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timberrattler	Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 11:07 AM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 23 2010, 5:00 PM EDT Here is my spin on raiders. In this world there are all types of men. In a world gone crazy there will be all types of raiders. I believe that there will be those among us with the skills who will begin to "hunt" thier fellow man for many purposes. To take their belongings being the most common and in the years to come even for the purpose of cannibalism. When I sit down and think about all the years of knowledge I've gained from hunting various animals I've realized that men although intelligent and crafty would be as easy to hunt as animals. A smart hunter/raider would set up near places like good ol' Wal Mart and calmly wait for non-zombie victims to come along. Places people would go to find food and drink would be no brainers. Anyplace typical of the usual areas that people would look to for scavenging would be ideal. Its said that an Apache brave could remain calm and still for hours waiting for the perfect moment to attack. Since they were often out-gunned they relied on stealth and patience to attack their foes. A hunter/raider would have to do the same. If I were to take this role I think my first target would be the dude with the most gear and the most dangerous looking weapons. Taking out anyone with the ability to reach out and touch me in my blind (the guy with the sniper or hunting rifle equipted with a scope) would need to be removed from the group as well. It would be a thinning out process that would begin with the strongest and make its way down to the weakest member of any group. This is far from anything that had ever crossed my mind as far as a plan but something I think about when I read most peoples theory on raiders. It will take all kinds to make it in a Z-poc and a hunter with talent and low morals could make a good living preying on survivors who hadn't a clue he was there until he started thinning the herd. Continued. Post reply 5 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: None
timberrattler	1. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 11:10 AM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 23 2010, 11:12 AM EDT 1) How would you deal with an individual or group of raiders who could remain hidden and strike without warning from a great distance? 2) Does this change anyones opinion on surviving by scavenging? 3) Does this change anyones opinion on wether to hole up or go nomad? Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
VagabondVance	2. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 11:22 AM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 23 2010, 11:23 AM EDT "1) How would you deal with an individual or group of raiders who could remain hidden and strike without warning from a great distance? 2) Does this change anyones opinion on surviving by scavenging? 3) Does this change anyones opinion on wether to hole up or go nomad?" Nice post TR; glad to see you "patched" back in : D 1) Try and make the distance greater, lay down fire and get out, regroup, re-formulate, recon and then strike. 2) Never, planned on scavenging a lot, and if I did it would be an area scouted out well in advance. 3) Nope, still staying put once I get to my BOL. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
timberrattler	3. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 11:35 AM EDT "Nice post TR; glad to see you "patched" back in : D" I wear my patch with pride and dignity. Its good to be back among my brothers and sisters. Even though they're all a bunch of crazy mother truckers. LOL! Post reply 5 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
VagabondVance	4. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 11:41 AM EDT "I wear my patch with pride and dignity. Its good to be back among my brothers and sisters. " I find this valuable, and just curious, how would you procceed with some fella shooting at you like in the this scenario? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
kinelta	5. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 11:45 AM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 23 2010, 11:52 AM EDT "1) How would you deal with an individual or group of raiders who could remain hidden and strike without warning from a great distance? 2) Does this change anyones opinion on surviving by scavenging? 3) Does this change anyones opinion on wether to hole up or go nomad?" 1.Maybe I should be the one that remains hidden and scouts out the area before I go sauntering into an area that I need to scavenge. And spend a few weeks doing it to find out who else is watching the place I want. I honestly don't know how to deal with a threat that I know nothing about though. I'm waiting to read for some ideas on that. 2. Yes. Alone, at any rate. But I also foresee that it will probably be something that needs to be done on occasion. I would just have to be prepared to do it. 3. It's not my plan to go nomad. My kids and I would be safer in a group. Preferrably the group with the most guns and the men to use them. :0 (Do you hear that your Imperial Majesty?) Of course that would change if it were a group of dumbasses and idiots. I'd be better off on my own in that case. Now I'll have to sit back and read the posts from those with more know-how than me. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Frag-12	6. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 11:59 AM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 23 2010, 12:06 PM EDT 1) How would you deal with an individual or group of raiders who could remain hidden and strike without warning from a great distance? Sometimes the best anti-sniper is another sniper looking for weapon discharge, the glare of the scope or rifle, movement, or nature if there is no noticeable weapon discharge, the scope\rifle are glare proof, and he\she is using a Ghillie or what ever suit to really break up their silhouette. So if I had an available sniper or snipers, I would use him\her or them. If I do not have a sniper or a well trained one, then I have three choices... 1) Sneak up on the person, some how, by going in the direction of where the shot came from. However, all good snipers will move. Either with the group or send a couple of the most stealthy. It all depends on the situation. 2) Destroy the area from where the round came from. However, not good for saving ammunition and hope luck is on your side due to the lack of precision. In addition, all that noise may attract the attention of the undead. 3) Disengage from the area. 2) Does this change anyones opinion on surviving by scavenging? I wouldn't want to survive by scavenging. Scavenging will be more of a luxury. Raiding will not be an option for me. Taking the fruits of war will depend. Scouting out any area of interest should always be done first by everyone and it probably should be a week long. You know, Apache patience. It all depends on the situation and if it is life or death; or luxury. Then again, perhaps the sniper moves in after your check and you started scavenging. So scout, set up perimeter, set up patrols, come prepared for any engagement and scavenging, and have an immediate get away plan. 3) Does this change anyones opinion on whether to hole up or go nomad? I believe you should keep both options open. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
timberrattler	7. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 12:01 PM EDT "I find this valuable, and just curious, how would you procceed with some fella shooting at you like in the this scenario?" Thats what I started this thread for to find an answer to this question from members with more knowledge about this kind of scenerio than me. Just off the top of my head I'd say don't let yourself get into a situation like this one. Scavenging to me is one of the most dangerous post Z-Day occupations. It sounds simple but it would be something you couldn't enter into lightly. Heading towards places that others would definatly think about opens you up to all kinds of dangers. If it was something I had to do I'd plan, plan, plan. Hopefully I wouldn't be starving at the time and I wouldn't have the powerful urge to eat clouding my judgement. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
timberrattler	8. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 12:11 PM EDT " In addition, all that noise may attract the attention of the undead. " Very good point. Sometimes I forget about all the friendly neighborhood zombies. A hunter/raider could actually use zombies to do his work for him. If a group was busy fighting zombies he could pick you off in the confussion. In the heat of battle with rounds going off all around you and your ears ringing from the noise it would be hard to pick up on where the snipers bullets were coming from. The chaos would leave our would be raider open to all kinds of mischief. He would however also have to have someone watching his back because of the noise he would be making. Post #6 had some good information and ideas in it BTW. Thanks. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Frag-12	9. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 12:11 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 23 2010, 12:15 PM EDT I think major scavenging will be a major operation, MajorDamage-like, to remain safe. Small item scavenging, like snagging an Alienware laptop, may be accomplished with two people (2 person concept) operating covertly disguised and smell like dead people (depending how the dead stalks its prey). Of course, that could go horribly wrong for them as well, that is why they have to remain covert. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Frag-12	10. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 12:23 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 23 2010, 12:27 PM EDT "In the heat of battle with rounds going off all around you and your ears ringing from the noise it would be hard to pick up on where the snipers bullets were coming from. The chaos would leave our would be raider open to all kinds of mischief. He would however also have to have someone watching his back because of the noise he would be making. " 1) Just remember, they detect snipers in the Middle East except sometimes they use a fighter\attack jet or a tank to take out the sniper ... lol Either the sniper will be working alone, or two person team (with a spotter), or with a larger group or in the relative proximity of a larger group (like in the same city but apart from each other). A good sign of a sniper present is how fast your guys are going down and where they are getting shot. In addition, do you have visible contact or no visible contact. Trust me, you will know. 2) You can assign a spotter with the sniper. A two man sniper team is going to be better than one. Again, two person concept. A spotter does more than just help the sniper target, he also covers their back. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Cypher9012	11. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 12:51 PM EDT Interesting Thread....nice one XD Reasons to hunt people: 1.) what they have 2.) to eat them 3.) sport No.1 is your typical raider variant, 2 is your typical post-apocalypse canniabal variant, and 3 is the psycho who hunts 'The Ultimate Prey' because there is no law and because they can. And trust me...there'll be a lot of people doing what they want because they can post-Z-day... (Did you know the Apache have been classed as the 'Ninja' of their day/environment? They snuck in nice and quiet like, slit the throats of the sentrys, started slitting throats on cavalry soldiers and only yipped and screamed like idiots if they were discovered in order to add to the fear and chaos of half the fort waking up to find the other half bleeding beside them.) The only real way I can think of to deal with an individual or group who are willing to sit 'at range' and pick you off one by one, is to keep them occupied while you deploy a flanking force (or two) to get round behind them and take them out...anyone else know of a better way? You can't let fear get the better of you. If I feared being shot by raiders post-Z-day I'd sit in my house till i starved, but I won't. I'll Bug-Out, and eventually end up scavenging what I can where I can...but cautiously...and with a good dose of paranoia!!! 2 Options: you either grow what you need = Farmer, or; you go primitive Hunter-Gatherer and follow the food and move around. Go back a few thousand years and that's essentially what most people were...either following a mobile food source across the great plains of the world or wherever, or farming a small area with a few domesticated/captured animals. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Frag-12	12. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 12:56 PM EDT "Reasons to hunt people: 1.) what they have 2.) to eat them 3.) sport " You forgot one, slavery Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	13. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 1:26 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 23 2010, 1:28 PM EDT 1) Stay hidden and counterscout. In the wars they always said that the most effective counter to a sniper was another sniper. Put THEM in a position where they need to run. If they take one of you QUICKLY booby-trap the body so that the next person to touch it gets a suprise. 2) Not overmuch. I'd have looked over the area long before I entered it. 3) Oh I'm holing up (in my own way which is a combo). A raider can lay in wait in that building all he likes. I don't have to go in. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
kinelta	14. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 3:37 PM EDT Does anyone think that to survive we will all be obliged to hunt others? Not just for the reasons offered above, but because it will come down to you being picked off by someone else, a most certain possibilty--at least if you're not fool enough to think that it won't happen to you. In order to preserve your own safety and freedom, you/ your group would have to hunt the hunters. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Frag-12	15. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 3:41 PM EDT "Does anyone think that to survive we will all be obliged to hunt others? Not just for the reasons offered above, but because it will come down to you being picked off by someone else, a most certain possibilty--at least if you're not fool enough to think that it won't happen to you. In order to preserve your own safety and freedom, you/ your group would have to hunt the hunters." There are evil people in the world. There are no reasons why they can not survive and continue to plunder. Unfortunately, I believe 1 or more of us will have to hunt the hunters. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
cyrano222	16. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 4:55 PM EDT Excellent scenario Timber. I have to respectfully disagree with most of you folks I was taught the best way to deal with a sniper is with arty, bomb the area flat no sniper. In that tradition I would if set upon by a sniper burn him out of his hide. He will leave and get him on the run, and if he doesnt make it well fresh meat. But scavenging is not on my to do list either I believe I am good in my area to sit back and live off the land. Provided there is no fire, flood, or act of doG. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
timberrattler	17. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 5:12 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 23 2010, 5:16 PM EDT "Excellent scenario Timber. I have to respectfully disagree with most of you folks I was taught the best way to deal with a sniper is with arty, bomb the area flat no sniper. In that tradition I would if set upon by a sniper burn him out of his hide. He will leave and get him on the run, and if he doesnt make it well fresh meat. But scavenging is not on my to do list either I believe I am good in my area to sit back and live off the land. Provided there is no fire, flood, or act of doG." If I've thought about it I believe others will too. The only difference between a sniper and a hunter IMO is that a sniper's prey can shoot back. Those with the proper training would be deadly and folks like me who don't know a guille suit from a leasure suit could still cause plenty of havoc with some planning and the proper tools. If you consider sniper vs. military trained soldiers you should also consider Joe Sixpack vs. Hunter Bob. Hunter Bob might not be highly trained but neither is Joe Sixpack. The common man can become pretty crafty when faced with survival of the fittest. Hunter Bob and Joe Sixpack might not be very fierce going into the first weeks of a Z-Poc but give them a year in the meat grinder (that a disaster like this would become) and they would turn into ruthless killers. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
MajorDamage	18. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 5:28 PM EDT I can sum that up in 3 words: never underestimate anyone Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Cypher9012	19. RE: Hunters of men. Apr 23 2010, 6:42 PM EDT Sorry...forgot Slavery XD Cyrano222 - Question: How do you burn a sniper out in an urban environment when you don't know which building he is in? And can you afford to burn down half the town you rely on for scavenging just to wipe out one sharpshooter? I understand that artillery is the preffered method for neutralizing 'Sneaky B*sterds'...but in a post-apocalypse world you'd have to adapt and change or die. Kinelta - I know people who would happily slit your throat for £20 and your mobile phone. Now imagine those people without the constraints of society, law and order? Watch the movie: 'Doomsday' and get back too me XD TR - The problem with Human Prey is they react differently to animals. Let's say you fire on a deer and miss, it will probably go crashing into the undergrowth and typically as it runs away it will follow the path of least resistance and end up following a trail...a human on the other hand may initially break through the underbrush away from you but after that you cannot be sure what their actions will be. They may run away, they may find a position and return fire, they may lie in wait for followers, or they may set fire to the brush and do a combination of the above. In other words: Animals are mostly predictable, while Humans are mostly erratic, irrational and crazy. Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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