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Discussion: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!!

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SovietPrince	Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 6:25 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 6:25 PM EDT Hey all ZSDW members. As you all know, this is a site with many international members. And in my time here, I've gained a great respect for Canadians and British people. It corrected the opinion I got from playing against them over the net. But, more and more, the questions that pop up online involve legality of firearms in both of these countries. The laws in each country restrict them from a large percentage of handguns, as well as many "tactical" weapons. Canada, does not have as heavy a restriction. One member here has even demonstrated to me that they can have 30 rnd STANAG's, it simply requires eliminating some type of restriction mechanism. Now, the UK... man, you guys let the laws slip right through your grasp. Which, I kinda do blame the people for that one. HOWEVER!!! You guys can still redeem yourselves.(lol.) Listen, I hope I don't come off as a snobby american that thinks i can bring my laws to your country or anything, but hell... any country that you might live in(assuming its one that won't get you killed for protesting, lol) You guys still have a chance to convincing your governments to loosen grip on firearms. If even the ban on handguns were lifted, it'd be good enough for the UK. Canada, you guys already are allowed to have guns, but hell, you gotta have licenses to do it and theres no REAL ak you can buy. I'd like to see that change. and for any other person in a different country.. all it takes is to start a political movement. YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND YOURSELVES. Oh and Canadians, try to get those self defense laws repealed so you can actually defend yourselves =) The world still has a chance of firearms freedom. We're about to go to war with our own gov't because they wanna take our guns away. You guys still got time. Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: None
SovietPrince	1. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 6:26 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 6:26 PM EDT i had a bit of humor with this. but in all seriousness, I'd love to see the british or the canadians speak up about their concerns for personal safety. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
randomknife666	2. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 6:30 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 6:30 PM EDT "i had a bit of humor with this. but in all seriousness, I'd love to see the british or the canadians speak up about their concerns for personal safety. " To be honest, I'm fine with licensing, but in my opinion, our self defence laws need to change, and they should un-ban the AK, because there was no real reason to ban it in the first place. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
SovietPrince	3. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 6:36 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 6:36 PM EDT "To be honest, I'm fine with licensing, but in my opinion, our self defence laws need to change, and they should un-ban the AK, because there was no real reason to ban it in the first place." THIS Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Markthegenius	4. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 6:42 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 6:42 PM EDT If we were always allowed guns here in the UK, i don't think it would be such a problem. However, if they were legalised now, it would be a big problem. I can tell you for a fact that there are hundreds of thousands of young thugs in this country who would get a stiffy as soon as they heard that guns were being legalised. They wouldn't just be walking round knifing each other, they'd be shooting each other. We have a huge knife crime problem as it is. A higher percentage of Chavs would get a gun than the average, law-abiding person in this country. We don't have the culture set up for it, it's as simple as that. It would be too big a change. Right now, many criminals can get guns. If they were legalised, ALL criminals would be able to get guns, and yet more people would become criminals after buying a gun. Personally, i would love to have the legal right to own a gun, i really would. I would prefer it if i was born into a country where owning a gun was the norm, but i wasn't. I'm sure that, for the "honeymoon period" atleast, gun crime would soar. Then maybe people would get used to it and it would level out. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
PedroAsani	5. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 7:05 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 7:05 PM EDT See, I have many points on this to argue. The first is that I see no issue with needing a license to get a gun. However, this should have several key tenets. 1) A weapon should be allowed by default, not denied 2) The weapon should be permitted regardless of type. This includes explosives and even nuclear material 3) In order to be licensed, you need to be qualified in the use of the weapon 4) You need to provide adequate storage for the weapon 5) A violent criminal record revokes your ability to be licensed permanently 6) Mental incapacity revokes your ability to be licensed until you are assessed capable Reasons for these: 1 and 2) Every person has a right to defend themselves, and police/government arguments that "we are the (only) ones who do that" are atrociously naive and condescending. 3 and 4) Every person has a responsibility of due care to those around them. Just because you have the right to have a gun doesn't mitigate the responsibility to make sure you don't accidentally shoot your neighbour because you, for example, used it to make holes in your wall (because you couldn't find a drill). I wish I had made that up, but it actually happened. 5) Violent criminals should not be allowed weapons. Duh. Rehabilitated criminals still don't get weapons. They ruined their chance. Tough crap, off you go. 6) Neither should crazy people. But if the crazy goes away (for certain) then they are now sane, and should be judged as such. 3) You need to be taught how to drive before you can use a car on your own. So why not a weapon? They are both machines with the capability to kill. And if you are spending a couple of hundred on a handgun, or a few thousand on something with a bit more kick, then £150 on a two or three day range course is a good idea. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
SovietPrince	6. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 7:07 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 7:07 PM EDT "If we were always allowed guns here in the UK, i don't think it would be such a problem. However, if they were legalised now, it would be a big problem. I can tell you for a fact that there are hundreds of thousands of young thugs in this country who would get a stiffy as soon as they heard that guns were being legalised. They wouldn't just be walking round knifing each other, they'd be shooting each other. We have a huge knife crime problem as it is. A higher percentage of Chavs would get a gun than the average, law-abiding person in this country. We don't have the culture set up for it, it's as simple as that. It would be too big a change. Right now, many criminals can get guns. If they were legalised, ALL criminals would be able to get guns, and yet more people would become criminals after buying a gun. Personally, i would love to have the legal right to own a gun, i really would. I would prefer it if i was born into a country where owning a gun was the norm, but i wasn't. " your country was better off before they illegalized them all.... Now, what I'm talking about, this is something that you guys have to push for. I think that, if some licenses were put in(which could bring in revenue for the gov't) then they might be more thoughtful towards legalizing at least some guns. restrict anyone who's ever been in trouble with the law from having one and you're set. We have young thugs here too... You know what our Law enforcement has done to them? Arrested/shot/convicted them. And especially in the south... you know what happened the last time that there was a ganggun threat at my school? THe cops got to bring out their AR15's and AKM's.. yes, my local PD stocks AK's. They also enjoy showing off their sniper gear. ROFL. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
whitefang10	7. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 7:14 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 7:14 PM EDT I agree, law abiding firearms owners need to stop whining and start doing something about the ridiculous laws that restrict their right to protect themselves. Start writing letters to parliamentary members, don't give the antis an inch. We have started fighting back in Australia and it's working. Get your right back! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Sharpie41	8. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 7:14 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 7:14 PM EDT "To be honest, I'm fine with licensing, but in my opinion, our self defence laws need to change, and they should un-ban the AK, because there was no real reason to ban it in the first place." Dude....wtf Creepy, thats what I think too Un-ban all guns Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	9. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 7:15 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 7:15 PM EDT Explosives and nuclear material? Really? Why not? A weapon is a weapon is a weapon. The difference is coverage, lethality and effect. But see number 4? Adequate storage. You want some C-4? Then it needs to be stored in a place where, if it goes off, nobody is going to get hurt. So it won't be kept at home. Nuclear material? Well, there is the crux of the matter. When you have a list of weapons that people can have, and "government only" weapons, then the governments will try and move that line. But by making it so that you can obtain everything if you follow the requirements, the line no longer exists. All that matters is that the requirements follow the Harm Principle and keep the public safe. So you want some nuclear material? Better be able to show you have the training to handle it safely, and the place to store it where no-one can be injured or killed. Considering the space needed to avoid a nuclear blast and the resultant fallout, only the billionaires of the world would be able to put together a setup to accomodate it. So the legislation upholds the ideals, ensures the responsibilities and safeguards everyone as much as it can. Post reply 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
SovietPrince	10. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 7:17 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 7:17 PM EDT "I agree, law abiding firearms owners need to stop whining and start doing something about the ridiculous laws that restrict their right to protect themselves. Start writing letters to parliamentary members, don't give the antis an inch. We have started fighting back in Australia and it's working. Get your right back!" rock n roll AUSSIES! Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
PedroAsani	11. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 7:18 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 7:18 PM EDT "I'm sure that, for the "honeymoon period" atleast, gun crime would soar. Then maybe people would get used to it and it would level out. " And that honeymoon period is precisely why they will not legalise handguns in the UK. And I would agree with a complete ban on them, if the only people who ever got shot were criminals. Yet I always make sure that when I ride the Underground in London, I am wearing my "I am NOT A Brazilian Electrician" T-shirt. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	12. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 7:20 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 7:20 PM EDT "your country was better off before they illegalized them all...." Actually it was no different. Few people owned handguns, so the ban affected almost no-one. The biggest impact was on our Olympic shooting team, who now have to go out of the country to practice with handguns... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	13. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 7:22 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 7:22 PM EDT "Now, what I'm talking about, this is something that you guys have to push for. I think that, if some licenses were put in(which could bring in revenue for the gov't) then they might be more thoughtful towards legalizing at least some guns." Not just revenue for the government from licenses, but an entire industry centering on the training and testing. Not to mention the import/export, manufacture, and sale of weapons. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Carnack	14. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 7:23 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 7:23 PM EDT "Explosives and nuclear material? Really? Why not? A weapon is a weapon is a weapon. The difference is coverage, lethality and effect." Are you on something P? 0_o There are very few things one would need an explosive for and a huge percentage of those is job related. There is no logical reason for private citizens to have explosives outside of a work setting. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
whitefang10	15. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 7:24 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 7:24 PM EDT "The biggest impact was on our Olympic shooting team, who now have to go out of the country to practice with handguns..." So wait, you can't even own a handgun for target shooting??? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
FrankLeeDeRainged	16. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 7:41 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 7:43 PM EDT It will be a cold day in hell before Britain relaxes any laws. The former labour government was averaging 3.5 new laws a week for their entire ten year stint in office. But we're citizens now, apparently. . . . citizens live in republics - 'least that's what I believed, so has the queen, of her duties - or her head, been relieved, cos if we had a revolution - the Beeb would have said, for the first time in four hundred years - the monarch's lost her head. so I'm having trouble working out - how come quite suddenly, I'm supposed to be a citizen - were a fking monarchy, were subjects of Elizabeth - the second, till she croaks, the crown is the authority - the politicians evoke. it's the fking power - in their bloody stupid law, like your citizens fkin charter - God knows how many more, I once heard on the radio - an its all I bleeding know, all these laws are costing us - thirty thousand quid a go. another time I watched a guy - from Whitehall sit 'n say, said if laws solved any problem - we'd have paradise today, massaging the media - an manufacturing consent, bleeding white the people - they're supposed to represent. the crown prosecution service - will they all soon resign, they cant go trying citizens - or just their name be redefined, that's what it all come down to here - fking about with names, an don't dwell on what they are charge us - to play these silly games. the facts are quite apparent - so its time that we confront, the overwhelming evidence that - they are a sack of cts, the schemes of architects - of the fking the state were in, we are citizen of bulls**t - from the republic of spin. Thank you, good night. _ Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Sharpie41	17. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 8:00 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 8:00 PM EDT "So wait, you can't even own a handgun for target shooting???" Thats the only reason us Canucks can own handguns. And no they can't at all Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Markthegenius	18. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 8:08 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 8:14 PM EDT "See, I have many points on this to argue. The first is that I see no issue with needing a license to get a gun. However, this should have several key tenets. 1) A weapon should be allowed by default, not denied 2) The weapon should be permitted regardless of type. This includes explosives and even nuclear material" Woah, are you actually, seriously saying that anybody (other than the obviously excluded, such as criminals etc) should be allowed to own explosives and nuclear marerial? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PedroAsani	19. RE: Time to Stand up Canada/UK!!! Jun 3 2011, 8:51 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 3 2011, 8:51 PM EDT "Are you on something P? 0_o There are very few things one would need an explosive for and a huge percentage of those is job related. There is no logical reason for private citizens to have explosives outside of a work setting. " But there are no real reasons as to why having a handgun, a shotgun, a rifle are legal in the US, but exposives are deemed niche. It's the same "guns are bad" argument as in the UK, just with the line drawn in a different place. In order to make the law logical, you need to remove the line, because it is arbitrary, political and skewed by personal preference. If the laws are there to protect the public, and not force a politicians opinion onto people, then all the law should do is protect the public and no more. I know it sounds crazy at first, but look at weapons as a whole. They start way low down. Bows and air guns, then handguns, shotguns and rifles, up through RPGs and grenades to nuclear missiles. And really, what is the difference between them? Because it isn't objective. The objective of all these weapons is to kill the target. The only differences are the projectile, payload, area of effect and type of effect. All weapons are one. And drawing an arbitrary line through the list simply allows the argument that the line is arbitrary. Make all weapons legal, since you can't make all weapons illegal. A rock can be used as a weapon. A fork can be used as a weapon. What are you going to do, ban tableware? Make all weapons legal, but focus on the responsibilities instead. The responsibilities of a handgun are far less than a nuclear missile, because the semantics are different. Post reply 8 out of 9 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?

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