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SGTGerman |
A useful tactic
Jan 13 2010, 3:44 PM EST
| Post edited: Jan 13 2010, 4:33 PM EST
So we've talked about FIBUA (to some degree of sucess), what to do when ambushed (ages ago), the "firing line" used during the colonial wars etc and a few other odds and ends. However, lets just say you and your friend and being chased by a few roaming zeds. One useful tactic would be the "Pepper Pot" or "Fire and move". Its pretty much the basics for any soldier which involved one man firing whilst the other moves back or forth. Not only will you be popping more zeds faster, you will have better aimed shots since you are not running away blind firing like any others would. Do you find this valuable?
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PedroAsani |
1. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 13 2010, 4:28 PM EST
forth = forward motionfourth = between third and fifth. Do you find this valuable? |
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SGTGerman |
2. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 13 2010, 4:34 PM EST
"forth = forward motionLol. Thanks mate. I knew there was something wierd just couldn't work it out. Do you find this valuable? |
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PedroAsani |
3. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 13 2010, 5:05 PM EST
As to the technique, it is going to be difficult to truly describe this, and even harder to learn it via a forum. There is a reason military and police units spend time learning to do this over and over and over:At the point where the guy in the lead stops, turns, and covers the guy at the rear who is now running towards him, he is FIRING PAST HIS TEAMMATE at hostile targets. There is very little room for error, and mistakes can (have been and will be) fatal. Anyone wishing to learn military doctrine had better be willing to spend time running the drills properly, with an instructor. It is not something you can do just because you have seen in on tv, in movies or in the latest Rainbow Six game. Do you find this valuable? |
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Eritsukukun |
4. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 13 2010, 5:13 PM EST
"As to the technique, it is going to be difficult to truly describe this, and even harder to learn it via a forum. There is a reason military and police units spend time learning to do this over and over and over:As with all risk related skills. Do you find this valuable? |
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SGTGerman |
5. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 13 2010, 5:29 PM EST
"As to the technique, it is going to be difficult to truly describe this, and even harder to learn it via a forum. There is a reason military and police units spend time learning to do this over and over and over:Well I have done this, and its not that hard. The idea is you are spaced out a little. Yes it requires practice, like everything else said on here. Do you find this valuable? |
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timberrattler |
6. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 13 2010, 6:39 PM EST
I agree this would be a very useful tactic. Not only for zombies but also used against raiders. If you were involved in a standoff and wanted to get away without bloodshed this kind of team work would keep you from showing them both of your backs.Good content addition SGT! Do you find this valuable? |
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DevilNuts |
7. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 13 2010, 6:53 PM EST
It's called "bounding overwatch."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounding_overwatch Do you find this valuable? |
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herrteufelhund |
8. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 13 2010, 8:48 PM EST
To add to what Eritsukukun said earlier. This is the second most dangerous skill I teach and I would not let anyone even attempt this without practicing this skill hundreds of time dry, then slowly (over the course of hundreds of reps) allowing empty weapons, then adding live fire walking, then live fire running, until I would feel comfortable feel comfortable allowing students to do this full speed with live ammo. I'm not attacking anyone here but this tactic in a real situation with your blood pumping and you really are running and gunning, you will not be able to know how your partner(s) will run and unless you guys have practiced with a qualified instructor, with a real live fire training environment it will only be a matter of time before one of you shoots the other.
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John_234 |
9. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 13 2010, 9:18 PM EST
| Post edited: Jan 13 2010, 9:19 PM EST
Essentially, leapfrogging?I don't understand why it's a particularly difficult maneuver. Muzzle control and watching your target is just part of shooting. If you compulsively shoot without checking your sights, you shouldn't be on a team, period. A simple way to keep track of movement? Uh... I don't know... "Move!" "Moving!" Not saying it's a super easy skill, but assuming you obey the basic rules of firearms, it isn't any onerous task. Do you find this valuable? |
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PedroAsani |
10. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 13 2010, 10:23 PM EST
It's the shooting past your moving friend that makes it so difficult. If they step wrong, trip, they can end up in the firing line with disasterous consequences. If the guy shooting is not careful with his aim, he can kill the person he is trying to protect.
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timberrattler |
11. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 14 2010, 3:58 AM EST
herrteufelhund,In the here and now I wouldn't dream of doing this. Anything with an element of danger in the present should always be practiced with safety and training first. Inexperienced people in dangerous situations should never attempt something they aren't comfortable with. I work with a very combustable substance daily and have to follow a very strict set of rules and conduct to keep from harming myself or others. Rule #1 for me when I started my job was, ask my supervisor before I attempted anything I wasn't quailified to do. Which meant when I started out I had to ask for help on everything except wiping my butt. So I understand where you're coming from. That being said for us untrained civilians post-Z we will be flying by the seat of our pants and unless we have a professional like yourself we will just have to wing it no matter the outcome. Getting shot by your best bud would suck but so would a lot of things in zombieland. Do you find this valuable? |
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DevilNuts |
12. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 14 2010, 5:12 AM EST
I nearly got shot in the head at K5 in MCT; one of my fireteam decided to sprint with his finger on the trigger, trip and fall, eat sh!t and have a ND right behind me while I was in the prone. Saw a neat little chunk of dirt tear up not 12 inches from my face, followed by the instructor reminding him of correct safety procedures (through repeatedly smashing his face into the mud). Good times. Do you find this valuable? |
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SGTGerman |
13. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 14 2010, 6:37 AM EST
It depends who actually moves and the distance between them. We've always been well spread out when we've done this. Besides it like everything else - you start with the theory - then the "walk through, talk through" and then the practise.You start of without using any rounds. As long as you get the movements right then its not that difficult. Then again, even the best make mistakes. Maybe I or someone should do a proper diagram explaining this. I find it difficult to explain movements in words. Do you find this valuable? |
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AnimateBlade |
14. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 14 2010, 6:40 AM EST
I'd disagree with this being a useful tactic against zeds. For the simple matter that they are slow, scattered and will not respond to suppressing fire. I think that a smoke flare or just running forward generally cancels this tactic out.Against raiders... maybe. I think that if you've got yourself into a situation that this is your only option, you've *really* mucked up. Overwatch suppressing fire, or retreat using line of sight cover/lay of land would be far more beneficial. Do you find this valuable? |
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SGTGerman |
15. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 14 2010, 6:50 AM EST
"I'd disagree with this being a useful tactic against zeds. For the simple matter that they are slow, scattered and will not respond to suppressing fire. I think that a smoke flare or just running forward generally cancels this tactic out.But what if they are the faster zeds? This tactic allows you to withdraw and put down constant accurate fire. As you legging it, you can take down Zeds ta the same time. And what if you get caught in an urban area? Tight streets compared to the open fields. As for raiders well lets not get to hasty here - this is only the basics. You have to go a little more in depth to discuss attacking "ranged" foes like raiders. Do you find this valuable? |
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herrteufelhund |
16. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 14 2010, 8:33 AM EST
And like I said earlier I'm not slamming anyone, and I understand sometimes you just have to run and gun so to speak. My concern is based from my experience. I have seen several of LEO's and Military folks see something on TV or in a video game and just try to do it and end up with the dreaded ND with the end result being someone being wounded (thank god no one killed). I agree while if this was life or death survival situation you do what you need to do. My bemoaning of people who talk about tactics is because most people assume that they will just show up and clear a house or fight off raiders or do a peel ect and that without at least some training you or your friends will not survive the encounter. My goal as often as it is when I teach students is to get them to look at the big picture and to draw the line between what looks cool on TV and the reality of combat. I'm simply attempting to open a few eyes and maybe motivate some people to seek the training for the skills they are proposing to use. I will also apologize as I understand that I can come off as a know it all (wife calls it jack assery ). I just know how this can go and would not like to see anyone not make it because of a training error. I've upset a lot of folks who have been doing the sheepdog thing longer then I have but as I always say, "I'd rather you be upset with me but alive then you and me be on friendly terms but dead”. The bottom line here is and this is for all tactical movements anyone is thinking of using: Is your technique safe and does it make good tactical sense? If you can answer yes to both questions then you need to practice it, validate it and practice some more. And if it still works then you got a keeper otherwise scrap it. Do you find this valuable? |
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SGTGerman |
17. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 14 2010, 10:23 AM EST
"And like I said earlier I'm not slamming anyone, and I understand sometimes you just have to run and gun so to speak. My concern is based from my experience. I have seen several of LEO's and Military folks see something on TV or in a video game and just try to do it and end up with the dreaded ND with the end result being someone being wounded (thank god no one killed). I agree while if this was life or death survival situation you do what you need to do. My bemoaning of people who talk about tactics is because most people assume that they will just show up and clear a house or fight off raiders or do a peel ect and that without at least some training you or your friends will not survive the encounter. My goal as often as it is when I teach students is to get them to look at the big picture and to draw the line between what looks cool on TV and the reality of combat. I'm simply attempting to open a few eyes and maybe motivate some people to seek the training for the skills they are proposing to use.Nothing wrong with highlighting the dangers with these mate. At the end of the day 99% of the threads on here can be deadly if someone tries to enact what is said. So yeah nothing wrong with stressing the dangers Do you find this valuable? |
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NorCal_Survivors |
18. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 14 2010, 11:50 AM EST
"It's called "bounding overwatch."I always thought all "bounding" maneuvers were advances ... correct me if I am wrong. My preferred retreat is the "Aussie Peel": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_Peel Do you find this valuable? |
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SGTGerman |
19. RE: A useful tactic
Jan 14 2010, 12:07 PM EST
"I always thought all "bounding" maneuvers were advances ... correct me if I am wrong.Well it depends where the cover is. We mainly use that during ambushes so that we can move everyone back the way we came and have maximum firepower down on the ambushers. Still like I said, fire and move is just the basics. It gets a lot more complex than that but for people who are new to it its a good thing to have in mind. Do you find this valuable? |