favorite lol "Last link is bad, I just get an error message from AR15.com's website Do you find this valuable? |
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IamSlowRide |
19. RE: Soft Target or Hard Target
Aug 9 2012, 4:22 AM EDT
| Post edited: Aug 9 2012, 4:25 AM EDT
"LolYeah I too fall into this category, but damned if I won't look good while looking like an as$hole, f^ck'em if they don't like it...lol And don't think for a minute I won't have a necklace of ears and scalps adorning my spear point! Do you find this valuable? |