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ViolentKisses |
The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 9:48 PM EDT
| Post edited: Nov 1 2010, 9:50 PM EDT
I don't wanna get to deep into politics on the wiki but I heard something today I thought a bit odd.I asked a friend, a republican his reasoning behind this years vote. Then I gave a prompt type question about the state economy expecting that to be his obvious go to response. Surprisingly he said he didn't really care on way or another on the economy and his #1 issue, the thing that held the absolute most important to him was gun rights O.o.... Now I'm definitely about responsible gun rights however I don't think of all the issues in our world today gun rights it would be my #1 and only deciding factor... Of all the issuses to consider. lol I just found this odd and a little funny what do you girls and guys think? :) Do you find this valuable? |
Carnack |
1. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 9:50 PM EDT
With the way the economy is going a gun might wind up being more useful.Not that I agree but I see the point. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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ViolentKisses |
2. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 9:53 PM EDT
| Post edited: Nov 1 2010, 9:57 PM EDT
9 Months of growth in GDP if thats any indicator. Though looking at GDP as a indicator for economic health is kinda what got us into this mess instead of looking more pressing issues of exports v. imports.Anywho... Unless I was one of those 2012 end of the world is COMING!!1 types I don't see gun rights as #1 issue. And even if it was I don't see handguns being banned outright by either party. Do you find this valuable? |
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Carnack |
3. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 9:56 PM EDT
| Post edited: Nov 1 2010, 9:57 PM EDT
"9 Months of growth in GDP if thats any indicator. Though looking at GDP as a indicator is kinda what got us into this mess instead of looking at exports v. imports.I'm seeing spending going up and government stepping in to "help" everyone. I'm seeing people become hooked on this help. I'm seeing a crapfest when the government overextends and takes back what it's given. Banning is against the Consititution. A Silk Lock is more likely. Do you find this valuable? |
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ViolentKisses |
4. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 9:58 PM EDT
lol your too quick to respond Carnack I like to edit my responses after I rough out an idea :3
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trophykiller |
5. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 10:03 PM EDT
gun rights are a HUGE deal to me, if not number 1. however, I'm not just gonna let some idiot in solely for that(ken buck is a nice example of that).
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ViolentKisses |
6. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 10:08 PM EDT
| Post edited: Nov 1 2010, 10:09 PM EDT
Yeah but this otherwise ((thought to be)) intelligent person is basing their entire vote on gun rights.It could probably be a openly neo nazi congressperson but if they were the only candidate with gun rights as a stance I bet he would vote for them XD Do you find this valuable? |
LJ126 |
7. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 10:08 PM EDT
| Post edited: Nov 1 2010, 10:10 PM EDT
There's a reason that one's right to self defense and the defense of each and every citizens' rights as a whole is so very important... let's swing this philosophically rather than politically!If you study most modern and "enlightenment" era philosophy, from Thomas Aquinas to Kant (and many contemporary philosophers), they pretty much universally agree that the only true right of any individual - regardless of level of civilization and society - is his right to self preservation by "appropriate means." Appropriate means, defined, means that you respond with an adequate level of responding force to preserve your safety (or the safety of another.) Too much force for the situation is unwanted, but too little force is worthless. This "self preservation" isn't merely limited to your physical well being; someone depriving you of the *means* to maintain your life is indirectly impacting your ability to preserve yourself. An oppressive government that deprives you of your means to life and liberty ceases to become functional, so it is your natural right to end the social contract and start a new, forged in blood and liberty. It's hard to preserve yourself and future generations without the tools to do so! That's why the Second Amendment and my right to keep and bear arms is important to me. Others may differ, but I believe that it is the duty of all American citizens to protect the liberties of all other peoples in our country, and anyone opposed to that concept is, in effect, an enemy to our constitution and country. Do you find this valuable? |
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trophykiller |
8. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 10:18 PM EDT
I don't like how harsh it is, but you're kinda right. In my opinion, people should be required by law to own guns(which the government hands out so people don't have to pay for it.)the places that have that law have unbelievably low crime rates). Do you find this valuable? |
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Carnack |
9. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 10:19 PM EDT
| Post edited: Nov 1 2010, 10:57 PM EDT
blankblankblank
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LJ126 |
10. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 10:25 PM EDT
"If you willingly shackle yourself and willingly kiss the feet of whatever master you choose it is not *my* duty to help you or protect you."So you are then, in effect, saying that freedom is only worthy to those who are in agreement with your personal opinions? That's pretty... authoritarian, maybe? Certainly not in the interests of liberty! Do you find this valuable? |
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Carnack |
11. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 10:34 PM EDT
| Post edited: Nov 1 2010, 10:54 PM EDT
"So you are then, in effect, saying that freedom is only worthy to those who are in agreement with your personal opinions? That's pretty... authoritarian, maybe? Certainly not in the interests of liberty!"blankblankblank Do you find this valuable? |
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LJ126 |
12. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 10:49 PM EDT
| Post edited: Nov 1 2010, 11:10 PM EDT
You're actually taking this to an almost inappropriate level Carnack; be warned, you're making this more political than philosophical in nature and I'm not afraid to shut it all down on those grounds. Let's keep this PHILOSOPHICAL, not directed towards some and not others.And my attempt to both answer and steer back towards philosophy... Nobody is asking you to fight for them - on the contrary, fighting is a LAST resort. Obviously, at some point, even the most passive will take arms if their interests and ability to live are in jeopardy. This matters not if they agree with YOU or ME on when or if this is required, because we all have different interests, and therefore different beliefs on where this point in time lies. There's where the line between politics and philosophy starts - where the line also ends here. Let's face it though, one law-abiding person can't be more free than another, since freedom is a social construct in and of itself, but I don't really want to get everyone lost on my ideas and perceptions of what freedom is.... Needless to say, it is both trite and illogical to want anything less than freedom for all, equally, regardless of their ability or motivation to serve it to themselves. Basically - Liberty is only experienced by all; it cannot be had by some and not others. Now, if firearms were ONLY used as tools of oppression, one *could* develop a very different opinion of them, but that's not the case in all situations. It matters more of how the tool is being used, rather than what the tools are. Do you find this valuable? |
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LJ126 |
13. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 11:20 PM EDT
PS: It's HARD to be impartial, fair and non-political on this topic, but it's even harder to explain entertain a philosophical viewpoint AND maintain administrative control (make sure it doesn't get out of context) over the conversation! Sometimes this A badge is a b!tch!Carn, I'm not picking on you, I'm trying to keep it PC and appropriate. I don't want you to think I'm jumping down your sh!t for no reason, because in a lot of ways I agree with your position, just minor differences that I'm entertaining from a different perspective. Its rough! :) Do you find this valuable? |
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Carnack |
14. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 11:24 PM EDT
| Post edited: Nov 1 2010, 11:25 PM EDT
Edit: Never mind. Not important.
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AlexHigginbotham |
15. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 1 2010, 11:24 PM EDT
"Now I'm definitely about responsible gun rights however I don't think of all the issues in our world today gun rights it would be my #1 and only deciding factor... Of all the issuses to consider. lol I just found this odd and a little funny what do you girls and guys think? :)"Depends on what you think is important. I don't mean to sound like I'm bad mouthing you, but gun rights are important to me for 2 reasons. 1) The constitution. Doesn't have to be gun rights. Any issue involving the government wiping it's metaphorical ass with the constitution becomes EXTREMELY important to me. Letting them take it away little bit by litte bit, weather that specific issue involves you or not, will only lead to total government control. 2) The right to own guns is essentially the right to fairly defend yourself. Gun laws don't effect criminals, so by creating more, you are only taking the guns out of the hands of the law abiding citizen. If guns were completely outlawed, the only people who would own guns would be criminals. Do you find this valuable? |
jdi35 |
16. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 2 2010, 12:16 AM EDT
i think this little passage will speak for itself......Police aren’t required to protect you: In Warren v. District of Columbia (1981), the D.C. Court of Appeals ruled, “official police personnel and the government employing them are not generally liable to victims of criminal acts for failure to provide adequate police protection . . . a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular citizen.” In Bowers v. DeVito (1982), the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled, “[T]here is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen.” if the cops can't/won't protect you, it falls to you and yours to do so Do you find this valuable? |
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AlexHigginbotham |
17. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 2 2010, 12:38 AM EDT
"i think this little passage will speak for itself......At the same time, gross cases could get a lot of people charged with criminal neglect. At the same time, they don't get paid to prevent crime, they get paid to solve it. They could sit and watch you get stabbed to death, as long as they were able to figure out who did it and punish them accordingly then they did their jobs. Such a disgusting way to look at it though. Almost makes me sad. Do you find this valuable? |
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jdi35 |
18. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 2 2010, 12:54 AM EDT
"At the same time, gross cases could get a lot of people charged with criminal neglect.Tell me about it, alex. i've heard of 1 instance where a town was going under and to relieve some of the financial stress it was under, they got rid of the fire department instead of the cops. this story came from Shallnotbeinfringed on youtube, pretty informative on the corruption of the govt. actually, if you can stand the constant F-bombs.... want some more factiods, go here.... http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=18&issue=003 Do you find this valuable? |
BigLoki |
19. RE: The Issue of Gun Rights
Nov 2 2010, 1:24 AM EDT
Which is worse? Getting rid of the fire department all together, or allowing this?http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/04/firefighters-watch-as-hom_n_750272.html There are instances where the police protect who they choose, and neglect who they choose also. It has been like this since there have been governments to put people in place over you for "your protection". Who "polices" the police? The answer is: ta-da, the police...hahaha. If you have read any "BIg Brother" type stories, of looked at any force arrived new government, or wondered where rebels generally come form, they usually begin with the government disarming their people. In Japan they banned swords, in SEVERAL places guns were banned by all but the government since they reached mass production. I could say more, but it would end up very political, and I think that is attempting to be avoided a bit. Do you find this valuable? |
